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Thread: Age of Universe Question

  1. #1 Age of Universe Question 
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    Not a scientist but I get scientific ideas floating around in my head. What to do. Here is my question. I read the universe is approximately 13.7 billion years old. Then I read the most distant galaxy ever detected is 12.7 billion light years from earth. Assumming the big bang theory, all information originated from the same place and then ka'boom. This being said, is it true to say that if it takes light from the most distant galaxy 12.7 billion light years to travel to earth, it is also true to say that it took the earth much much longer to distance itself from that galaxy that at one time was in the same pre-big bang atom that created all?

    How old is the universe? Must be at least a zillion years old? right?


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  3. #2  
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    When bodies of matter move away from each other as a result of the space in between expanding, as opposed to the bodies moving though space, the speed of light limit does not apply. So the earth might as well have almost instantly been seperated from that galaxy by 12.7 light years without the light speed limit being broken. IMHO :wink:


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  4. #3  
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    [quote="KALSTER"] the speed of light limit does not apply.

    Ok so then the speed of light is not the standard... interesting
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    It is for normal movement through space. The expansion of space does not involve movement in the normal sense of the word.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  6. #5  
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    the universe is infinty large but it takes time for that light to reach us. so when we measure the farthest object then we our measure the amount of time the universe has been alive.
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  7. #6  
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    Cant grasp it... ok - some 12.7 billion years ago light from the most distant detectable galaxy began to travel toward the earth and reached us today. Very cool. I just want to know how much time did it take the earth to distant itself 12.7 billion light years away from this galaxy assumming everything came from the same big bang. Everything had the same starting point. I am sure the earth and/or the elements that make up the earth travel considerably slower than the speed of light.
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    It sounds like you're asssuming the earth was created right after the Big Bang. That's definitely not the case. The Earth was formed only 4.5 billion years ago out of dust and gas that existed after the formation of the sun.
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  9. #8 Re: Age of Universe Question 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajg624
    I read the universe is approximately 13.7 billion years old. Then I read the most distant galaxy ever detected is 12.7 billion light years from earth. Assumming the big bang theory, all information originated from the same place and then ka'boom. This being said, is it true to say that if it takes light from the most distant galaxy 12.7 billion light years to travel to earth, it is also true to say that it took the earth much much longer to distance itself from that galaxy that at one time was in the same pre-big bang atom that created all?
    First off, a light year is a measure of distance not time. I'm assuming you mean the light from distant galaxy takes 12.7 billion years to get to Earth.

    For simplicity sakes let's assume the Earth and the most distant galaxy started from the same point. If they moved away from each other in opposite directions at the same speed then it took only 12.7 divided by 2 equals 6.35 billion years for the two to become separated by 12.7 ly's or am I missing something?
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  10. #9 Re: Age of Universe Question 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajg624
    Not a scientist but I get scientific ideas floating around in my head. What to do. Here is my question. I read the universe is approximately 13.7 billion years old. Then I read the most distant galaxy ever detected is 12.7 billion light years from earth. Assumming the big bang theory, all information originated from the same place and then ka'boom. This being said, is it true to say that if it takes light from the most distant galaxy 12.7 billion light years to travel to earth, it is also true to say that it took the earth much much longer to distance itself from that galaxy that at one time was in the same pre-big bang atom that created all?

    How old is the universe? Must be at least a zillion years old? right?
    Well, my version of a Steady State Universe is a lot older than a zillion years. In fact, it had no beginning or will have no end. This universe also complies with all the Laws of Physics, experiments and observations.

    While on the other hand, the BBT universe violates all the above by claiming they are not relavent.
    In other words, it discards all the previous science by replacing it with ad hoc subjective science.

    So the current age was finalized from the WMAP research and evaluations. This CMBR has such tiny variations in its data (7/100,000) of a Kelvin that it just seems unrealistic as does the other BB science.

    Cosmo
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  11. #10 Re: Age of Universe Question 
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    [/quote]

    First off, a light year is a measure of distance not time. I'm assuming you mean the light from distant galaxy takes 12.7 billion years to get to Earth.

    For simplicity sakes let's assume the Earth and the most distant galaxy started from the same point. If they moved away from each other in opposite directions at the same speed then it took only 12.7 divided by 2 equals 6.35 billion years for the two to become separated by 12.7 ly's or am I missing something?[/quote]

    yep... missing one thing... light can travel 180kmph per second but the earth cannot.
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  12. #11 Re: Age of Universe Question 
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    [quote="zinjanthropos
    First off, a light year is a measure of distance not time. I'm assuming you mean the light from distant galaxy takes 12.7 billion years to get to Earth.

    /quote]

    LY is a measure of distance over time = speed. we all know that. even if the earth and the most distant galaxy were developed after the big bang, its mass and energy that created it were part of the big bang. All started at the same point in some configuration.
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    the universe is the size of chewing gum under a chair for some 'being' above up..
    We spend most of our lifes not knowing..
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  14. #13 Re: Age of Universe Question 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajg624
    yep... missing one thing... light can travel 180kmph per second but the earth cannot.
    I knew I was missing something. Thanks for pointing it out.
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  15. #14 Re: Age of Universe Question 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajg624

    First off, a light year is a measure of distance not time. I'm assuming you mean the light from distant galaxy takes 12.7 billion years to get to Earth.

    For simplicity sakes let's assume the Earth and the most distant galaxy started from the same point. If they moved away from each other in opposite directions at the same speed then it took only 12.7 divided by 2 equals 6.35 billion years for the two to become separated by 12.7 ly's or am I missing something?
    yep... missing one thing... light can travel 180kmph per second but the earth cannot.
    The velocity of light 'c' is a constant. So it can represent both space and time.

    Also your reasoning that we should be at an equal distance from one point that represents a center is valid, but not to the BB'ers, because they say the BB has no center.
    This is just another example of the confusion that the BBT supplies.

    My opinion is that all 3D objects must have a center but the centerless BB is promoted as a 2D space that is not valid.
    In other words, I do not believe in a 'hollow' universe.

    Cosmo
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  16. #15  
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    LY is a measure of distance over time = speed.
    No. A lightyear is the DISTANCE light travels in a year. 1LY(m) = C(m.s<sup>-1</sup>)*1year(s).
    My opinion is that all 3D objects must have a center but the centerless BB is promoted as a 2D space that is not valid.
    In other words, I do not believe in a 'hollow' universe.
    Yes a 3D object has a centre, but space is not an object. It is the medium of 3D. BB is explained as dots on an inflating balloon only for clarification purposes.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
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  17. #16  
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    3 components to your LY expression. Given any 2 is enough to calculate the 3rd.

    No. A lightyear is the DISTANCE light travels in a year. 1LY(m) = C(m.s-1)*1year(s).
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  18. #17  
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    Still no answer to the question posed. Assume nothing. Facts are this.

    The most distant Galaxy is 12.7 billion light years from earth. Let's figure out the distance in miles.

    Light travels approx. 16 billion miles in one year. It takes light 12.7 billion years to travel from the most distant galaxy to the earth.

    16b * 12.7b = distance in miles between earth and most distant galaxy.

    Question is, how long a time did it take to develop this distance between these two masses?
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  19. #18  
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    13.7 billion years?
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    ajg; First light travels 16.1 Billion miles in one DAY. About 5.865 Trillion miles in a year. 186,200 miles X 60 seconds X 60 (minutes) X 24 (Hours)
    X 365 Days = 5.865 Trillion.

    When its said, light is from 13.7 billion miles, its the energy formed and was emitted by a source that long ago. There are many factors involved, primarily that of formation of matter in the first place. No doubt, where ever we are observing, many things we observe are long gone and just as many have not been around long enough for energy to reach us.

    BBT, offers different rates for expansion. C velocity would be the 186K miles per second, but from where expansion is occurring. Since this is said to occurring simultaneous in all directions, SPACE expansions for objects inside this expansion, to each other would depend on where each is from the expansion, adding to this where it was when the energy was sent into space.

    I would think, if something were centered, expansion in all direction from that centered object would be off-set or little movement from the expansion. This would increase to objects and the expansion the closer you get to where expansion is ongoing, to the point of anything very near it, which would be near C in that case.

    Since BBT has no idea how long C+ expansion has been (some say 5-7 Billion years, other since it began, some saying it never went past C) I doubt there is a formula to determine any two objects or how long a time it took for space volume to double or objects with in to spread out to a definitive mileage.

    I hope this helps, but its from my understanding of BBT, which in the first place makes little logical sense to me...
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  21. #20  
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    BBT is just plain UNrealistic. Example:

    The BB space is supposed to be expanding in such a way that the space is additive as we see deeper in space.
    So on that concept, I decided to make a calculation for the point where the space would exceed the velocity of light.

    So space is expanding at a rate of 75 kilometers per second per megaparsec.
    So you add 75K till it reachers a velocity of light speed that is then equal to 4000 seconds. After 4000 seconds, our universe would be invisible beyond that time.
    I wonder if that is the 'horizon problem' they are talking about?

    Another problem with this scenario is, how do you incorporate the 'megaparsec' into this expansion?
    Is the BBT expanding within the megaparsec or just between the MPC?
    Maybe in 'pulses' between each MPC?
    This is weird.

    Cosmo
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  22. #21  
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    My post above does not answer the question of the age of the BBT.

    But if you cannot determine the size of the BB or to be able to look back in time, than we cannot determine how old the BB is?

    The WMAP is the data that supposedly finalized the age, but how credible can these tiny variations (7/100,000 of a Kelvin) in the CMBR be?

    Cosmo
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  23. #22  
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    I read somewhere that since the expansion of space is happening faster and faster, and that it will not slow down and will not implode back in on itself, this means that the farther away we find an object, the younger the age of the universe.
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  24. #23 Re: Age of Universe Question 
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajg624
    Not a scientist but I get scientific ideas floating around in my head. What to do. Here is my question. I read the universe is approximately 13.7 billion years old. Then I read the most distant galaxy ever detected is 12.7 billion light years from earth. Assumming the big bang theory, all information originated from the same place and then ka'boom. This being said, is it true to say that if it takes light from the most distant galaxy 12.7 billion light years to travel to earth, it is also true to say that it took the earth much much longer to distance itself from that galaxy that at one time was in the same pre-big bang atom that created all?

    How old is the universe? Must be at least a zillion years old? right?
    if there was enything before the big bang i beleve that the big bang has happened billions and trillions of times think of a peace of dynimit when you set it off the explotion spreads out and the retracts back into it'self
    if the big bang theroy is correct our univers is just one big explotion that has not yet ended when the universe reaches the end were it will it will start retracting the univers will get colder and colder as heat spreads out over a farther range and as it contracts the univers will get hotter and hotter as everything gets closer together.
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  25. #24 Re: Age of Universe Question 
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    Quote Originally Posted by numb3rs
    if there was enything before the big bang i beleve that the big bang has happened billions and trillions of times think of a peace of dynimit when you set it off the explotion spreads out and the retracts back into it'self
    if the big bang theroy is correct our univers is just one big explotion that has not yet ended when the universe reaches the end were it will it will start retracting the univers will get colder and colder as heat spreads out over a farther range and as it contracts the univers will get hotter and hotter as everything gets closer together.
    Actually, this used to be the generally accepted theory, recent discoveries however have proven that the universe is expanding, and not only that, it is expanding faster and faster. The universe has reached the point of no return, it will never collapse back in on itself.

    The reasons for this expansion are still under debate, most scientists belive some form of matter that they have given the name "dark matter" due to the fact we have never seen it or been able to detect it. Some believe the properties and physics of gravity needs to be updated to fit what we observe in order to account for this.

    Either way, we know there will neve be a big compression.
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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    aye remeber time happens diffrently in space tho.

    tho tbh whats the point you cannot comprahend any of this.
    its just numbers.
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