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  1. #1 Thickness of universe 
    sak
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    So far I was thinking about Big Bang and the universe, if universe expands, what could be it’s thickness? Or is it full of matter all the way up to 150b years?


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    It's hard to say actually, I think. But there needs to be matter space was made of since all the stars, planets, moons etc.are composed of that matter, I would say.

    An other indication space needs to be holding matter was, earth was visible out of space. Space I think provides as background for earth or other celestial bodies to be visible.

    The exploration was rather difficult hence space can not be explored in conventional ways. Space can not be breathed like air or be drunk like water. Also, just plunging into space will kill everyone who will be trying.

    To know about its thickness we probably need to know where space itself (the space matter ) originated from, or, seen from earth, what was beyond space.


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  4. #3  
    sak
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    In fact what I mean is:
    1. The universe is 150b years across in diameter.
    2. The big bang is only 14b away and no one clear about how long it happened, e.g. big bang is 1b long explosion.
    3. Universe is a hollow sphere
    Then what width the Universe have? May be 10b considering the expansion of space?
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    First off, a year is a unit of time, while a light year is the distance light travels in a year and is thus a unit of distance. The universe is about 156 billion light years across. The Big Bang was about 13.7 billion years ago. I don't see what you mean by how long it happened. The 'explosive' expansion part stopped rather quickly in less than a second, although it is still expanding at an ever increasing rate. If you think of the universe as a sphere, then its diameter is 156 billion light years and it would not have a 'thickness' or 'width' like a cube, sense it is a sphere.
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    1- BBT, suggest the U is 156 Billion light years across and our known U is 14.2 BLY in all directions. If expansion is a reality then expansion should be in all direction, matter then spread out accordingly. In our known universe, matter seems to be consistent (density) in all directions, at least from us.

    SSU, where the extent of the U is not determinable, where space is itself unlimited and gravity should have played a roll during the eons of time, some feel it should follow the pattern set by Galaxy formation. Even in this case, the comparable central bulge, would have to be at least 30 BLY thick and probably much greater...

    2- Everything is based on 13.7 - 14.2 BLY per BBT, at least today. The suggested 156 BLY, is based on where things WERE, as we observe what was then. Since then, those objects and space itself should have spread to said limts...

    SSU suggest, everything that is out there ad observed by us has moved only from its normal velocity (Our Milky Way is though to be 300-600k/s). What is observed for one reason or another is limited.

    3- A said, if a sphere and expanding, the width is at least 26-30 BLY today.
    We would have no idea which direction this could be.

    The way I understand it....
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    Quote Originally Posted by sak
    In fact what I mean is:
    1. The universe is 150b years across in diameter.
    2. The big bang is only 14b away and no one clear about how long it happened, e.g. big bang is 1b long explosion.
    3. Universe is a hollow sphere
    Then what width the Universe have? May be 10b considering the expansion of space?
    Yes sure. But do we have the data really? And why space should be a hollow sphere?

    You do ask about the thickness of space. One information you should have to determine the extension
    of space. On the other hand you provide information of the extension of space.

    How could you know how far space reaches if you do not know about the thickness of it? The question
    you ask and/or the data you provide contradict, I mean.
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  9. #8  
    sak
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    May be conversion of idea into words is not so good,
    I taught universe like a foot ball, have a outside and inside diameter and hence the thickness. BB Happened at the center, it expanded ever since! This is what I want to clarify?
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    No. You have, perhaps, misunderstood an analogy for the expansion of the Universe. It is said that the Universe has no centre. How can this be?
    Imagine a balloon, or a football, that is being pumped up with air and so is expanding. Consider two dots on the surface of the balloon. They get further and further away from each other. Now where is the centre of the surface of the balloon - not the centre of the balloon, but the centre of its surface? Of course, it does not have one.
    Does that help?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sak
    May be conversion of idea into words is not so good,
    I taught universe like a foot ball, have a outside and inside diameter and hence the thickness. BB Happened at the center, it expanded ever since! This is what I want to clarify?
    Assuming there were two different diameters the universe would have goes contrary to your
    bb theory.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    No. You have, perhaps, misunderstood ... .... ... surface? Of course, it does not have one.
    Does that help?
    Agreed with that but as you said not the surface but the ball have a center and bladder have a thickness, inside is empty. So the universe must have those properties I suppose!

    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    3- A said, if a sphere and expanding, the width is at least 26-30 BLY today.
    We would have no idea which direction this could be.
    The way I understand it....
    Could this be answer?
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    Quote Originally Posted by sak
    Agreed with that but as you said not the surface but the ball have a center and bladder have a thickness, inside is empty. So the universe must have those properties I suppose!
    Then you suppose incorrectly. Its is the character of expansion expressed in the two dimensions of the surface of the ball that is analagous to the chracter of expansion expressed in the three dimensional properties of the universe. The three dimensional ball is not part of the analogy. Only its surface is relevant.
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  14. #13  
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    Things are not so clear to me. If someone say whether the universe have a hollow or empty inner portion?
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    No. It does not have a hollow inner part. The universe is three dimensional and it is continuous in all directions. (Please, nobody else come in with reference to string theory and ten or eleven dimensions, or even the four dimensions of space time.)
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    sak; This is my opinion; The Universe is ageless, has always been around and will always be around. There is no major expansion and if we knew where the limits were, we could figure a center and if shaped similar to a galaxy, the thickness. The outer limits should also be similar to a galaxy, thinning to single galaxy with a few stray stars or small dwarf galaxy floating around, lose matter, all destined to return from what ever orbiting.
    If all this were true and noted not the current or accepted theory, then the thickness would have to be no less than 28-30 billion light years, since we see that much 'in all directions' today.

    BBT, on the other hand states that space expanded from a single point. No explosion, just began (very fast) to expand. If a sphere in its original shape and expansion was in all direction (as said), it should still be a sphere, with no discernible thickness and any central point would have been inside that original unit that expanded. What became matter, the stars on to galaxy is ALL inside the expansion. There are no stars or matter, where expansion occurs. All things that are in the Universe, look pretty much like what we see all around us, already formed and in place. The expansion is to the space between all these objects. What we see through telescopes are from the distance and times it took there light to reach our observations. What was 2-3-6 or 14 billion years ago. If we where on a planet 14 bly away, all we observe here would appear the same because what was before anyplace else would have the same time/distance relationship.

    I think I know where your confusion is coming from. The different theory of Universal existence and the few references to shapes the U could exist in. The reality is no one knows anything for sure nor are we ever likely to know for sure. The football shape comes from CBR analysis of COBE which just as well could have been a globe sphere. The balloon thing or raisin bread, analogies to explain expansion, nothing to do with contents, other than how matter spreads with expansion.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    sak; This is my opinion; The Universe is ageless, ... ... ...
    It is more explained here. It gives a complicated calculation. However ever we observe a distant galaxy if universe expand at faster speed? Any way it is not my piece of bread I think – Thanks for all of you attempted.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    BBT, on the other hand states that space expanded from a single point. No explosion, just began (very fast) to expand. If a sphere in its original shape and expansion was in all direction (as said), it should still be a sphere, with no discernible thickness and any central point would have been inside that original unit that expanded. What became matter, the stars on to galaxy is ALL inside the expansion. There are no stars or matter, where expansion occurs. All things that are in the Universe, look pretty much like what we see all around us, already formed and in place. The expansion is to the space between all these objects. What we see through telescopes are from the distance and times it took there light to reach our observations. What was 2-3-6 or 14 billion years ago. If we where on a planet 14 bly away, all we observe here would appear the same because what was before anyplace else would have the same time/distance relationship.
    That's an interesting find. I wonder if the galaxies black whole has any job to do in keeping things together?

    The expansion of the universe would drive the galaxy apart otherwise, right?
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  19. #18 The Thickness of the Universe 
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    Wow! The universe is really thick. No one has ever know how thick this universe is. It's not that easy compared to measuring the diameter of cell. In it, if you have a microscope with your hand, then, you don't have a problem. But with measuring the thickness of the universe, I doubt it!
    Hey. Why don't you try to read my posts? They;ll help you a lot
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Miller
    Quote Originally Posted by jackson33
    BBT, on the other hand states that space expanded from a single point. No explosion, just began (very fast) to expand. If a sphere in its original shape and expansion was in all direction (as said), it should still be a sphere, with no discernible thickness and any central point would have been inside that original unit that expanded. What became matter, the stars on to galaxy is ALL inside the expansion. There are no stars or matter, where expansion occurs. All things that are in the Universe, look pretty much like what we see all around us, already formed and in place. The expansion is to the space between all these objects. What we see through telescopes are from the distance and times it took there light to reach our observations. What was 2-3-6 or 14 billion years ago. If we where on a planet 14 bly away, all we observe here would appear the same because what was before anyplace else would have the same time/distance relationship.
    That's an interesting find. I wonder if the galaxies black whole has any job to do in keeping things together?

    The expansion of the universe would drive the galaxy apart otherwise, right?
    BBT, explains space expansion is already "driving" galaxy or cluster of galaxy apart. The gravity between becoming less and less of an influence.
    However with in a group or any single galaxy the expansion to stars with in, is minimal, almost meaningless. BH theory IMO is still one in progress, w/o any firm understanding. IMO, there may be two different entities we call BH. One the simple death of large stars, which should take a great deal of time to complete, the process from implosion to evaporation holding mass/gravity effects on other matter which happens to be in the area. The second entity may give the appearance of a BH, offering a cause/effect for rotation of galaxy. Since stars really don't last very long and the larger ones even less in cosmology times (10-15 BY or less) IMO there should be a whole lot more BH's around then are determined to exist.

    CG; Strangely, I agree with you on perception. I have often visualized our place in all things, as a fraction of what could be, larger or smaller than we could understand. The problem, goes to the reality we have to live in and go from there. However this includes any form of creation, by any lab worker in a very large (comparatively) Universe or by the hand of a super natural spirit/being...
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    jackson33;
    I'm sorry, I'm not sure whether you understood my post rightly or not.

    I meant the expansion of the universe to be a balancing 'force', which counters the black holes effect on the galaxy.
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  22. #21 Re: Thickness of universe 
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    Quote Originally Posted by sak
    So far I was thinking about Big Bang and the universe, if universe expands, what could be it’s thickness? Or is it full of matter all the way up to 150b years?
    We now have definite conclusions about these questions :

    The universe is expanding with some constnat physical quantities , stemming from its physical process of vacuum being consumed by information , then events emerging , and then mass condensed from these events .
    All masses of the universe up to now were consensed from all events happened in the past of the universe lasted exactly 3.3170311178758666…e+10 years with some of its primary physical properties accompanied as :

    1 , the boundary of the universe is expanding with speed of lignt .
    at present , its radius is equal to 3.1381767999999997…e+26 m
    at last , its radius will reach at : 0.2224859546128698…e+52 m

    2 , the univere generates mass with a ratio of 0.4045199174779452…e+36 kg/second .at present , its total mass are equal to 4.2315167338906745…e+53 kg(including dark matter) .
    at last , its total masses will add up to 2.9999999999999999…e+78 kg.

    3 , the universe has its CMB temperature of 2.736K at present , at last universal moment , this temperature would reach at 0.1939730010816509…e+26 Kelvin .

    4, Every universal moment ( theoretical value :1.3483997249264841…e-43 second , obsrved value : 1.3512124957728855…e-43 second) , the universe generates an informaton unit .
    at present , it has total numbers of 7.7577806787995700...e+60 information units , called this figure as information modulus of the universe .
    at last , the universe will turn everything into information , and produce in total of 0.55e+86 numbers of information units representing information of all events of the universe happened and to be happened in 2.351661113361130…e+35 years .

    .......... , and so on .

    See all these calculation results at :

    http://www.universefedback.com/popularized_e/c10.htm

    http://www.universefedback.com/popularized_e/c11.htm

    http://www.universefedback.com/popularized_e/c12.htm

    Strongly recommended , having a glance at :

    http://www.universefedback.com/popularized_e.htm
    for sake of your full understanding .


    Thanks for your reading.
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