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Thread: Black, White, and Worm Holes

  1. #1 Black, White, and Worm Holes 
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    Hey all,

    I've been watching that show The Universe. I have no other knowledge of the universe compared to the average person. So yes, I'm going to sound like an ignorant idiot here. I was just wanted to clear up some information. I don't want to go into any debate, as I don't care if I'm wrong to even ask. I'm fine with being wrong.

    I was curious what happens when a black hole explodes?

    Now as I understand it gravity is always trying to win a battle against stars, planets, etc. It's pulling them together, inward. So the sun dies fighting against this force, fusing it's elements etc until it gets to iron. Then gravity strikes a blow and it explodes and/or turns into a neutron star. So then gravity still hasn't won, because neutrons are holding it up against gravity. Eventually it turns into a black hole and maybe pulsar. Now as I understand that still means gravity hasn't won. Gravity is still pushing the matter together, but with such a strong force that not even light can escape. So then a black hole would still be comparable to a neutron star or the sun, but at a much denser/stronger level. It's just compacted to a smaller space, with such a larger force that nothing can escape merging. Whereas plenty can escape the smaller gravity fields of stars.

    So what's holding the "black hole" together? Subatomic particles smaller than neutrons? What if the gravity becomes too strong and it explodes just like stars? Talking much bigger black holes than supermassive ones.

    Would it explode and create an affect similar to a white hole? The show suggests that it would not. So then what does happen?

    What if a black hole's gravity wave (that space/time sheet thing lol) becomes so strong it creates what we call a "worm hole" and the mass of the black hole is transported through through that hole in space (which the strong gravity caused), emitting a white hole on the other side? It seems to me that would explain worm holes, and white holes. At least in theory.

    Which in turn helps out the whole 'big bang was actually a white hole' theory.

    Of course there would be no way to prove it. But does it at least make some sense?

    Thanks for your input =)


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  3. #2  
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    White holes (opposite of Black Holes in theory) and Worm Holes (extensions of into something or somewhere else) are basically of Science Fiction interest...

    White Dwarfs, what was probably addressed, are thought to be what small Stars eventually become. Death of our Sun for instance will become a White Dwarf...

    BH, are very large stars which have used up there fuel and imploded, to a mass equal to there original mass in a very small area. Gravity, based on mass then equal to that original mass. It is thought BH *evaporate* over time, rather than explode.

    You do see more people talking about a similarity of BH and the singularity defined as the source for our universe. Much of BH theory is speculation, from the original thought that BH was simply a process in the death of a Large Star, which is process taking a great deal of time.

    IMO; BH and some other entity are being confused, but in either case its not likely or has BBT embraced, a direct comparison between the two.

    A WEB search, would provide a good history of what BH have been thought to be over time and the various hypothesis offered. Gravity influence in general is limited and often exagerated...IMO.


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  4. #3 Re: Black, White, and Worm Holes 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daedro

    So what's holding the "black hole" together?
    Gravity.

    Subatomic particles smaller than neutrons?
    The mass comprising a black hole has had most of it's properties "squished" out of existence, with only the mass, angular momentum and perhaps a small charge left over.

    What if the gravity becomes too strong and it explodes just like stars?
    Black holes don't explode.
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  5. #4 Re: Black, White, and Worm Holes 
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    Thanks jackson33, yeah Hawkings thinks the small ones emit radiation and would take billions of years to decay. I think that's just something additional, not proposed as the only way a black hole can be destroyed.

    I just don't get why everyone has this image that nothing exists in a black hole. Just because it doesn't emit light. That's just because it's much stronger than the stars. It's condensed, and isn't that all we know? If a neutron star was stronger and didn't emit light, we would think it didn't have properties and could hold infinity mass. If a white dwarf is just a more compressed yellow dwarf, and a neutron star is just a more compressed white dwarf, and a black hole is a more compressed neutron star. Then why do we all of a sudden perceive a black hole as not being capable of the same attributes?

    In every one of those stars something is in the core pushing against gravity until gravity breaks it down. Nuclear fusion produces enough energy to keep the core pressure high enough to push against gravity, until it gets to iron, then neutrons push against gravity, then it breaks it down and ??? push against gravity. So then what is pushing against gravity in the core of a black hole? If there was nothing pushing against gravity in the core, then gravity would win, and a black hole wouldn't have gravitational force because it wouldn't exist anymore. Maybe something else would though, like a wormhole, emitting a white hole on the other end, energized by the matter from the black hole, that was defeated by gravity. (somewhat) The fact a black hole exists means there is something in the core. Something subatomic like neutron stars (neutrons pushing against gravity) but smaller. Possibly so compact one day it's destroyed.

    We think we can create worm holes, and transport matter through them, but don't think the force caused by a black hole wouldn't become so strong it creates a worm hole forcing the matter collected by the black hole through it, emitting a white hole on the other end?

    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    Quote Originally Posted by Daedro

    So what's holding the "black hole" together?
    Gravity.
    Sorry, but that's obvious, I meant what is keeping a "black hole" from being destroyed by gravity. In the core. For it to exist, something must be keeping it from letting gravity win. Otherwise it wouldn't exist, or it would explode, which we don't think they can do.

    Quote Originally Posted by (Q)
    What if the gravity becomes too strong and it explodes just like stars?
    Black holes don't explode.
    That is exactly my point. As I said, the show suggests they don't explode. So then wouldn't it be possible for gravity to get so strong it tears right through space-time, creating a worm hole, emitting a white hole on the other end? They said the mystery to a white hole was where the energy would come from - gravity tearing a wormhole in space-time pushing the matter from the blackhole. I at least know they are saying the big bang was a singularity, black hole, white hole, or something we don't know.
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  6. #5  
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    It seems that what we do know is that, the repulsive ability of the atoms to push each other away is weaker than the force of gravity pulling them together.

    But....... we take a lot of our notions of repulsive force from quantum mechanics, and we already know that the macro theory of gravity doesn't work very well in quantum mechanics.

    So, we're kind of taking two incompatible force theories and setting them against each other, only to find that they don't match up, and it looks like the matter should compress all the way to infinity small.

    A few possiblities present themselves:

    1)- Maybe the combined repulsive force a condensed mass is stronger than the sum of its parts. (Just like how its combined attractive force is stronger than the sum of its parts)

    2)- Maybe our notion of gravity simply breaks down at those masses.

    3)- Maybe there are even smaller scale versions of the strong and weak forces inside an atom that only take effect when the distances between sub-atomic particles get extremely close.

    4)- well.......... actually there are many, many possibilities. I just like those first three.
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    I remember reading somewhere that blackholes are nothing more that a singularity, with no real size. Depending on the power (not the size) of the blackhole it's effect would be weaker or stronger compaired to another blackhole.

    I also read that whiteholes are the opposite of blackholes (duh). Instead of sucking matter and time into nothingness they spew out matter and time but it's all theory.
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