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Thread: Is you parent your best friend?

  1. #1 Is you parent your best friend? 
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    Is it me or is it a coincidence that when parents emphasise what great 'friends' they are with their children/child that these 'children' are nearly always the ones who are behaving not just as a parent the their own parent (by this I mean dominant or as a carer, counselor), but are a little ahead of their peers when it comes to how they spend their free time. Such as having sex early, drinking alcohol early, staying out late etc.

    The 'friendly' parent feels comforted that their friendship enables the child to inform them (to their knowledge) of everything they get up to. They feel confident no secrets are kept as the stories told are extreme so what else could possibly be hidden? How bad could it possibly be?

    At least they KNOW their child is taking drugs and sleeping around.

    I can't help but feel these 'friends' have missed the point somewhat.

    Being a parent is not about being best friends with your children, it's about raising children to the best that they can be for themselves and also so that they are honest, decent, productive, healthy citizens who can contribute to the world's growth both spiritually and economically.

    Now many of us now know that this is best achieved in a loving, encouraging, positive environment rather than an overly strict dictatorial one. But for some it has to be either , or. They can't seem to find a happy balance, a nice medium in which to encourage respect and a healthy attitude towards life without either being one extreme of parent or the other.

    What say you?


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  3. #2  
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    My parents are my Nemesises


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  4. #3  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanuka
    My parents are my Nemesises
    Yeh we know that
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  5. #4  
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    Ha ha ha ha OMG What a topic

    Here she goes again............

    THE EXPERT!

    Your shoulders must be sagging under the weight of all those heavy chips on it!

    Your poor kids! I bet they are barked at squashed crushed shaped and moulded to fit your warped ideals. What a shame. Be careful ToR this crushing perfection could all blow up in your face one day when they tell Mummy where to get off!

    Read ToR's blogs if you want to know anything about anything and be completely confused, become completely narrow minded and prejudiced and buried under tabloid style gossip and opinions
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    My parents r not much friendly with me just OK but i share everything with my elder sister.
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  7. #6 Re: Is you parent your best friend? 
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    We want our children to grow powerful.

    Being chummy doesn't help. Being authoritative doesn't either. Children grow up when they have freedom to grow up. They have to claim this on their own. Eventually we have to just tell children "you can handle this" and leave the picture. We have to trust them and let go.

    Quite often my son asks for guidance and I refuse to give it. I tell him he's a smart fellow and can make up his own mind. And he does! And this makes him powerful.
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  8. #7 Re: Is you parent your best friend? 
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    The reasons I have deleted this post is due to malicious activity from another user on this and several other forums -

    http://z8.invisionfree.com/DYK/index.php?showtopic=645

    Many apologies for having to do this, but this person has behaved very threateningly in a way i can only describe as worrying!
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  9. #8  
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    Haha, I find that kind of parenting, at least in my case led to a few years of believing myself far more intelligent than my parents though. What do you do if your kid always makes bad choices?
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by i_feel_tiredsleepy
    What do you do if your kid always makes bad choices?
    Except for damning consequences or an idiotic child, nothing: they learn from their mistakes. Parents quietly pick up the pieces and say, "Try again."

    I'm giving my son a scary-sharp pocketknife for his 7th birthday. While there's a slight chance he'll permanently sever finger nerves, owning the tool is sure to grow his grey matter in any case. It's a short blade so I won't have big pieces to pick up.
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  11. #10  
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    The reasons I have deleted this post is due to malicious activity from another user on this and several other forums -

    http://z8.invisionfree.com/DYK/index.php?showtopic=645

    Many apologies for having to do this, but this person has behaved very threateningly in a way i can only describe as worrying!
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    He's one of those deliberating kids who just doesn't have accidents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    I'm giving my son a scary-sharp pocketknife for his 7th birthday. While there's a slight chance he'll permanently sever finger nerves, owning the tool is sure to grow his grey matter in any case. It's a short blade so I won't have big pieces to pick up.
    Make sure the tyke doesn't take his pen knife to school. He's liable to get suspended, considering the weenies that run the schools these days.
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  14. #13  
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    The reasons I have deleted this post is due to malicious activity from another user on this and several other forums -

    http://z8.invisionfree.com/DYK/index.php?showtopic=645

    Many apologies for having to do this, but this person has behaved very threateningly in a way i can only describe as worrying!
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    He's one of those deliberating kids who just doesn't have accidents.
    I hope so!

    I don't know If I would let my son have a knife yet.

    He's still at the teenage hormonal stage of learning to control his feelings and anger and I would be afraid he would lose his temper and do something he might regret!
    Yeh he can fuck 12yr old girls but he can't peel a potato.
    second thoughts
    I guess you're right, 13yr olds fucking 12yr olds while wielding knives are not a good combo.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    He's one of those deliberating kids who just doesn't have accidents.
    I hope so!

    I don't know If I would let my son have a knife yet.

    He's still at the teenage hormonal stage of learning to control his feelings and anger and I would be afraid he would lose his temper and do something he might regret!
    Yeh he can fuck 12yr old girls but he can't peel a potato.
    second thoughts
    I guess you're right, 13yr olds fucking 12yr olds while wielding knives are not a good combo.
    I didn't realise you could be so nasty ToR

    Sounds like you need to get rid of that bitterness and anger.

    You do more harm to your self than the person you are directing it at

    You should try to offload it in a more healthy and constructive way.
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  18. #17  
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    Wouldn't it be nice if Theoryofrelativity edited her post, and then (Absum!) edited the quote.

    The ball's in your court ToR.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    He's one of those deliberating kids who just doesn't have accidents.
    I hope so!

    I don't know If I would let my son have a knife yet.

    He's still at the teenage hormonal stage of learning to control his feelings and anger and I would be afraid he would lose his temper and do something he might regret!
    Yeh he can fuck 12yr old girls but he can't peel a potato.
    second thoughts
    I guess you're right, 13yr olds fucking 12yr olds while wielding knives are not a good combo.
    I didn't realise you could be so nasty ToR

    Sounds like you need to get rid of that bitterness and anger.

    You do more harm to your self than the person you are directing it at

    You should try to offload it in a more healthy and constructive way.


    What part of what I said wasn't true?

    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!

    And why not? If my son hopes to get lucky and takes a condom just in case he does I think the foresight in protection is commendable!
    .
    Here (and in rest of that post) you indicate your 13yr old having sex is ok as long as he uses protection. Most adults are aware no older girl would look twice at a 13yr old boy, thus his likely sex target will be under his own age, ie 12.

    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!


    I don't know If I would let my son have a knife yet.

    He's still at the teenage hormonal stage of learning to control his feelings and anger and I would be afraid he would lose his temper and do something he might regret!
    Here you indicate you don't trust your son with knives due to his temper which he hasn't yet learned how to control.

    Thus my comment, old enough to have sex, but not old enough to peel a potato.
    And my observation - violent child with knife wanting sex with underage girls not good combo.

    Thus the only insult here appears to be relating to the potato.

    Personally Selene, I don't think accusing your son of not being able to peel a potato is the WORST insult in the world.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Wouldn't it be nice if Theoryofrelativity edited her post, and then (Absum!) edited the quote.

    The ball's in your court ToR.
    Pong, I don't think you have been following the 'story' very well have you?

    Have you not noticed the nasty little snipes Selene aka Absum, lupa, Minxy has been making? She is oblivious to her actions so I suppose others being oblivious is of no surprise. let me bring you up to date with of course the reason for her nastiness...the fact I ignored her pm. I ignored her as I consider her to be a liar and fantasist and don't want anything more to do with her.

    Her pm read as follows, note the glowing compliments she pays me compared to the insults that now litter this board.


    From: Absum! To: Theoryofrelativity Posted: Tue Jul 01, 2008 11:38 am Subject:

    It's Selene

    Hi ToR

    Blah blah...............

    I have to say there are some very nice people I have met through here (inc you), who i stay in touch with, but they are very few and far between. Most are too annoying for words, and I would rather limit my dicussions down to those who are worth chatting to!

    Blah blah blah

    ToR, it was nice meeting you on here, hope everything goes well with your blogging and writing. I found your site interesting and funny. You should send some stuff off to a publisher?

    (Minxy, Selene.... etc etc)


    I've cut out large chunks of text here.

    Her response to being ignored has been thus:

    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Ha ha ha ha OMG What a topic

    Here she goes again............

    THE EXPERT!

    Your shoulders must be sagging under the weight of all those heavy chips on it!

    Your poor kids! I bet they are barked at squashed crushed shaped and moulded to fit your warped ideals. What a shame. Be careful ToR this crushing perfection could all blow up in your face one day when they tell Mummy where to get off!

    Read ToR's blogs if you want to know anything about anything and be completely confused, become completely narrow minded and prejudiced and buried under tabloid style gossip and opinions
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    OMG!

    I might have known who would have started a topic on this subject

    THE EXPERT

    You are a strange one ToR

    On one thread your spouting morals and tightly crossed legged opinions

    And the next you're asking people stupid questions like this

    How old are you?

    What on earth are you playing at?

    Or is this just an elaborate way to Spam and advertise your blog sites yet again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Good grief ToR

    That really is some kind of attitude and opinion you have got there.

    Try raising your head from the gutter

    You might possibly see some light?
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Well ToR

    I wonder how on earth you managed to have children yourself

    Any guy that ever came anywhere near you must have been scared off with you screaming RAPE!

    As for parenting, which you seem to have much opinion about but little clue...........

    I do sincerely hope that your kids have someone other than you they can talk to about sex.

    You have a habit of jumping to such hasty opinions based on little evidence but pre-determined prejudice and narrow-minded speculation......

    You consider yourself to be an expert and an authority on such matters because you write blogs about it, but i have read some of your blogs and they demonstrate a severe lack of insight and appear to be simply the ramblings of a dissatisfied woman with a chip on her shoulder without the capacity to think very hard or deeply and come across as regurgitations of small minded prejudices........

    Have you ever considered offering your writing talents to the Daily Mail?



    Don't be surprised if you discover your children going elsewhere for unbiased and rational advice on sex
    Now then Pong,

    You will note, I have not made any personal flame to Selene, most her snipes have been ignored as they are after all irrelevant.

    But as she now seems to be playing the 'victim' card (because I accused her son of not being able to peel a potato), it is time to address the balance with some facts.

    Now I am on off on holiday.... be good children :wink:
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Pong, I don't think you have been following the 'story' very well have you?
    I "follow" plenty. I anticipate. Both of you. That's creepy if you believe it, huh?

    I can't help you two out. Pong's a science forum member not a counselor. I'll just say, I think you're good people who could do better than this toxic waste.
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  22. #21  
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    I'll just say, I think you're good people who could do better than this toxic waste.
    Hear hear
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  23. #22  
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    The reasons I have deleted this post is due to malicious activity from another user on this and several other forums -

    http://z8.invisionfree.com/DYK/index.php?showtopic=645

    Many apologies for having to do this, but this person has behaved very threateningly in a way i can only describe as worrying!
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  24. #23  
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    The reasons I have deleted this post is due to malicious activity from another user on this and several other forums -

    http://z8.invisionfree.com/DYK/index.php?showtopic=645

    Many apologies for having to do this, but this person has behaved very threateningly in a way i can only describe as worrying!
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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    I close to my dad though i share everything with my mom too but dad is mine best friend.
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  26. #25  
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    Quote Originally Posted by nricklee
    I close to my dad though i share everything with my mom too but dad is mine best friend.
    I'm glad to hear that nricklee

    Your mum and dad should be your friends. Your mum and dad should be someone that you don't hesitate to go to when you need advice, support and even fun!

    Some people seem to take a hard line approach with their kids of I'm the adult your parent and your the child and you do as I say.

    Now that formula is ok when children are very young because they need those boundaries and rules, but that shouldn't mean you can't be friends and be able to talk about stuff.

    When children get older this approach works less because a young person needs to to be able to practice seeing themselves as a future adult and be given more responsibility and the boundaries and rules should be flexible enough to accommodate this

    Some parents are afraid to do this and keep the rules and boundaries tight and rigid. To such an extent instead of becoming a benefit they begin to strangle the growing child. This is when you are likely to get a rebellious teenager who attempts to break those shackles with aggression.

    Basically it boils down to trust. Strict parents don't trust their children and think that if they aren't bound tightly in rules and regulations then they will become wild untamed and unruly, which is utter rubbish. They are more likely to become wild and unruly by being shackled so tightly.

    The underlying message a parent is giving to the child under these conditions is 'I don't trust you' and you are 'incapable of making the right choice' without my guidance direction and discipline.

    This in fact does a lot of harm, especially in the future, when the child becomes more independent and desires independence and needs their parents trust.

    I think the best gift a parent can give a child is trust, and especially a growing trust in their own choices and judgments.
    This gives the child a sense of responsibility and more importantly confidence in themselves in their capabilities to make the right choices.

    Now ToR gets hysterical at the slightest mention of sex, condoms and teenagers and seems to have visions that border on a Hieronymous Bosch painting!

    I find this amusing, but also quite scary. Does she really imagine this to be the case?

    Because although my son have a fantastic SOH and enjoys tucking a condom in his pocket and giving me a wink on the way out.
    I know without a shadow of a doubt (and so does he!) that it is unlikely he will come across a young girl willing to have sex, but if he did, he would be as nervous as hell and it probably wouldn't happen.

    But more importantly I know that he is a kind-hearted conscientious soul who is considerate about the well-being of others and how they are feeling.
    I also know my son is highly conscious of his age and is very aware and responsible in his outlook.
    How do i know this and how can I be confident this is the case? Because I know my son well on many levels because not only have I been a parent but I've also been a friend he can confide in. I have also loosened the reigns on many occasions and allowed him to discover his own freedom in reaching his own conclusions and making the right choices.

    ToR seems to have the idea that all young boys are sex-starved potential sex offenders and all little girls are innocent and potential rape victims.

    Sex offences happen, but only in very small cases with individuals with psychological problems.

    Young girls are not always the innocents we like to imagine and some are very aware of their sexuality and the power it can have from a young age.

    Let's give young people some credit here and have faith in our teenagers!

    I know from working with young adolescents how painfully self conscious they are and how sensitive they are to doing the right thing.

    Adults shouldn't restrain them in shackles and there has to be some kind of supervision. But you can't watch and supervise them 24/7 sometimes they will be in situations where they will have to use their own judgment. And they should have been able to experience and practice that in a safe environment from a young age and build up their confidence in themselves.

    A good parent should have the capacity to give as much as possible to their children and this includes mental, emotional and spiritual well being as well as a friend they feel safe to talk to on top of all the rules, boundaries and guidance that gives a platform for all the other benefits.
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  27. #26  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!

    Here's hoping he get's to use them creatively, as he's only 13 of course (you keep saying he's younger ToR (?) is that subliminal in order to give your arguments more welly?)
    No, never once said your son was younger than 13, said the girls he hoped to fuck most likely were as no one older would be interested.
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  28. #27  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong

    I can't help you two out.
    It's really nowt to do with you.

    I was merely providing you evidence required to establish that there was no requirement for me to alter any of my post.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    I'll just say, I think you're good people who could do better than this toxic waste.
    Hear hear
    I will second that


    ToR - tell me...how can you have insulted someone who doesn't feel insulted by your remarks?

    On the contrary it makes me laugh, and i am not saying that to rile or 'insult' anyone.

    I find it extremely funny and amusing when certain people become so overwhelmed with their own sense of importance and the superiority of their belief system that they lose the faculty of humour and the ability to take things with a pinch of salt.

    I mean surely you people have used the internet in various places long enough to know what it can be like?

    Surely you realise the futility of 'insulting' anyone you barely know anything about?

    And more to the point------SURELY you cannot be insulted by a remark from someone who doesn't even know you?

    Yet people come close to the point of fanatical hysterics about such things.

    Do you know the harm you are doing to yourself by becoming upset and angry?

    You are not hurting the other person by raising your own blood pressure and causing chemical changes in your body in response.

    You do have a choice in these matters?

    Instead you choose to hurl insults and nasty replies and then when they come flying back you start to cry about it.

    If you can't receive as much as you give then don't do it.

    Do what i do instead and laugh about it.

    Develop a thick skin.

    Yes i have a warped SOH with some people and find their OTT reactions funny so i keep re-lighting the flame. The joy here is in their inflamed answer back!

    I am not annoyed or angry at your reply.

    I am amused at how seriously you take your-selves with it and the indignation you display and your attempts to get one-up and then when you don't, you start to grizzle about it.

    I love it.

    Be as creative and insulting as you can and make me laugh.



    Lots of waffle here centering on word 'insult' I never said I felt insulted. I said you made 'insults'. Which is the correct description of what you wrote, just as your earlier comments in pm represent compliments. I was equally unimpressed by your compliment, it had no value just as your insults have no value. They are just words to describe the context of your post.

    Meanwhile you are 'projecting'.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  30. #29  
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    For those that lack good comprehension skills and think 'not being best friends' means being dictatorial let's look again at the original post.


    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity

    Being a parent is not about being best friends with your children, it's about raising children to the best that they can be for themselves and also so that they are honest, decent, productive, healthy citizens who can contribute to the world's growth both spiritually and economically.

    Now many of us now know that this is best achieved in a loving, encouraging, positive environment rather than an overly strict dictatorial one. But for some it has to be either , or. They can't seem to find a happy balance, a nice medium in which to encourage respect and a healthy attitude towards life without either being one extreme of parent or the other.
    What say you?
    A best friend parent is someone who lazily lets the child 'do as they please' in the hope of retaining favor. In all parenting shows as seen on TV, the worst behaved children are the ones with no structure, no discipline and no boundaries. They adore their lazy parents but have zero respect for them or for anyone else. When the parents are taught to 'parent' the love remains solid but a new peace and respect is achieved. This can be done without 'the strap'.

    Visit a prison and ask any inmate about the relationship they had with their parents. It will be one extreme or the other and little in between. It's the inbetween parents should strive for.

    Meanwhile, in reality when wayward 'do as you please with mommy's blessing' teens grow up and realise they made some bad choices, the first person they will blame will be their parents for not giving them clearer boundaries.

    Good real life example:
    Mom let her son choose his comprehensive school, one that all his pals went to.
    This was a crap school, son did not do well.
    This person informed me he blamed his mother (not himself) for the fact he did not do well. He said she should have been firmer and sent him to that better school down the road. His poor mum would be aghast to hear such a thing. She was a lovely woman but her own son felt she failed him.

    This 'blame game' is not uncommon.

    When children become adults, they look back on the role their parent played in all things that they do and their influence and where that influence led them.

    I often read quotes from famous characters from history who will reiterate 'wise sayings, phrases, anecdotal stories' passed to them by parents as cautionary tales, which the child bore in mind when choices were being made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!

    Sex offences happen, but only in very small cases with individuals with psychological problems.

    .
    For someone who claims to have been raped multiple times by numerous men and NOT believed by police when it was reported (the police instead believing you encouraged them) this response is somewhat contradictory to your own personal experience.

    With regard to kids and sex, I knew of many sex offences when I was a child myself. It is common depending of course on the parenting the sex offender rec'd when it came to respecting others, themselves and general adherance to societal rules. It had nothing to do with psychological problems and everything to do with what was considered acceptable and normal.

    There was a word for molesting young girls in gangs at school - Debagging.

    It involved pinning the young girl (usually one of the shorter, fragile looking ones) to the floor and feeling in her knickers, entering her from behind and the front. This took place in the playground, while the girl screamed, cried and tried to escape. No action was taken, none was sought as this had become a 'norm' given the lack of boundaries of those concerned and the girls understanding of what was acceptable and not.

    I was fortunate to have avoided this sexual assault, perhaps because I had a brother with a mighty reputation that they were afraid of. But I saved a few friends from it too, with a swift kick to the bollocks of any boy attempting to drag my friends to the ground.

    I had a 15yr old tell me a while back, that a pal of her pinned her down and stuck his finger into her anus. He did it often. I asked her is she liked it, she said no. It was done against her will. I asked her if she knew this was assault, she said no. She thought it was just him having 'fun'.She said everyone did it. She didn't like it but accepted that sometimes her friends did this to her.

    This boy was someones son as too were all the boys who were regularly involved in debagging girls. No doubt many of whom believed their kids told them everything and that allowing them freedom meant they could do what many adults can't do easily and that is restrain themselves and properly manage that freedom.

    An adult male told me a while ago that his brother once forced a screwdriver up into his anus. He was about 13, his brother about 18. I asked if he regarded this as assault and he replied that while he screamed and cried it saw it as his brother 'just having a bit of fun'. This is what happens when you tell kids that underage sex and touching is ok. The water gets muddy.

    Kids can't apply boundaries to themselves easily. If adults find it hard how is a child to manage it?

    Teaching children to respect themselves and others begins very early and wishing them well while they trot off at age 13 to persuade a 12yr old girl to have sex, when the 12yr old girl possibly doesn't even know they have a choice given the liberal attitudes of some parents is irrisponsible and is why we have so many sex crimes taking place that are neither reported or punished because the children involved have no clear idea as to what is 'normal'.

    Children should understand that their bodies are 'theirs' and that no one, adult or child can take, touch what is theirs. The guidelines they have are to protect them from abuse from adults or other children and to ensure they do not themselves abuse others. Teaching them that some touching is ok with some people and not others is confusing as a child cannot draw the boundary. Thus parents need to draw it for them.

    When I was 15, I knew a boy of 14 who had sex with his 8yr old sister. This was very common knowledge. Not sure whether the parents knew but as mum was having sex with a 16yr old boy while her husband was in the other room, and other underage kids were having sex (publically) in another room, it would appear that the reason her son was molesting her daughter was that her own sexual boundaries were non existant.

    Who is at fault here, the incestuous 14yr old or the 'best friend' parent?

    I do not share Selenes naivity that sex crimes are rare, as I am someone who people confide in, so I am hopeful that whatever it is in me that enables a stranger on a train to volunteer their life story enables my children to do the same, but that is not my aim as a parent. My aim is to help them to make wise choices so there is really not that much to tell.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    never once said your son was younger than 13, said the girls he hoped to fuck most likely were as no one older would be interested.
    OK I'd like to address that.

    ToR's said a few times that a boy of 13 won't have same-age or older girls ...playing... with him. Because they won't take him seriously.

    That last statement is true in my experience. They didn't take me seriously. That was why they were comfortable trying sex with a 13-year-old boy not some leering older dude. Girls at that age are psychologically years ahead of their classmates. My role there was basically socially clueless plaything. No harm done to anybody.

    ToR, I know you didn't mess with guys until relatively late. Now, I can clue you in on what some of your girlfriends were doing with guys so young. They were practicing. They were learning to get attention, manipulate, and effectively own a male. Even learning to climb the ladder. In that endeavor, sex is a tool. It really doesn't matter if the test subject AKA "the guy" is manly & experienced. In fact that can be a liability. What's wanted is a pliant fellow whose head can be turned, and perhaps can be made to beg too! It's a game, and all the players are girls. Apparently you missed it. Now you're *how old?* and learning from Cosmopolitan.

    I thought before, ToR, you were a canny woman habituated to maintaining an edge over the opposite gender. I was mistaken.

    I've kept in touch with some of the girls I played with. They've secured their life-mates and have kids of their own now. I figure I was part of the learning process, as they were mine. It was fun and healthy, everybody knows the game inside and out so to speak. Those who didn't learn to make love, just walk blind into commitments, they play games even as adults. That's a really dangerous thing to do with your life, your partner's life, and your children's lives. In my opinion.
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    You really do assume too much Pong.

    Nothing in your assessment about me is correct. It's funny to read though.

    Meanwhile, your ego is getting the better of you if think your early fumbles in any way contributed to those females future sexual happiness. When a woman finds a man who makes her tick it's like 'BOOOOM' it's not like she thinks, 'oh that fumble I did with little timmy is really paying off here'. Awww bless

    Meanwhile no gal worth her salt would look at a 'kid' when I was a teen. They were all into older boys and grown men. Girls who toyed with boys were generally not 'cool' and were best off keeping it quiet and thems the facts Pong. So if the big girls played with you I can assure you they never boasted about it. Which is why of course it was unheard of when I was a gal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Nothing in your assessment about me is correct.
    What have I said that's incorrect? I'm adding nothing you haven't said yourself. 19 right? Anyway I think it fair to say I can better assess the motives of teen sex, since I was in the loop while you were not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Meanwhile, your ego is getting the better of you if think your early fumbles in any way contributed to those females future sexual happiness. When a woman finds a man who makes her tick it's like 'BOOOOM' it's not like she thinks, 'oh that fumble I did with little timmy is really paying off here'. Awww bless
    Experience means nothing 'cause sexual dynamics are like BOOOOM?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Meanwhile no gal worth her salt would look at a 'kid' when I was a teen. They were all into older boys and grown men. Girls who toyed with boys were generally not 'cool' and were best off keeping it quiet and thems the facts Pong. So if the big girls played with you I can assure you they never boasted about it. Which is why of course it was unheard of when I was a gal. Wink
    Not my experience at all. My peer girls made quite a production of their (stage-managed) love lives. I confess that while girls wanted to play Soap Opera, boys that age (including yours truly) wanted to play Dungeons & Dragons. There are economic reasons why girls learn to sell themselves physically, and they do begin to practice young too. You must understand that. Western girls do not just develop in castle towers to suddenly go BOOOOM when the right guy comes knocking. They take the initiative. They get in the face and work the crowd. They prepare for the real thing. Because success in this is critical to many women. It's a kind of career.

    Your insistence that any young gal worth her salt must prefer older boys and grown men... is creepy. Especially creepy when coupled with your insistence that rape of much younger girls is normal schoolyard activity, like all the boys do it 'cause that's the normal way for kids to have sex. The only way boys get any sex, apparently. So you're saying any young gal worth her salt likes creepy older dudes? And the girl's heart goes BOOOM when he (and buddies ) fuck her in the alley? I dunno, ToR, I just can't make your puzzle pieces fit. Could you please explain the normal sex lives of teens as you see it?
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    Pong

    I do wish you would NOT state I have said things I never said, your last post is littered with inaccuracies. I never said anything about girls experiencing Boom sex in alleys with multiple boys for example. Neither did I express that any of the things I mentioned were acceptable to me. What I did was explain they were acceptable to THEM and my concerns re that. BIG DIFFERENCE.

    Meanwhile.........

    I was a virgin till 19 but I wasn't inexperienced till 19, unless of course you are one of those guys who's sexual performance purely consists of intercourse? Lying back and letting someone put a cock in you really doesn't take much skill and certainly requires no practice!

    With regard to your opinion that you can better assess the motives of teen sex, since you were in the loop while I was not, is a classic example of me writing the bare minimum and you filling in the gaps yourself. I was in the loop and still am.

    As I said before, the attitude in my generation at that time was underage sex was for slags. And sex with underage boys was for for those who were better keeping quiet about it for fear of being laughed out of school. These are the facts. In my school the girls who had sex with you would have been ridiculed..greatly. This is not an opinion Pong it is a statement of fact, as you are struggling with the difference between the two. My reporting of a set of 'norms' does not assume my agreement with them.

    Re your unfamiliarity with BoooooooooM sex. I think the problem here is that for you your sexual experience in terms of experimentation was mainly aquired as a kid, thus limited! But you are unaware of how limited as you've progressed little since. I may be presuming here, but as you do it, thought you should get a taster of it yourself.


    Let me explain BOOOOOOOOM sex and why little Timmy is irrelevant.

    You can be with a prude with limited imagination and skill and not know what you are missing for years and then find someone more on your wave length and it's like BOooooooMMMMM. If you had experienced BOOOOOOOOOOOOM, you'd understand. It's mind blowing sex where you take imagination and creativity and variety to new heights and share the same pleasures, fetishes, kinks. There are no moments of boredom, disappointment, feeling dissatisfied.

    Little 13yr old Timmy has no influence on this type of sex as it is purely about the two involved at that time and how explosive they are together. These things cannot be transfered to subsequent partners as the experience with each individual is unique to them.

    You cannot have BOOOOOOOOm sex with every partner, it either works and then works better with practice or it doesn't ever get beyond mediocre as you're just not compatible in that area. Meanwhile you can't ever know what BOOOOOOOOOM sex is till you've had it. It's explosive, it's often, it's desired continuously. It's the 'can't keep hands off each other' cliche. It's the stuff some dream of and others live. I live it.

    I am very lucky in that regard. I didn't need a little 13yr old Timmy to help me achieve that and am certainly not worse off for waiting till I had the body, the imagination, the knowledge, the maturity, the confidence to know what I want. I was never lousy in bed, those tentative fumbles were not a requirement.

    You said something about 'waiting for right guy' to come knocking. This is where you presume too much Pong. Do you think I was married when I first had sex? Your presumptions lead you to pointless conclusions Pong.

    BOOOOOOm sex is about pleasure not emotional commitment.

    Re what I said about school molestations and girls preferring older guys, I was reporting the facts, not stating an opinion. Girls still prefer older guys to little boys.

    I think Pong you are out of date with what kids are doing today and what they were doing in your day. Hence your naive idea that it's all sweet harmless fun with no casualties.

    The casualties are those who grow up not knowing the difference between consenting sexual acts and none, as I detailed in my earlier post. They can be perpetrators of sex crimes or victims of it as a result.

    Meanwhile to correct you once more on one of many inaccuracies regarding what you claim I wrote, I never said the girls at school were raped. I said they were felt inside their knickers...fingers Pong not cock and I also said I wounded severely the boys I observed trying to perform this molestation so I was far from accepting of it. The point I was making was that THEY saw it as normal, hence no reports and no expulsions. This was many years ago and I know it has only become worse since based on what other young people tell me.

    You see Pong, I am in the loop, whereas you are in naive 'it's all good in the garden of underage sex' la la land.

    This is a dangerous naivity as you can't advise your children properly when you have no idea at all of what is actually taking place in terms of sexual encounters.

    You ask me what teen sex incorporates these days:

    Kids are more aware now of what they can do sexually, they are exposed to graphic porn via TV and the Internet, parents may control what is seen in their home but not in others. We just had magazines, these kids see animal porn, S&M, torture, rape sex the works. Kids being kids want to try it all. ALL is quite a bit more extreme compared to what we knew about when we were kids.

    If you want 'play sex' for your underage daughter to include being tied to a bed and having sex, while her male pal records it on his mobile phone for later distribution amongst his pals, then go on with your underage sex is harmless fantasy.

    Things have moved on Pong. Play sex isn't just a furtive fumble in the dark anymore.

    What was this thread about again?
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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!

    Here's hoping he get's to use them creatively, as he's only 13 of course (you keep saying he's younger ToR (?) is that subliminal in order to give your arguments more welly?)
    No, never once said your son was younger than 13, said the girls he hoped to fuck most likely were as no one older would be interested.


    You have a vile mouth and a filthy mind!

    I don't suppose you were brought up in a strict Catholic household were you by any chance?
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    I was in the loop and still am.
    Fair enough. And you're obviously more up on what's hot today than I am.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    the attitude in my generation at that time ... not an opinion Pong it is a statement of fact ... a set of 'norms'
    You are reporting the conditions where you grew up, what you know. However this pornographic nightmare you describe just doesn't match the greater world. I'm sorry. Understand that where I am, most kids are Asian born or their parents are from Asia. So sex is not a mind blowing issue to get our panties twisted over. Depends on the subculture of course. I also knew a lot of Italians and Portuguese at school who were positively frantic to do dirty (as they coloured it). Anyway practically all sex among teens was limited to couples, albeit experimental couples.

    On the other hand that was back when Michael Jackson still looked cute and Cyndi Lauper had a fresh message, so norms will have changed a bit. The steady influx of kids from ...China, recently... is probably a conservative influence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    your unfamiliarity with BoooooooooM sex... If you had experienced BOOOOOOOOOOOOM, you'd understand.
    Your subjective experience has no bearing on mine and the immature boasting proves only dumb conviction your experience must be superior. I can't argue with that. Enjoy your godlike sexual powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    I didn't need a little 13yr old Timmy.. I was never lousy in bed, those tentative fumbles were not a requirement.
    Then you're gifted. A kind of sexual idiot savant?

    Most people are really awkward in the beginning. There's a long learning curve. Contrary to your insistence it's unnatural and unnecessary, girls and boys do experiment. And more important (IMHO) than the physical aspect they learn what sex is and isn't. How it affects them and others emotionally & socially. They gain perspective. It's something people acquire by direct experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    You cannot have BOOOOOOOOm sex with every partner, it either works and then works better with practice or it doesn't ever get beyond mediocre as you're just not compatible in that area.
    Well I'm convinced you don't have a clue, girl. It works or it doesn't?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    BOOOOOOm sex is about pleasure not emotional commitment.
    You do realize you're talking like a kid?

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    The casualties are those who grow up not knowing the difference between consenting sexual acts and none, as I detailed in my earlier post. They can be perpetrators of sex crimes or victims of it as a result.
    Agreed. Finally!

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    This is a dangerous naivity as you can't advise your children properly when you have no idea at all of what is actually taking place in terms of sexual encounters.
    And yet (back on topic) you scorn parents who lend an easy ear to their children. So how can you know? Are you some kind of secret agent? Sneak around their chatlogs?

    I agree we want to know what they're doing. But if we don't respect them, we are damaging our own children and destroying trust.

    I get the impression you are looking for the worst among your daughter's peers. Then you forbid your daughter to mingle with those losers, stay out late, etc. And you give her this incredible motive not to tell you!

    What's gonna happen?
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    Pong you are so funny.

    I never wrote about BOOOOOM sex as if it was exclusive to me. Neither did I say all my sexual encounters were BOOOOOOM (for me at least) I was just trying to explain for you what I meant by BOOOOOOOOOM! I referred to my own prowess as you were insisting that furtive fumbling as an underage teen was totally relevant to sexual prowess as an adult, I was demonstrating that this is not the case as great sex is dependent upon the person you are with there and then.

    Re that prowess and my lack of need for furtive fumbles well I approached sex the way I approach everything new. I learn all I can about it first. I bought THE most popular sex manual at the time (still a virgin) which was a rare thing to do at the time and needless to say it was borrowed by a lot of my pals once they knew of it's existence! That gave me a good heads up. Dispelled myths, fears and lack of knowledge. All that was required then was to put in practice what I had learned, and finding out what I liked and what my partner liked and that's how it remains with each subsequent encounter.

    I have continued my education since with video's and more reading as however much you think you know, there is always something new and unexplored right around the corner. New partners also bring new tricks and pleasures and displeasures as can be the case!!

    Regards my experience of teen sex as compared to yours due to location, I am glad you see what I describe as a horrible nightmare as this is why my opinion is as it is and were this your experience where you are in the world then you may be more in tune with my ideas.

    What I have found over the years is a gradual watering down of restraint and what is deemed normal and acceptable and this is my concern as I wonder what on earth it will be like in 10yrs time.

    Teen sex happens everywhere, with different consequences.

    I do know that in Muslim countries, boys convince girls to have sex with promises of marriage then ditch them afterwards leaving them with risk of being thrown out by family or worse. I know that anal sex is often practiced to avoid losing virginity and getting pregnant. I know this as fact not fiction.

    I know that in Africa, men and boys have forced sex with underage virgins in the thousands, as they believe it will cure them of aids.

    I guess if nothing of note is happening where you are then think yourself lucky, but I think there is possibly more going on that you are just not likely to be privy to for whatever reason.

    Re my own kids, they are only 4 and 5. But the curiosity is there already. We have dealt with many issues already in a simple effective way.

    I approach my kids in a very informal none dictatorial way and the way i intend to guide them to make sensible choices is through a slow drip drip education and discussing these issues with them always in line with their developmental stage.

    I expect my children to hide things from me, this is normal, fun and totally acceptable. I loved having secrets and doing things not allowed as a kid and why would I deprive my children of that by insisting they tell me every little detail of their life?

    The plan is not to know every detail of their lives but to ensure they make wise choices for themselves.

    My children are already in the habit of relating their day to me, no judgement is passed. It's a routine at dinner that we discuss our day. They enjoy it.

    Being passive is not the way to encourage openess, being non judgemental and providing an arena and habit for discussion is.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity




    Quote Originally Posted by Absum!

    Sex offences happen, but only in very small cases with individuals with psychological problems.

    .
    For someone who claims to have been raped multiple times by numerous men and NOT believed by police when it was reported (the police instead believing you encouraged them) this response is somewhat contradictory to your own personal experience.
    Blimey ToR

    You DO love to twist things around to suit your own strange ideas.
    Be careful doing that!

    I was actually believed by the police who did everything they could to nail these sick men, but they were facing the (in)justice system as much as I was, and they also knew what the system was like.
    The reason these men were not convicted was because there was insufficient evidence as i had bathed and washed it all away, even though i was subjected to 3 forensic examinations.
    But these men concocted a story that the police knew would make it difficult in court.
    I was told that the court case would be made more distressing for me because of this and at the end of it they still might not be convicted and walk free because of the reasons i stated above and before.

    YES i do believe men can become sexually frustrated but i don't believe they are all potential sex attackers because the majority of men are sane civilized people and it is only a very small minority who are unbalanced and liable to rape.

    Do us ALL a favour and get your facts right ToR before you get your soap box out and start ranting and a raving.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    With regard to kids and sex, I knew of many sex offences when I was a child myself.
    AH HA! That explains your extraordinary fear of boys and men!


    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    There was a word for molesting young girls in gangs at school - Debagging.

    It involved pinning the young girl (usually one of the shorter, fragile looking ones) to the floor and feeling in her knickers, entering her from behind and the front. This took place in the playground, while the girl screamed, cried and tried to escape. No action was taken, none was sought as this had become a 'norm' given the lack of boundaries of those concerned and the girls understanding of what was acceptable and not.

    I was fortunate to have avoided this sexual assault, perhaps because I had a brother with a mighty reputation that they were afraid of. But I saved a few friends from it too, with a swift kick to the bollocks of any boy attempting to drag my friends to the ground.

    I had a 15yr old tell me a while back, that a pal of her pinned her down and stuck his finger into her anus. He did it often. I asked her is she liked it, she said no. It was done against her will. I asked her if she knew this was assault, she said no. She thought it was just him having 'fun'.She said everyone did it. She didn't like it but accepted that sometimes her friends did this to her.

    This boy was someones son as too were all the boys who were regularly involved in debagging girls. No doubt many of whom believed their kids told them everything and that allowing them freedom meant they could do what many adults can't do easily and that is restrain themselves and properly manage that freedom.

    An adult male told me a while ago that his brother once forced a screwdriver up into his anus. He was about 13, his brother about 18. I asked if he regarded this as assault and he replied that while he screamed and cried it saw it as his brother 'just having a bit of fun'.
    Yes i remember de-bagging, but i remember it as having your skirt lifted for the girls and trousers removed for the boys, and i remember the girls doing this to the boys as much as the boys did to the girls.
    Although in my school pants and knickers were left on and dignity was maintained. I'm not sure about the school you went to!

    All this anal intervention sounds screwed up, i agree.

    But really ToR, these individuals probably did NOT talk about sex with their parents and all their education boiled down to snippets of playground talk or a porn mag found under their dads bed and imagination.
    If they had talked with their parents and got the proper feedback, they probably wouldn't have developed such a warped take on sex.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    This is what happens when you tell kids that underage sex and touching is ok. The water gets muddy.
    Err no ToR, this is where you have it the wrong way round.
    This is what happens when kids DON'T have someone sensible and grounded they can talk to about normal natural feelings they are having and experiences they are wanting! That's when the water gets muddy!

    And the water gets even more muddy when you have a parent who doesn't talk to their kids because they are terrified they might be encouraging them by talking about sex and reassuring them that such feelings and thoughts are a normal part of growing up.

    And worse still when you get a parent who expresses shock horror or even anger when their kids attempt to talk about sex and the feelings they are having.

    This is when major problems start to develop, when they bottle things up and start to have secret fears and shame developing because they are then taught that sex and the feelings that go with it are somehow shameful and not to be discussed.

    My son has come to me and asked me about certain feelings and thoughts he's been having, because he was feeling 'guilty' about thinking such stuff.
    All stuff i might add that i would be 'expecting' an adolescent to be experiencing, such as masturbation, as well as using the imagination in fantasies.
    My son worked up courage to come and talk because he was getting himself in a state about an impulse that he felt he couldn't stop, and he was feeling guilty about.
    It was relief he expressed when i said it was ok to masturbate and have fantasies and practically everyone else did, as long as it's in private. Hell it's one of life's pleasures even!
    I dread to think how that anxiety fear and guilt would have developed had he not had someone he could talk to.

    It's more likely kids who are sticking fingers or implements up other peoples backsides have deeper issues than just sex to discuss. Those kinds of acts seem to be mixed up with issues of dominance and power or lack of it and amount to a form of bullying.
    It seems more likely that those kids behaving in such extremes are probably faced with the warped beliefs with their parents who themselves have a sense of shame or guilt about sex as well as power and dominance problems, which they have successfully infected their children with.


    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Kids can't apply boundaries to themselves easily. If adults find it hard how is a child to manage it?
    Of course they can!
    In fact young people seem to be far more conscientious and particular about doing the right or the best thing than adults are.
    Adults simply have problems because they never had the freedom to learn to apply boundaries for themselves as children, and some just unfortunately simply reach a stage of 'fuck it' because they are too lazy to be strong willed and apply boundaries for themselves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Teaching children to respect themselves and others begins very early and wishing them well while they trot off at age 13 to persuade a 12yr old girl to have sex, when the 12yr old girl possibly doesn't even know they have a choice given the liberal attitudes of some parents is irrisponsible and is why we have so many sex crimes taking place that are neither reported or punished because the children involved have no clear idea as to what is 'normal'.
    Oh dear.....here she goes again

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Children should understand that their bodies are 'theirs' and that no one, adult or child can take, touch what is theirs. The guidelines they have are to protect them from abuse from adults or other children and to ensure they do not themselves abuse others. Teaching them that some touching is ok with some people and not others is confusing as a child cannot draw the boundary. Thus parents need to draw it for them.
    Gosh ToR .......wouldn't it be so much easier to live in the black and white world picture you paint without all this varying shades in between?

    A child knows instinctively what feels right and what feels wrong. You seem to have little faith in this capacity.

    There is nothing wrong with two children of the same age exploring each others bodies.




    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    When I was 15, I knew a boy of 14 who had sex with his 8yr old sister. This was very common knowledge. Not sure whether the parents knew but as mum was having sex with a 16yr old boy while her husband was in the other room, and other underage kids were having sex (publically) in another room, it would appear that the reason her son was molesting her daughter was that her own sexual boundaries were non existant.

    Who is at fault here, the incestuous 14yr old or the 'best friend' parent?
    .....from black to white and from one extreme to the other she rushes.......

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    I do not share Selenes naivity that sex crimes are rare,
    Good for you. I am also glad I do not live in your scary world full of bad wicked fictitious people!

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    as I am someone who people confide in, so I am hopeful that whatever it is in me that enables a stranger on a train to volunteer their life story enables my children to do the same,
    What on earth are you going on about here???

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    but that is not my aim as a parent. My aim is to help them to make wise choices so there is really not that much to tell.
    Oh My God that's it!!!!

    ToR imagines herself to be some authoritative holy moral matriarch!

    You are living in a bloody fantasy!

    So you imagine the world to be a terrible place full of wickedness and evil so you can imagine you are rescuing your self and your children from it and emerge as Mother Superior!

    Wake up ToR, before it's too late and your children look for someone else to give them guidance because their mother is living in some fantasy world instead of being grounded and she, not the world, frightens the hell out of them!
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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  39. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    gradual watering down of restraint and what is deemed normal and acceptable and this is my concern as I wonder what on earth it will be like in 10yrs time.
    If objective history is any guide, they will be better people than we think they are.

    Every generation takes issue with some nasty details manifesting in the younger culture. Normally we focus on the superficial & extreme, oblivious to the deeper movement these are part of, as if the little news bites are it.

    For example not long ago half the highschools in my city shut down. The students were striking. What they were protesting was the suspension of one single cross-dressing boy for violating dress code. Kids across the city rallied to support him (actually "her" they insisted ). And they won. Naturally the conservative voices said it's just an item of apparel, don't be petty. They didn't get it.

    The superficial details may look ugly to us. Heck they may be ugly. But pan out a bit to see these nasties are a price that must be paid to settle the hypocrisies of older generations. For example epidemics of STDs in the early 70s was the price paid for the sexual revolution. As usual conservatives fixed on the clinical facts and called for restraint, as they saw nothing but harm. They didn't get it.

    Now when I observe the younger generations I detect them daring social progress that is hard for me to grasp. I find it really weird when boys call girl friends "dude" without any apparent irony or offense taken. What are the implications? Some good, some bad, I guess. Whatever's going on, I must assume I "won't get it." So I'll try to hold my fire.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    I approach my kids in a very informal none dictatorial way and the way i intend to guide them to make sensible choices is through a slow drip drip education and discussing these issues with them always in line with their developmental stage.
    Mine is 7 and, contrary to expectations, he's never posed a very hard question yet. His mom and I just say whatever honestly comes off the tops of our heads. Sometimes he's returned to us with issues, from outside message sex is tremendously important. We give the impression (and do believe) sex itself is something of a red herring.

    We have had to adapt the boy a bit to Canadian consensus, because he's half-Japanese. It is actually really difficult explaining nudity taboos, why they apply here and not when we visit grandma. In short I had to tell him some people are shy & sensitive and it's mean to tease or upset them. Inevitably I have to tell my son the whopper though, which he already has some inkling of: that to "normal" Canadians nudity is sexual. It's a knotty issue.

    I wish someone else could give these talks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    My children are already in the habit of relating their day to me, no judgement is passed. It's a routine at dinner that we discuss our day. They enjoy it.
    That's excellent. My little guy compartmentalizes. I ask what his 1st grade class did, he often says "Oh, nothing."

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Being passive is not the way to encourage openess, being non judgemental and providing an arena and habit for discussion is.
    Yet you seem deadset on condemning their peers. Keeping your kids on-side. But more and more your kids must identify with the "norm" you despise, so then who are you judging finally?

    I really think it's a recipe for rebellion.
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  40. #39  
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    Pong, my kids peers are only 4 and 5! I don't condemn them.

    This thread is about bad parents not bad kids. Parents who fail their children by not providing enough structure, boundaries and safety net with their passive..do as you please it's all good attitude.

    I love kids, all kids and I work with kids! I am doing a teaching qualification but I hope to get into youth work as a mentor for dysfunctional ones. I have a lot of experience with these type of kids. I have known teen prostitutes, drug dealers, muggers...even a child murderer as friends in my youth. Despite our vast differences we were friends. I know that in all people there is goodness but their environment and poor parenting can fuck up their lives when their normal becomes far removed from the 'ideal normal'.

    I am not a follower myself and I have had no problem resisting peer pressure, and hope that I can pass these characteristics onto my kids so whatever situation they find themselves in they can say no if it is harmful to them. I never lost friends by saying 'no' I gained respect. If friends do ditch you for not doing as they do then good riddance. There are plenty of people out there not doing things to excess or without morality.

    I am laying the ground work now.

    I do it on very subtle ways..and there is always an opportunity for a life lesson.

    Example, yesterday my daughter sprinkled glitter on bro's dinner. When I spoke to her about this she claimed she knew it was wrong but he told her to do it.

    I thus used this opportunity to explain in simple terms to my daughter that no matter how close two people are, friends or family, when they ask you to do something wrong you can say no. You don't have to fear their feelings as they are not considering yours when they ask you to do something wrong.

    Kids take these simple messages on board especially if reiterated in simple clear ways as other opportunities arise.

    I avoid ever saying things like

    'do it, because your friends are doing it'

    when they refuse to do something a group is doing.

    These terms set a subconscious message that they must follow the pack.

    I am hoping to teach them to go their own way and make their own choices. To be leaders not followers.

    You say your son says 'oh nothing' when you ask him about his day. This is 100% normal and the standard reply especially if asked after school when they are tired and want to distance themselves from the memory of it!

    Hence we merely follow our pattern of open dialogue at meal times (more relaxed by then and sugar levels back to normal) which has become a habit for them and is kind of a competition now re who speaks first etc. Kids form habits easily, so why not make the most of this and get them into good ones early.

    Yesterday we discussed the idea of a 'no rule day' as I believe this will make following rules at school and home the rest of the week easier to bear knowing what fun they get to have on Saturday. They have stated the rules they would like to break are: 'taking sweets (from home) and eating them secretly' and staying up a bit later. No doubt there will be more but tame stuff really. Things I tend to relax anyway at the weekend.

    This negotiation strengthens their idea we are a democratic household, discussing how we plan to 'live' rather than them be forced under some kind of unfair system. It also teaches them about compromise and other useful tools as part of this discussion process.

    I have told my kids that it is my job to keep them alive, keep them healthy and keep them happy in that order. Thus if keeping them alive compromises their happiness (ie no jumping out 2nd floor window for fun) then so be it.

    They are great kids and help me lots voluntarily around the house because when they offer help despite the fact they may totally hinder my progress by scrumping up already ironed clothes when they attempt to fold them I know that saying 'no' to their offers of help, sets them up later to an aversion to the word 'help'.

    I am far from perfect, but I try and consider very carefully how what I do now affects them later on.

    The problem I see here in this thread is that somewhere along the line people think that a friend is a better person to be than a parent as if parent is a dirty word. In my household parent is a great word. It is worth more than friendship as it is eternal. It can not be broken. Friends come and go but I will be there forever for my kids and so will their dad. We will not let them down, parent is thus the better role to be.

    I teach my kids the value of family too, something few people seem to do in Western culture these days. We are a little team, who work together for the happy running of our home. This is our motto.

    I know there is a limit to what I can do and my kids will go their own way as adults and make their own mistakes. But at least I will know they have a good base to work from and return to. My son is very adventurous and I anticipate lots of dangerous sports and activities and know he will need to be kept busy as a teen. My daughter is willful, she'll do as she pleases but enjoys following rules and repeating them, so she'll probably end up in law enforcement! :wink:



    ps. off topic. You mentioned cross dressing. I used to host a cd website and wrote many articles for that community so I have no problem with this type of thing. My son is often dressed up by his sis, makeup, jewelry and dresses. Lots of great photos! He gets to put on nail varnish and can leave the house in it and has even left it wearing lip gloss. My children pick out their own clothes, and I have to be very tactful if their choice is somewhat unsuitable (lest I offend, no different to telling an adult they look crap!!) though usually they get to leave the house in it anyway as what they wear is their decision except on school days. I do not stress about things which bear no importance on their personal wellbeing/safety - though I am very quick to point out they dressed themselves to my pals if they get it a tad wrong.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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  41. #40  
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    Why do you need to go to such great lengths ToR to explain to others what a good parent you are?

    If you had the confidence that you truly were you shouldn't need to prove that to anyone else surely?
    Absum! has never been bored in her life, but is becoming increasingly bored of the Science Forum! :?


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