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Thread: Rape is traumatic.

  1. #1 Rape is traumatic. 
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    Why is rape so traumatic?
    Especially if experienced in childhood?


    I am.
    You can't deny it.
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  3. #2  
    Forum Professor serpicojr's Avatar
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    Think about it for two seconds and it should be self evident.


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    The Doctor Quantime's Avatar
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    Fear, misunderstanding, panic, pain, suffering, anxiety, feeling of violation. Its pretty much evident if they all roll into one that it is traumatic. Sex is the most personal thing to oneself, it must be evil fro a child to experience it, the poor souls don't even understand whats happening. Oh God I don't even want to think about it. Its terrible. Leave it at that.
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  5. #4  
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    I know this is a very offensive question.
    Okay let's not talk about children.
    Let this aside.
    But rape in general.
    I am.
    You can't deny it.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by 425 Chaotic Requisition
    Fear, misunderstanding, panic, pain, suffering, anxiety, feeling of violation. Its pretty much evident if they all roll into one that it is traumatic. Sex is the most personal thing to oneself, it must be evil fro a child to experience it, the poor souls don't even understand whats happening. Oh God I don't even want to think about it. Its terrible. Leave it at that.
    Precisely. The only thing I'd add to the list of offenses is humiliation.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard i_feel_tiredsleepy's Avatar
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    Post Traumatic Stress Disorder is almost always associated with feelings of helplessness. The inability to get out of a situation you don't want to be in, some people can dissociate from their realities, but most (especially children) can not detach and thus become traumatized.
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    Rape thats agreed upon by both parties can be
    pretty kwel though...
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  9. #8  
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    If its consent, it ain't rape mate. Don't make fun of this kind of topic, people can be very sensitive to it so try and keep the jokes to another thread please. I'm offended by your comment. Even if it is fun to you and you like actively fantasising and performing it with your partner, I and I think everyone else here doesn't want to hear about it.
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    Forum Masters Degree organic god's Avatar
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    if it offends you then don't read it. haters be left to grill you know.

    some of us are interested in the psychology of rape victims. or perhaps people who have rape fantasies.

    I for one would like the discussion to continue
    everything is mathematical.
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  11. #10  
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    425 was not objecting to a continuation of the discussion, but to flippant remarks such as those apparently made by Hanuka. 425's observations on the matter match those of this moderator almost exactly. I shall be watching this thread closely and will delete inappropriate posts without further warning.
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  12. #11  
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    he was just saying that he enjoyed rape fantasies. doesnt seem that flippant
    everything is mathematical.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by organic god
    he was just saying that he enjoyed rape fantasies. doesnt seem that flippant
    It was flippant enough for me and - I would suggest - for anyone who has thought through the major aspects of this issue in a mature fashion.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by organic god
    he was just saying that he enjoyed rape fantasies. doesnt seem that flippant
    It was flippant enough for me and - I would suggest - for anyone who has thought through the major aspects of this issue in a mature fashion.
    Ophi

    Hanuka posts in that style in every thread.

    Meanwhile

    Rape is traumatic as it is a violation of the most intimate of personal spaces.

    To the thread starter...

    consider this

    How do you feel when a stranger steps everso slightly within your personal body space boundary. You feel a tiny bit uncomfortable, yet there is no physical contact. Something happens that you find distressing and the feeling will increase the longer they remain inside your space.

    You can multiply that feeling several thousand times when a stranger not only comes within your personal body space but enters your actual body in the most extreme way possible. Not only this, they may force you to violate them, to take them in their most intimate space. Your mouth, your anus, your vagina. You might be probed with non biological items, violently so. Rape is not just penetration of a penis. There might be knife wounds, amputations and so on. There might be degrading talk, they may expect you to talk that way too. There might be confinement, sensory deprivation, threats of death to you and your loved ones.

    The violations and trauma is immeasurable.

    Think again about that person in your personal space.

    Now think about the office worker next you, leaving their bag slightly on your side of the desk...how that teeny tiny violation makes you feel.

    Again magnify this several thousand times when the violation is in you, on you all around you and you have to possibly emulate the acts performed to you to them.

    Rape fantasies are something different

    Both parties know no harm is being done physically or mental. It is merely a question of pretending one has power over someone without it, which can be attractive. This can be done via bondage as easily as it can by faking the act of penetrative only style rape. There is no violation of personal space as the penetration is consentual, expected, anticipated and welcomed. It is not at all the same.

    Must not confuse the two.

    With regard to experiencing this in childhood, greater pain, greater fear, greater confusion, greater sense of powerlessness, trust shattered (usually violated by someone known to them) no knowledge of what to do about this afterwards, no coping mechanisms. May repress the memories until later.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    [Ophi

    Hanuka posts in that style in every thread.
    And in most threads I shall tolerate it. Not in this one.
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    In another thread I'm trying to sort out the fancy rope tricks at play when we get turned on and view our partners as sex objects, or get excited by porn depicting (ourselves) getting pleasured. There's a loophole in that. I think it has to do with bypass of sympathy. I suspect that rape pulls this knot the wrong way.

    If that's true, we could understand rape victims and rapists beyond the trite interpretations. In the past I've said "it's about power" but I suspect there's more going on than that.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    In another thread I'm trying to sort out the fancy rope tricks at play when we get turned on and view our partners as sex objects, or get excited by porn depicting (ourselves) getting pleasured. There's a loophole in that. I think it has to do with bypass of sympathy. I suspect that rape pulls this knot the wrong way.

    If that's true, we could understand rape victims and rapists beyond the trite interpretations. In the past I've said "it's about power" but I suspect there's more going on than that.
    Rape is not a sex act. It's a violent assault. Do not confuse rape fantasies with rape, they are not remotely the same as I said before. Knowing your partner wants you makes all the difference. it is not forced.

    If a boyfriend forced himself for real on his gf, regardless of past rape fantasy sex he may have had with her, she would feel traumatised and justifiably seek criminal action.

    Women may fantasise about rape sex with their partner but they NEVER fantasise about being raped for real by a stranger at knife point.

    Men may, but then men are very different creatures to women.
    'Time is the space between birth and death' by me.
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    That is terrible. I find it very disturbing trying to imagine such a thing, and that can't even come close to the horror you must have endured. I am very happy for you that you were finally able to emerge a whole person on the other side. Lots of respect, and good luck to you.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    In another thread I'm trying to sort out the fancy rope tricks at play when we get turned on and view our partners as sex objects, or get excited by porn depicting (ourselves) getting pleasured. There's a loophole in that. I think it has to do with bypass of sympathy. I suspect that rape pulls this knot the wrong way.

    If that's true, we could understand rape victims and rapists beyond the trite interpretations. In the past I've said "it's about power" but I suspect there's more going on than that.
    Rape is not a sex act. It's a violent assault. Do not confuse rape fantasies with rape, they are not remotely -
    Whoa, hold off the dogma! My point is not where you've jumped to. I'm suggesting there's a unique mechanism in the mind of the rapist, a buggy program if you will, twisted, which is incompatible with the normal sexual process. I'm suggesting rape and sex are qualitatively different... and you agree... it's not a question of quantity as in "how brutal" or whatever. It's true or false by the social roles, how they counterpart, or don't. It's what happens beneath the surface.

    Trite assertions like "Rape is not a sex act. It's a violent assault." shed less light. But I guess we're all excused of emotional blurts aimed at rape but really just pounding this debate to silly putty. Let's try to examine rape dispassionately.

    So, holding in mind my proposition that rape is twisted (in a particular bad way I think we can puzzle out if we try), remember that sex also is twisted - in a good way though also puzzling. Different twists. Different mechanisms. And it just so happens that they both twist around sympathy; around the "mirror neurons" to be clinical about it. Your thoughts?

    And besides what's broken in the rapist, what's broken in the victim? Try and get it in the context of normal healthy sex being kinda "broken" to begin with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    If a boyfriend forced himself for real on his gf, regardless of past rape fantasy sex he may have had with her, she would feel traumatised and justifiably seek criminal action.
    Statistics tell us she might consider pressing the charge, but is very unlikely to follow through. I'd like this debate to resolve every woman reading it, to go ahead and send rapists whomever they may be, headlong into the justice system. That's not punishing a guy for being male, because rape is not a normal male tendency. It's a different creature that appears most often in males. I think we all know it when we see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    (men may fantasise about real rape) but then men are very different creatures to women.
    Men objectify their partners to a much greater degree, in getting turned on. The mode is normally positive, even loving in the same way flower fanciers love bouquets or potters love to sculpt, or, well, guys love race cars. It's one kind of intimacy, depersonalizing yes, but heading in the opposite direction of rape. It's empathetic or keen at least. Women bring a more direct and active sympathy to the bedroom, even getting off on the guy's ...um, pleasure... and never mind their own. That shouldn't be confused with the role of victim, though it often is.

    ***

    Thanks for sharing your story Absum! . That is serious crap to go through. So much wreckage. And smart move you "gave up" and quit the scene 'cause that's how you kept true to yourself wasn't it? Otherwise you'd be in lies and probably half-believe them over time. And now where are you? Surely not sleepwalking like most of the town! You have insight. That's powerful. You can go farther.

    Contrast those three brutes. They screwed themselves. How so? Because, unlike you, they're most certainly denying the rape... they'd rather not think about it - I'll bet they don't in any spiritually brave fashion. And that means they just can't fathom themselves. Not 'till they face it... which they won't. Such a life must be hollow.
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  22. #21  
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    Pong

    Rapists are not necessarily twisted in their sexual thinking however comfortable it may be for us to think this.

    I say this given fact historically many (if not most) 'normal' men raped women till it became punishable by law.

    Fathers, sons, brother - raped

    Then soldiers continued to rape enemy women - cos they could largely get away with it. Men in power would also rape women if they believed they could get away with it. Some cultures still and cast out punish women who cry rape, so rape in those cultures is fairly rife still.

    Punishment and education make the difference not mental health, though undoubtably some rapists are mentally unwell.

    I suppose before when I said rape is a violent act not sex act I was incorrect as it does depend on context.

    Some men rape for sex if they think they can get away with it, others rape for some twisted violent reason due to mental health issues.
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theoryofrelativity
    Rapists are not necessarily twisted in their sexual thinking however comfortable it may be for us to think this.

    I say this given fact historically many (if not most) 'normal' men raped women till it became punishable by law.
    Yes, good backup & I reckon it's true. But "normal" can be "twisted". I hold that "normal" human beings do contain knots and contradictions i.e. "twists". I also said that sex (ordinary friendly sex) is twisted. And don't get me wrong, I like sex. Just that I'm also comfortable thinking myself and others are inherently imperfect, or, "jerry-rigged" if you will. To evolve as social animals we had to elude certain awkward facts of life - we never really solved the contradictions and they haunt the species still. I'm gonna talk about some of those.

    Terminology I use:

    Empathy is consideration for another. For example we empathise with (at) babies. It's thoughtful, and largely learned. Good manners, ethics, and so forth are expressions of empathy.

    Sympathy is "getting" another's experience. For example when you see somebody hurt, and you wince, that's sympathy. Also when you see a person dance, and you project into their shoes and learn the moves, that's sympathy. It's innate. Some recent studies indicates sympathy is far more literal and concrete than the abstract "wishes" presented by greeting cards. Apparently our brains contain mirror neurons that structurally echo the experience of others, so we truly do "get" what's going on in other people's minds, just as if it's our own.


    So we have this neat capacity to sympathise, always ready to reach out and take in other people's experience. Wouldn't it be nice if people sympathised all the time? No it wouldn't. You wouldn't want to sympathise with the baby sucking on your mammal. You'd want to empathise, and somehow shut down sympathy in this case. That we do, thanks to Darwin's little jerry-rigger. I guess we have some kind of bypass or exemption structure built in for this. We don't sympathise with children (I mean the child facet of them), but we do very much empathise for them. I consider that twisted - and not in a bad way! I am a father.

    Another case where sympathy is unwanted is sex. Fucking especially. Fucking absolutely. (I enjoyed that excuse to curse :P ) Why should be obvious if one thinks about it. So sympathy must be shut down, regarding sex, by some devious little fix-it mechanism. An evolutionary hotfix. It's twisted, no? Of course we may retain what empathy we have, but remember empathy is more of a learned, cultural, "higher level" thing.

    If anybody can report sympathy (as defined above) in sex, please do tell. I'm also keen to learn of any sympathy in sexual attraction, sexual arousal, etc. Because in my experience it just ain't on. I don't feel I'm wearing my wife's panties. Really.

    No really.

    So where else do we snuff sympathy? In aggression, obviously. That one shouldn't take any uncomfortable soul-searching. It's supposed to be so.


    Hm... children, sex, aggression. Suppose some people get their wires crossed over these shutdowns, connecting one with the other? And they lack the particular arrangement of (mostly learned) empathy to regulate their thoughts and actions in that area. They might short aggression with children, or...

    get the picture?


    ***

    I wanna talk about when sympathy persists where it shouldn't, but that I think has little to do with rape... another topic.

    ***

    @ Absum! . I think you're correct those men dehumanised you, which is more than just sexually objectifying because they also acted contrary to basic human empathy. I mean we can objectify a newborn baby in a sense but still feel overpowering tenderness for it.

    I think the egging-on explains how/why they got to this extreme and actually over the top. It's group fanaticism. Fanaticism, to my mind, is a process beginning when people find their situation or beliefs or feelings in contradiction. They want to correct the discord, naturally. Unfortunately humans have this dangerous flaw whereby we tend to modify our beliefs to suit the present. It can set up a kind of snowball effect, because one should then act on the revised belief, and that action may be more discordant again at some deeper level... but the fanatic "stays the course" with greater and greater efforts to prove what is fundamentally wrong. You can see how group dynamics would multiply fanatical progression.

    On the brighter side, if it was fanatical overcompensating you can be sure they unconsciously knew they were wrong, and still do. You can partially understand "why" for what it's worth.


    What are we to do about it? It's harrowing but I think the main action we can take is educating bad parents, wherever we find them. So long as our generations grow in healthy environments they must better the preceding ones.
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  24. #23 Re: Rape is traumatic. 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mastermind
    Why is rape so traumatic?
    Especially if experienced in childhood?
    Rape is so traumatic because it's about penetrating the privacy, value and the whole being of a person. It involves a whole aspect of a person being abused, mentally, socially, physically,emotionally,spiritually and intellectually. As a result most of the people who experienced it during their childhood developed social withdrawal later on.
    love will endure when you keep it pure...^_^
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    I love rape.

    Its an amazing plant with great medicinal qualities.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  26. #25  
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    Haven't you posted that somewhere else in this forum before? Or have I just had another conscious memory of my future (now present) come back to me.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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