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Thread: Is There A Multiverse

  1. #1 Is There A Multiverse 
    Forum Freshman Big Walt's Avatar
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    .... we have met the aliens and they are us….

    There have been experiments performed to prove the existence of this thought, the multiverse. An experiment called the double slit experiment devised by Richard Feynman resulted in some rather strange results. I for one do not really know if a time bridge can be constructed using high speed particals in a Hadron Collider in Cern to create a Einstein Rosen Bridge (A Worm Hole To The Past). Like you I have pondered this very same question, is time travel possible. I initially said no way for time travel but as I kept reading a unique set of words kept popping up again and again and here is what I am reading...

    A growing number of physicists Richard Feynman, N. Ph. Georgiades, E.S.Polzik and H. J. Kimble are convinced that the thing we call ‘the universe’ — namely space, with all the matter and energy it contains — is not the whole of reality. According to quantum theory — the deepest theory known to physics — our universe is only a tiny facet of a larger multiverse, a highly structured continuum containing many universes.

    I could easily write some deep explanation with scientific clarity but to answer the hypothesis of cause and effect and tell you that the laws that govern our universe can not be broken, but what if when you go back in time and make a change to the time line the change does not effect your future but rather an alternate future in the multiversity.

    Everything in our universe — including you and me, every atom and every galaxy — has counterparts in these other universes. Some counterparts are in the same places as they are in our universe, while others are in different places. Some have different shapes, or are arranged in different ways; some are so different that they are not worth calling counterparts. There are even universes in which a given object in our universe has no counterpart

    On large scales, universes obey the laws of classical physics, and so each behaves as though the others were not there. But on microscopic scales, quantum mechanics becomes dominant and the universes are far from independent. Universes that are very alike are close together in the multiversity and affect each other strongly, though only in subtle, indirect ways — a phenomenon known as quantum interference.

    Without quantum interference, electrons would spiral into atomic nuclei, destroying every atom literally in a flash. Solid matter would be unstable, and the phenomena of biological evolution and human thought would be impossible. And as I shall explain, it is quantum interference that provides our evidence for the existence of the multiversity.

    Through interference, its counterparts in other universes can affect each particle in our universe. What we see as a single subatomic particle is really a sprawling trans-universe structure, spanning a large region of the multiversity. Although we cannot see the parts of this structure that are outside our universe, we can infer their presence from the results of experiments.

    As I said scientists are going to experiment with high speed partials at CERN so the rules have not been written yet, we have no unified theory yet. We just do not know what is possible. I for one hope for time travel, can you just imagine knocking on your families door in say 1941 would they believe you came from the future or just call the cops saying you are a madman. No one would ever believe you.


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  3. #2 How About A Reply 
    Forum Freshman Big Walt's Avatar
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    Re: Is there a multiverse?

    I would be intersed in discussing this subject with anyone who cares to write back to me.


    Thanks soooooooooooooooooooo much

    Big Walt
    Orlando, Florida


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    There have been many proposed theories of everything. Actually a TOE is one of the most sought after truths in physics today and actually what I think you are alluding to with quantum physics containing multiple universes is one of these TOE's in String or M-theory. Strings, which are forms of vibrating energy, can take on any form out of millions (quarks, mouns, leptons, etc...) but these strings can only exist in 10 dimensions.
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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  5. #4 Re: Is There A Multiverse 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Walt

    I could easily write some deep explanation with scientific clarity but to answer the hypothesis of cause and effect and tell you that the laws that govern our universe can not be broken, but what if when you go back in time and make a change to the time line the change does not effect your future but rather an alternate future in the multiversity.
    The problem is that there might be a time traveler in that universe as well, who comes to our past and changes stuff..... and then what? I'm not convinced that time travel has to allow us to change our own history in order for it to exist. Maybe it exists, but you can't change anything.

    Maybe you can still time travel to Mars' past. I'm pretty sure nothing you did on Mars 2000 years ago would change anything about the Earth's history.
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    As I understand current hinking on the possibilitiesd of time travel, the swithc on of the LHC will permit time travel from the future to that point in time, but not further back in the past.

    Also, the character of the multiverse is - again from my understanding - realted to many distinct and disconnected universes, so your talk of varied time lines does not apply. You seem more to be describing the Many Worlds Interpretation of quantum mechanics.

    Finally, as a minor aside, since the double slit experiment was first conducted in 1909 and Feynman was born in 1918, I rather doubt he conducted or devised the experiment, unless he had access to one of those time machines. :wink:
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    Forum Freshman Big Walt's Avatar
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    Hello Ophiolite

    Thank you for your response, but unfortunately you are mistaken when you say that the LHC will permit time travel from the future to that point in the time line. The fact is and I quote from published articles that the LHC that scientists are not sure what will happen and should a Einstein Rosen bridge happen it will be no larger then an atom, so forget about stepping through to another time at least for the time being. We just do not know for sure what will develop.

    You were absolutely right when you say that Fenyman was born in 1918, my mistake, it was Thomas Young who devised the double-slit experiment. Feynman concluded, each photon not only goes through both slits, but simultaneously traverses every possible trajectory en route to the target, not just in theory, but in fact.

    Quantum theory is the language of all particle theories. It is formulated in a well-defined mathematical language. It makes predictions for the relative probabilities of the various possible outcomes, but not for which outcome will occur in any given case. Interpretation of the calculations, in words and images, often leads to statements that seem to defy common sense -- because our common sense is based on experience at scales insensitive to these types of quantum peculiarities. Because we do not directly experience objects on this scale, many aspects of quantum behavior seem strange and even paradoxical to us. Physicists worked hard to find alternative theories that could remove these peculiarities, but to no avail. The word quantum means a definite but small amount. The basic quantum constant h, known as Planck's constant, is 6.626069 x 10-34 Joule seconds.

    Because the particles in high-energy experiments travel at close to the speed of light, particle theories are relativistic quantum field theories. The world of quantum mechanics is pretty strange when you try to use words to describe it.

    I hope this answered your response, now it’s back to the future…
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    Quote Originally Posted by BumFluff
    There have been many proposed theories of everything. Actually a TOE is one of the most sought after truths in physics today and actually what I think you are alluding to with quantum physics containing multiple universes is one of these TOE's in String or M-theory. Strings, which are forms of vibrating energy, can take on any form out of millions (quarks, mouns, leptons, etc...) but these strings can only exist in 10 dimensions.
    I have copied an excerpt by Nobel laureate Steven Weinberg who sums up his thinkings on a TOE. I hope I did not go to far on this research.

    The fundamental particles of the universe that physicists have identified—electrons, neutrinos, quarks, and so on—are the "letters" of all matter. Just like their linguistic counterparts, they appear to have no further internal substructure. String theory proclaims otherwise. According to string theory, if we could examine these particles with even greater precision—a precision many orders of magnitude beyond our present technological capacity—we would find that each is not pointlike but instead consists of a tiny, one-dimensional loop. Like an infinitely thin rubber band, each particle contains a vibrating, oscillating, dancing filament that physicists have named a string.

    In the figure at right, we illustrate this essential idea of string theory by starting with an ordinary piece of matter, an apple, and repeatedly magnifying its structure to reveal its ingredients on ever smaller scales. String theory adds the new microscopic layer of a vibrating loop to the previously known progression from atoms through protons, neutrons, electrons, and quarks.

    Although it is by no means obvious, this simple replacement of point-particle material constituents with strings resolves the incompatibility between quantum mechanics and general relativity (which, as currently formulated, cannot both be right). String theory thereby unravels the central Gordian knot of contemporary theoretical physics. This is a tremendous achievement, but it is only part of the reason string theory has generated such excitement.

    Field of dreams

    In Einstein's day, the strong and weak forces had not yet been discovered, but he found the existence of even two distinct forces—gravity and electromagnetism—deeply troubling. Einstein did not accept that nature is founded on such an extravagant design. This launched his 30-year voyage in search of the so-called unified field theory that he hoped would show that these two forces are really manifestations of one grand underlying principle. This quixotic quest isolated Einstein from the mainstream of physics, which, understandably, was far more excited about delving into the newly emerging framework of quantum mechanics. He wrote to a friend in the early 1940s, "I have become a lonely old chap who is mainly known because he doesn't wear socks and who is exhibited as a curiosity on special occasions."

    Einstein was simply ahead of his time. More than half a century later, his dream of a unified theory has become the Holy Grail of modern physics. And a sizeable part of the physics and mathematics community is becoming increasingly convinced that string theory may provide the answer. From one principle—that everything at its most microscopic level consists of combinations of vibrating strands—string theory provides a single explanatory framework capable of encompassing all forces and all matter.

    String theory proclaims, for instance, that the observed particle properties—that is, the different masses and other properties of both the fundamental particles and the force particles associated with the four forces of nature (the strong and weak nuclear forces, electromagnetism, and gravity)—are a reflection of the various ways in which a string can vibrate. Just as the strings on a violin or on a piano have resonant frequencies at which they prefer to vibrate—patterns that our ears sense as various musical notes and their higher harmonics—the same holds true for the loops of string theory. But rather than producing musical notes, each of the preferred mass and force charges are determined by the string's oscillatory pattern. The electron is a string vibrating one way, the up-quark is a string vibrating another way, and so on.

    Far from being a collection of chaotic experimental facts, particle properties in string theory are the manifestation of one and the same physical feature: the resonant patterns of vibration—the music, so to speak—of fundamental loops of string. The same idea applies to the forces of nature as well. Force particles are also associated with particular patterns of string vibration and hence everything, all matter and all forces, is unified under the same rubric of microscopic string oscillations—the "notes" that strings can play.

    A theory to end theories

    For the first time in the history of physics we therefore have a framework with the capacity to explain every fundamental feature upon which the universe is constructed. For this reason string theory is sometimes described as possibly being the "theory of everything" (T.O.E.) or the "ultimate" or "final" theory. These grandiose descriptive terms are meant to signify the deepest possible theory of physics—a theory that underlies all others, one that does not require or even allow for a deeper explanatory base.

    In practice, many string theorists take a more down-to-earth approach and think of a T.O.E. in the more limited sense of a theory that can explain the properties of the fundamental particles and the properties of the forces by which they interact and influence one another. A staunch reductionist would claim that this is no limitation at all, and that in principle absolutely everything, from the big bang to daydreams, can be described in terms of underlying microscopic physical processes involving the fundamental constituents of matter. If you understand everything about the ingredients, the reductionist argues, you understand everything.

    The reductionist philosophy easily ignites heated debate. Many find it fatuous and downright repugnant to claim that the wonders of life and the universe are mere reflections of microscopic particles engaged in a pointless dance fully choreographed by the laws of physics. Is it really the case that feelings of joy, sorrow, or boredom are nothing but chemical reactions in the brain—reactions between molecules and atoms that, even more microscopically, are reactions between some of the fundamental particles, which are really just vibrating strings?
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  9. #8 Re: Is There A Multiverse 
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Walt

    I could easily write some deep explanation with scientific clarity but to answer the hypothesis of cause and effect and tell you that the laws that govern our universe can not be broken, but what if when you go back in time and make a change to the time line the change does not effect your future but rather an alternate future in the multiversity.
    The problem is that there might be a time traveler in that universe as well, who comes to our past and changes stuff..... and then what? I'm not convinced that time travel has to allow us to change our own history in order for it to exist. Maybe it exists, but you can't change anything.

    Maybe you can still time travel to Mars' past. I'm pretty sure nothing you did on Mars 2000 years ago would change anything about the Earth's history.
    The reductionist philosophy easily ignites heated debate. Many find it fatuous and downright repugnant to claim that the wonders of life and the universe are mere reflections of microscopic particles engaged in a pointless dance fully choreographed by the laws of physics. Is it really the case that feelings of joy, sorrow, or boredom are nothing but chemical reactions in the brain—reactions between molecules and atoms that, even more microscopically, are reactions between some of the fundamental particles, which are really just vibrating strings?
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Finally, as a minor aside, since the double slit experiment was first conducted in 1909 and Feynman was born in 1918, I rather doubt he conducted or devised the experiment, unless he had access to one of those time machines. :wink:
    The first double slit experiment is usually attributed to Thomas Young in the early 1800s although he used a "slip of card" to split a beam of light and produce interference fringes. The 1907 experiment by G. I. Taylor was a variation using very dim light which led to the conclusion that each photon interferes with itself.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Walt
    Thank you for your response, but unfortunately you are mistaken when you say that the LHC will permit time travel from the future to that point in the time line.........We just do not know for sure what will develop. …
    My post was ambiguous. I was addressing your poitn about visiting 1941, for example. If the LHC operation makes time travel possible, then it would only permit travel back to the time of switch on, not further back. Your last quoted comment above most accurately reflects our present state of knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Big Walt
    I hope this answered your response, now it’s back to the future…
    I wasn't really looking for an answer, but thank you anyway. I'm not quite sure how your detailed remarks relate to my own comments: I'll try re-reading both.
    Cheers.
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  12. #11 Re: Is There A Multiverse 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Big Walt
    .... we have met the aliens and they are us….

    There have been experiments performed to prove the existence of this thought, the multiverse. An experiment called the double slit experiment devised by Richard Feynman resulted in some rather strange results. I for one do not really know if a time bridge can be constructed using high speed particals in a Hadron Collider in Cern to create a Einstein Rosen Bridge (A Worm Hole To The Past). Like you I have pondered this very same question, is time travel possible. I initially said no way for time travel but as I kept reading a unique set of words kept popping up again and again and here is what I am reading...

    A growing number of physicists Richard Feynman, N. Ph. Georgiades, E.S.Polzik and H. J. Kimble are convinced that the thing we call ‘the universe’ — namely space, with all the matter and energy it contains — is not the whole of reality. According to quantum theory — the deepest theory known to physics — our universe is only a tiny facet of a larger multiverse, a highly structured continuum containing many universes.

    I could easily write some deep explanation with scientific clarity but to answer the hypothesis of cause and effect and tell you that the laws that govern our universe can not be broken, but what if when you go back in time and make a change to the time line the change does not effect your future but rather an alternate future in the multiversity.

    Everything in our universe — including you and me, every atom and every galaxy — has counterparts in these other universes. Some counterparts are in the same places as they are in our universe, while others are in different places. Some have different shapes, or are arranged in different ways; some are so different that they are not worth calling counterparts. There are even universes in which a given object in our universe has no counterpart

    On large scales, universes obey the laws of classical physics, and so each behaves as though the others were not there. But on microscopic scales, quantum mechanics becomes dominant and the universes are far from independent. Universes that are very alike are close together in the multiversity and affect each other strongly, though only in subtle, indirect ways — a phenomenon known as quantum interference.

    Without quantum interference, electrons would spiral into atomic nuclei, destroying every atom literally in a flash. Solid matter would be unstable, and the phenomena of biological evolution and human thought would be impossible. And as I shall explain, it is quantum interference that provides our evidence for the existence of the multiversity.

    Through interference, its counterparts in other universes can affect each particle in our universe. What we see as a single subatomic particle is really a sprawling trans-universe structure, spanning a large region of the multiversity. Although we cannot see the parts of this structure that are outside our universe, we can infer their presence from the results of experiments.

    As I said scientists are going to experiment with high speed partials at CERN so the rules have not been written yet, we have no unified theory yet. We just do not know what is possible. I for one hope for time travel, can you just imagine knocking on your families door in say 1941 would they believe you came from the future or just call the cops saying you are a madman. No one would ever believe you.
    first of all quantum theory does not exsplain multable universes M theory does that. quantum theory states that particlles have properteis of both particles and waves. also thomas young was the first person to do the double expeirament so everyone thought particles, or at least light particles(photons), were waves. but then einstein proved that light was a particle. a few scientist and theories later we came up with quantum physics. also quantum interference is when a particle interacts with its self not with other particles. it does not interfere with other particles from other universes. plus there is an infite amount of universes that dont obey quantum physics or any other known or unknown law of physics is this universe. that is what M theory along with many others state.
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  13. #12  
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    Pretty common though when discussing Time Travel is that you cannot travel further back in time then to when the very first time travel machine works.

    So if we successfully develop Time Travel by 2025, one could never travel back in time further then 2025.
    So in 2100 you could travel back to 2025 again, but not further.
    I am not to familiar with the theory behind this, but I´ve seen it mentioned in many of theese discussions.

    Personally, I think that if Time Travel was possible, we would see a few people from the future here, today..

    Let´s just all agree we dont know if it ever will work, so we only have one chance at this thing called life - let´s try and make the best of it.
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  14. #13  
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    Well, I threw in a post over in the physics section about the LHC and such. Mixing in the String Theory with my own theory and the LHC, I came up with a little multiverse thing.

    http://www.thescienceforum.com/viewt...=129744#129744
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