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Thread: Event Horizon Shape

  1. #1 Event Horizon Shape 
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Pardon my ignorance but I always see a black hole event horizon depicted as a funnel or something like a whirlpool eddy. Isn't a black hole a sphere? Shouldn't the EH be spherical in shape? If all the black holes out there are shaped like rubber balls is it possible that they could actually careen off each other or do 2 black holes have to collide if EH's contact one another?


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  3. #2 Re: Event Horizon Shape 
    Forum Sophomore numb3rs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    Pardon my ignorance but I always see a black hole event horizon depicted as a funnel or something like a whirlpool eddy. Isn't a black hole a sphere? Shouldn't the EH be spherical in shape? If all the black holes out there are shaped like rubber balls is it possible that they could actually careen off each other or do 2 black holes have to collide if EH's contact one another?
    i didont realy understand your question if you could rephase it...


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  4. #3 Re: Event Horizon Shape 
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    Quote Originally Posted by numb3rs
    i didont realy understand your question if you could rephase it...
    What is the general consensus as to the shape of a black hole's event horizon? If EH's from 2 separate Black holes make contact then will the black holes collide or can they bounce off one another? Does that help?
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  5. #4  
    Forum Sophomore numb3rs's Avatar
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    yes! most likey if 2 black holes collied with each other it will create a worm hole a worm hole is like drawing a line on a peace of papper with a point at each end point A and point B know fold the papper where point A tuches point B and punch a hole in the paper right were the 2 are and thats a worm hole. one of the only possable ways to travel faster then the speed of sound and would be the same as teleportation. or if everything is very simple lol it would be like 2 puddles of watter tuching each other they just becume twice as big as they were before and only 1 of them :P
    heres a image
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  6. #5  
    Forum Professor Obviously's Avatar
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    It's also believed that Intermediate-mass black holes are made up of stellar-mass black holes merging with eachother.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiki
    Stellar-mass black holes may act as "seeds" which grow by absorbing mass from interstellar gas and dust, stars and planets or smaller black holes.
    -------------------------------------------
    There are two popular formation scenarios for IMBHs. The first, is the merging of stellar mass black holes and other compact objects by means of gravitational radiation. The second one is the runaway collision of massive stars in dense stellar clusters and the collapse of the collision product into an IMBH.



    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_h...nd_evaporation
    -------------------------------------------
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interme...ass_black_hole
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  7. #6  
    Forum Professor sunshinewarrior's Avatar
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    Zinj

    I'm no expert, but a couple of points.

    1. Thanks to the conceptual difficulties of understanding General Relativity (and much modern physics), the ideas have often been described in terms of two-dimensional space. For instance, the Big Bang is often explained by reference to the surface of a balloon, and the vortex depiction (as also those involving the 'stretched rubber surface' and other descriptions of space as being deformed by gravity/massive bodies) are all minus1 in terms of our dimensions. It helps us appreciate or conceptualise what's happening, but isn't an accurate visual representation of the phenomenon.

    2. Event horizons do not have 'repulsive' force and there should be no barrier (and in fact a great deal of attraction) between two black holes that approach each other. As far as I'm aware, unless there are freaky results due to excess spin, they would love to merge.

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  8. #7  
    Forum Masters Degree SuperNatendo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by numb3rs
    yes! most likey if 2 black holes collied with each other it will create a worm hole a worm hole is like drawing a line on a peace of papper with a point at each end point A and point B know fold the papper where point A tuches point B and punch a hole in the paper right were the 2 are and thats a worm hole. one of the only possable ways to travel faster then the speed of sound and would be the same as teleportation. or if everything is very simple lol it would be like 2 puddles of watter tuching each other they just becume twice as big as they were before and only 1 of them :P
    Actually when two black holes colide a wormhole is not produced:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0411080753.htm

    In some cases, two galaxies containing supermassive black holes collide and merge together, and eventually the two supermassive black holes fall into the center of the merged larger galaxy, and spiral together. Ultimately, they merge into one even larger hole
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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  9. #8  
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    seeing the gravity would condense the matter in the black hole to a perfect sphere, the gravitational pull which absorbs light thus creating the event horizon should also be a perfect sphere. Right?
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  10. #9  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Youssef
    seeing the gravity would condense the matter in the black hole to a perfect sphere, the gravitational pull which absorbs light thus creating the event horizon should also be a perfect sphere. Right?
    That's what I was thinking if the black hole doesn't spin but I'm now wondering if the shape of EH would be affected by a spinner?
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    Quote Originally Posted by Youssef
    seeing the gravity would condense the matter in the black hole to a perfect sphere, the gravitational pull which absorbs light thus creating the event horizon should also be a perfect sphere. Right?
    That's what I was thinking if the black hole doesn't spin but I'm now wondering if the shape of EH would be affected by a spinner?
    if its a perfect sphere i dont think spinning will have any effect on the gravity? and thus the EH?
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  12. #11  
    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    What exactly could be spinning in a black hole? I mean a singularuty can't spin, can it?; it is dimensionless. Perhaps the matter inside the EH could form into a spin, flatten out a bit and so flatten the EH along with it. But since the mass in between the EH and the singularty would make up a small percentage of the total mass of the black hole, the flattening would be small. IMO
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    What exactly could be spinning in a black hole? I mean a singularuty can't spin, can it?; it is dimensionless. Perhaps the matter inside the EH could form into a spin, flatten out a bit and so flatten the EH along with it. But since the mass in between the EH and the singularty would make up a small percentage of the total mass of the black hole, the flattening would be small. IMO
    Are you sure there would be mass inbetween the EH and the singularity? and i thought the actual matter did have dimensions; i heard somewhere it could possibly be the size of a marble>? Probably dreamed it
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  14. #13  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Maybe someone can help me out with this one. For the first 300,000 years following the BB light could not escape. With all that concentration of matter how did gravity lose its strength? Would matter need to travel faster than c to break out or did the expansion of space distribute matter in such a way that gravity lessened? I can't understand why a supermass would even begin to fly apart unless it was acted upon by a stronger force, whatever it is?
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    Maybe someone can help me out with this one. For the first 300,000 years following the BB light could not escape. With all that concentration of matter how did gravity lose its strength? Would matter need to travel faster than c to break out or did the expansion of space distribute matter in such a way that gravity lessened? I can't understand why a supermass would even begin to fly apart unless it was acted upon by a stronger force, whatever it is?
    the matter was extremely hot at the time, and space was expanding faster than the speed of light... im not really an expert though
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  16. #15  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by medlakeguy
    the matter was extremely hot at the time, and space was expanding faster than the speed of light... im not really an expert though
    Let me put it another way. How does a mass so strong as to withhold light lose it's ability to do so? Are there any known reasons for this to occur or just theories?
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  17. #16  
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    the forces that apply today didn't necessarily apply at the beginning of the universe, it is believed that the four forces (gravity, em, strong, weak) were all combined as a unified force that had different properties than the four by themselves. at some point they separated. im not sure if thats why the universe could pass light but im guessing that might be the reason

    no em force no em radiation right?
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  18. #17  
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    ok that last post i made was probably wrong, i found a good article on it though

    http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...df_040924.html
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