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Thread: If you hate someone, you hate yourself?

  1. #1 If you hate someone, you hate yourself? 
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    think this could be the right subforum. i read this quote and dont really understand it:

    "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." - Hermann Hesse

    so if someone kills a loved one of mine, and i hate him for it, i actually hate myself for.. apparently having the same desire to kill?

    but if i don't have that desire, which i think i don't have, i could NOT get disturbed by the killing and so i actually would NOT hate the killer?

    dont get it.


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  3. #2  
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    Try less extreme example, you'll get it.

    Check out the religion subforum and read between the lines. What is going on there? Individuals are projecting what they believe to be plausible mental states onto other individuals, and attacking those projections. How do we generate these projections? Of course it's all modeled internally, within the self.

    If someone does something you find despicable, you know the motive truly bad by imagining yourself formulating it. In other words a little bit of that person is in you. How could police function without deep empathy for the criminal mind?

    The hated model may actually live as active component of one's own mind, under wraps so to speak. We hold inner debates, that may polarize. For example one has a thought that is "wrong" but there is something to it that won't give up. At some stage polarity may render inner debate disturbing. In this case we rather play out the debate by externalizing it. Like trolling into the religion subforum. Over-extension in this case is known as fanaticism. Then you might arrive at extremes, like killing.

    I suspect the origin of this human weakness is in parenting. A parent builds an inner model of the child, including the child's mind.


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    Forum Masters Degree organic god's Avatar
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    or just don't waste your time trying to understand social "sciences" a lot of what they say is not definite and the experimental methodology is riddled with flaws.
    everything is mathematical.
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  5. #4 Re: If you hate someone, you hate yourself? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123456
    think this could be the right subforum. i read this quote and dont really understand it:

    "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." - Hermann Hesse

    so if someone kills a loved one of mine, and i hate him for it, i actually hate myself for.. apparently having the same desire to kill?

    but if i don't have that desire, which i think i don't have, i could NOT get disturbed by the killing and so i actually would NOT hate the killer?

    dont get it.
    Look at it another way. You have a family member in a dangerous society. You know it is dangerous and on the edge.

    What were you doing for your family member? A member that you like, you enjoy having around, in these times of disaster?
    Probably nothing, but every now and then enjoying some time with them. Exchanging favors.
    If it is not leading both of you to higher goals, for yourselves, your friends, your community, your country, and God. Are you really losing a beloved family member? Or just a comfortable acquaintance, a business arrangement?

    The person that killed your family member, really just highlighted to you that you were not such a good friend to the one you lost.

    It could have been a heart attack, due to misunderstood proper nutrition. It could have been a car accident due to poor engineering in the car. It could have been a soldier or terrorist. It could have been a doctors misunderstanding of medications your family member is taking. Mislabeling of chemicals. Misused or misunderstood pesticides or chemicals on your vegetables. Or just stress knowing all these things could take you out silently, from the darkness of ignorance.

    From a lifetime of not being able to get to any of the people that are killing you, and your family members everyday. Slowly silently, from the eerie darkness.
    You are suddenly presented with a sacrificial lamb. Put into spot light for all to see. And to slaughter you go.
    They yell to you he is the one. He did it. They say they have witnesses, proof he is the one.
    He covered all your tracks for you. He probably fit a profile that has had him under pressure his whole life. He was already punished for the crime he would commit.
    Once you take him out, you cover the tracks for everyone else on earth. Ha-ha. Ha-ha. Ha-ha.



    Sincerely,


    William McCormick
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  6. #5  
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    ^dude...

    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Try less extreme example, you'll get it.

    Check out the religion subforum and read between the lines. What is going on there? Individuals are projecting what they believe to be plausible mental states onto other individuals, and attacking those projections. How do we generate these projections? Of course it's all modeled internally, within the self.
    huh? so a christian who "hates" an atheist, is actually mad at himself for also being partly atheist? thats what the saying sais, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    If someone does something you find despicable, you know the motive truly bad by imagining yourself formulating it. In other words a little bit of that person is in you. How could police function without deep empathy for the criminal mind?
    this is what i figured. that you can only feel hate for something if you try to relate to it. but you feel hate because you judge/think differently than the hated model. that makes you a different person than him, so what you hate is not really in you. the desire in the hated model to perform an action that you hate, is not in you.

    and the saying sounds like hate is a misplaced feeling at all times. like, using your police example, its wrong a cop hates a criminal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    The hated model may actually live as active component of one's own mind, under wraps so to speak. We hold inner debates, that may polarize. For example one has a thought that is "wrong" but there is something to it that won't give up. At some stage polarity may render inner debate disturbing. In this case we rather play out the debate by externalizing it. Like trolling into the religion subforum. Over-extension in this case is known as fanaticism. Then you might arrive at extremes, like killing.

    I suspect the origin of this human weakness is in parenting. A parent builds an inner model of the child, including the child's mind.
    here you seem to describe a path the model walks in becoming the hated, instead of why i would hate myself really instead of the model.
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  7. #6  
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    123456, you have to think about it in terms of me/us vs. them/the_world. What are one's aims in life? What do we perceive as threats to those aims? How do we delude ourselves and how do these delusions help or harm us?

    Hate is a very generic term. It is used for many sets of feelings that have different causes behind them, of which one is probably as alluded to by your quote.

    "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." - Hermann Hesse
    I think the quote might be interpreted in two ways. One is that we are only disturbed by things that have an impact on our lives or that are within our reach, like seeing someone being assaulted on the street or even on the TV and in movies.

    The other one is that we are disturbed by those things in others that we can identify in ourselves and do not like.

    I think it is probably the first one. So that would include everything from killers and rapists to a**holes and competitors.

    We hate killers and rapists because they are threats to what you regard as your group or tribe. The feeling of hate is actually advantageous in this instance, because it can serve as motivation to get rid of this threat, which in turn strengthens your group.

    We are also constantly, subconsciously and consciously, engrossed in a battle for status. You develop aversions to those you regard as your competitors in this battle. That is also some of the reason behind why we are jealous of others and why jealousy of someone else's possessions or status can turn into hate.

    We also tend to empathise with those in our group and can develop strong dislikes against those that are perceived to trespass against them.

    Everything has some connection to the social nature of humans.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    I think the quote might be interpreted in two ways. One is that we are only disturbed by things that have an impact on our lives or that are within our reach, like seeing someone being assaulted on the street or even on the TV and in movies.

    (= We also tend to empathise with those in our group and can develop strong dislikes against those that are perceived to trespass against them.)

    The other one is that we are disturbed by those things in others that we can identify in ourselves and do not like.

    I think it is probably the first one. So that would include everything from killers and rapists to a**holes and competitors.
    it sounds like the second one to me, actually. cause the saying sais 'you hate something in him that is part of yourself'. so something you and the hated model have in common. someone being assualted, even if you like/love the person and so consider the person "part of yourself", is not "part" of the hated model.

    so thats why im asking; is it true you always have something in common with the one you hate/dislike? it sounds strange.

    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    We are also constantly, subconsciously and consciously, engrossed in a battle for status. You develop aversions to those you regard as your competitors in this battle. That is also some of the reason behind why we are jealous of others and why jealousy of someone else's possessions or status can turn into hate.
    jeaulousy could be a third explanation of the saying. you hate someone for achieving something you can't. but wait; the achievement is part of the hated model, not of you. its only the desire you share. but people don't hate eachother for having same desires. so jealousy doesnt seem to be the right explanation.
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  9. #8  
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    so that’s why I’m asking; is it true you always have something in common with the one you hate/dislike? it sounds strange.
    Well, if he meant the second one, then I certainly don't agree with him. It sounds strange, because it is nonsense.

    Jealousy is just a part of our social nature. We are jealous, because we want those things for ourselves to elevate ourselves to a higher perceived position in the hierarchy or it just makes life easier. In both cases your plight in this world is perceived to be positively affected by you acquiring the object of your jealousy. Your "hate" for the person that possesses this thing is advantageous in some cases, because, again, it acts as motivation for you to acquire it, which in turn mostly strengthens your chances in life.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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  10. #9 Re: If you hate someone, you hate yourself? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by 123456
    "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." - Hermann Hesse
    This is true when taken in a general sense. You cannot fully comprehend the actions of another if you are not capable of generating those same actions internally. The suggestion that you also hate yourself for being able to do this, however, is indeed nonsense. It's a valuable and evolved mechanism for mirroring and analyzing the actions of another. That said, most people today have poorly developed mechanisms and can generally come across as naive or blatantly incorrect when it comes to human psychology.
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  11. #10  
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    I don't think you can say that as a rule everything we hate is a projection of something inside us.

    But there are many instances where we do have tendencies to do that.

    And nowhere more so than in a close intimate relationship of the opposite sex!

    Quite often if you see something in another you dislike and you stop before condemning to see if the same thing exists within you, or has done in the past, then you will usually find it does or has.

    Yeah cuss the tosser that cuts you up but can you honestly say hand on heart that you never have?

    It's much easier to condemn something outside ourselves than what's inside.

    That was the whole reason and purpose of the Scapegoat. A person who in tradition ritually accquires the sins of others and is then cast out.

    It's a form of redemption.

    People just love slagging other people off, but they don't look at themselves to see if they are the same. More often than not they are subconsciously projecting a part of themselves they would rather disassociate with and cause another to have so they are able to condemn it and make themselves feel better and bigger than the person whose foibles they are magnifying.

    The problem with that type of behavior when it lies unconscious, is that it tends to only give temporary relief and repeats on itself again and again and again because it panders to the ego and never gets to the root cause, unless the person suddenly wakes up and takes a long hard look in a mirror.
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  12. #11  
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    Lucid! No wait - how do I know that?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
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  13. #12  
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    "If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us." - Hermann Hesse
    lame general statement..vague and open to interpretation...I've heard similar sentiments from my grandparents....
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  14. #13  
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    i don't think so, i would have said that you hate for that part of you that is missing, its just jealousy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    How could police function without deep empathy for the criminal mind?
    Exactly. The police are a bunch of criminals chasing down other criminals.
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    With your extreme example, hating yourself technically still applies. If someone kills someone you love, you have to deal with incredible anguish and loss, this is what I'm assuming is a part of yourself that you hate. So it doesn't really apply in the way the quotee meant it to, but I believe it has something to do with an emotional bias. If your boss doesn't treat you with the respect you find would be fair, shrugging it off and returning the same amount of respect would be better than hating him/her for it. Holding hate for someone causes a hindrence to ones charactor. Sinics usually have a lot of hate for a lot of people for things the sinic cannot control, therefor the problem (what they really hate) is with themselves. Having a loved one taken by murder involves much more complex emotions and confusions than hate. Just my opinion.
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  17. #16  
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    so if someone kills a loved one of mine, and i hate him for it, i actually hate myself for.. apparently having the same desire to kill?
    Disregard the the separation of subject and object. Simplify first. ;)
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