Notices
Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: I believe Iíve proven that there isnít an infinite number of universes.

  1. #1 I believe Iíve proven that there isnít an infinite number of universes. 
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Posts
    12
    A decently common theory is the idea that there are an infinite number of universes, in something called the multiverse. This implies that there is a universe for everything. If this statement is true, then that would mean that another universe managed to invade our universe at this very second, because an infinite number of universes means an infinite number of possibilities. If said theory is true, then there should be an infinite amount of universes invading our universe at this very second. Because this isn’t happening, this leads to the final conclusion that there isn’t an infinite number of universes, which means that either we’re the sole universe, or that there is a finite number of other universes. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    New York State
    Posts
    1,297
    Multiverse idea does not imply an infinite number. It is all guesswork, like supernatural.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    New Member
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Posts
    1
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Multiverse idea does not imply an infinite number. It is all guesswork, like supernatural.
    Well, to be fair, they didn’t dismiss the idea of a multiverse, simply the idea of an infinite one.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,167
    Quote Originally Posted by mathman View Post
    Multiverse idea does not imply an infinite number. It is all guesswork, like supernatural.
    I think there are a few different "multiverse" models

    Which model are you thinking of?

    The one I have (extremely vaguely)in mind might be an infinite "collection" of "parallel "(not parallel at all) physical systems which have no connection to each other at all except possibly at their "birth"

    So ,entirely pointless as model, and more like a religion as you say.

    On the other hand if any of the "multiverse" models is able to make a prediction that can be verified then I will (or will not) eat my hat
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    6,150
    When Krauss said that at some point in the future, expansion of space at greater than c will eventually leave each galaxy on their own with no evidence that they are part of a larger universe. For all intents they would be a universe in their own right and civilizations that arise in these galaxies will form their own theories as to whether other universes exist. All said, my point is today we may also be lacking evidence for other universes and unfortunately all we can do is speculate.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/startsw...h=50fbeaa42fcf
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    When Krauss said that at some point in the future, expansion of space at greater than c will eventually leave each galaxy on their own with no evidence that they are part of a larger universe. For all intents they would be a universe in their own right and civilizations that arise in these galaxies will form their own theories as to whether other universes exist. All said, my point is today we may also be lacking evidence for other universes and unfortunately all we can do is speculate.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/startsw...h=50fbeaa42fcf
    I’m not diminishing the idea of a multiverse to any extent, and I do truly agree with you. I’m simply stating that an infinite number of universes is impossible, the idea of a multiverse on the other hand, isn’t.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    6,150
    What are the finite number of universes in? And same goes for each container following.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,167
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What are the finite number of universes in? And same goes for each container following.
    If we were just talking about our own universe (as we best understand it) I think it is considered that it is not "in" anything.

    So following that idea ,if there were a finite number of multiverses they would similarly be "standalone".(not "in" another one)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What are the finite number of universes in? And same goes for each container following.
    If we were just talking about our own universe (as we best understand it) I think it is considered that it is not "in" anything.

    So following that idea ,if there were a finite number of multiverses they would similarly be "standalone".(not "in" another one)
    Exactly.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    6,150
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanCulbertson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    What are the finite number of universes in? And same goes for each container following.
    If we were just talking about our own universe (as we best understand it) I think it is considered that it is not "in" anything.

    So following that idea ,if there were a finite number of multiverses they would similarly be "standalone".(not "in" another one)
    Exactly.
    If all universes are stand alone then how can one prove there are finite or infinite numbers of them?

    From the OP I assume that there’s a universe for every probability and I’m guessing attacking means somehow interfering with our universe. So because there’s a probability that universes should jostle about and it isn’t happening then there’s only finite universes. The one probability that other universes won’t bump into ours isn’t considered in this case?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,167
    This is all pretty surreal(a bit Alice in Wonderland) but how do we know that all the different probable universes are not "attacking" us?

    It might just be normal and we would have no way of detecting it unless some razor sharp mind came up with a way and spoiled the fun.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,167
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post

    If all universes are stand alone then how can one prove there are finite or infinite numbers of them
    Beats me.If there is any interaction of any description between so called and hypothesized "multiverses" then maybe they are all just parts of the one (standalone) universe?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    May 2023
    Posts
    12
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    This is all pretty surreal(a bit Alice in Wonderland) but how do we know that all the different probable universes are not "attacking" us?

    It might just be normal and we would have no way of detecting it unless some razor sharp mind came up with a way and spoiled the fun.
    I’ve had this question asked before, and my answer is that there must be an infinite amount of universes invading us while letting it be known to us.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    6,150
    Could it be that stand alone universes do not ‘attack’ one another? Another reason they’re stand alone? If so, there is no telling how many there are. Kind of paradoxical to think a universe is stand alone if there be more than one. Is this where another plane of existence explains presence of other universes? If so then how many planes of existence would there be? Finite or infinite amount? Assuming one universe per plane.
    Last edited by zinjanthropos; May 27th, 2023 at 03:18 PM.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,167
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Could it be that stand alone universes do not ‘attack’ one another? Another reason they’re stand alone? If so, there is no telling how many there are. Kind of paradoxical to think a universe is stand alone if there be more than one. Is this where another plane of existence explains presence of other universes? If so then how many planes of existence would there be? Finite or infinite amount? Assuming one universe per plane.
    If they exist they could be out of our ken for all practical or theoretical purposes.

    But I have heard the idea that our universe may have been created with an anti universe (the two created at the same time)and if that had happened then it might just be out of our ken for practical purposes whilst a theory might be constructed as to what the companion univers might look like even if its existence was of zero consequence for us.

    I think the idea of them "attacking" us may be one of the interpretations of quantum mechanics but I know next to nothing about that(just about able to follow a pop sci documentary if I try hard)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    6,150
    If we superposition quantum particle(s), multiple states at same time, are we creating new universe(s) or adding to this one?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,167
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    If we superposition quantum particle(s), multiple states at same time, are we creating new universe(s) or adding to this one?
    Isn't that just a model?Something to allow us to make predictions.

    Is it like virtual particles which (I think I may have heard) are just something to hang the maths on?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    6,150
    Wouldn’t be first time I’ve misunderstood stuff while representing laymen of the world. Qubits popped into my head. My thinking is it’s still one particle but in different states until measured. I was just wondering about the different states and if there is a ‘where’ for each one. Is it in limbo? Even for something simple like one or the other for a particle is two states until measured….does the other state have a home? Why does it always seem to come back to the cat in the box?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,167
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Wouldnít be first time Iíve misunderstood stuff while representing laymen of the world. Qubits popped into my head. My thinking is itís still one particle but in different states until measured. I was just wondering about the different states and if there is a Ďwhereí for each one. Is it in limbo? Even for something simple like one or the other for a particle is two states until measuredÖ.does the other state have a home? Why does it always seem to come back to the cat in the box?
    What about if the particle only exists when measured and in between measurements doesn't exist?

    It did exist at the time of the last measurement (measurement -existence) and exists again (as a different object?) when it interacts with another object?

    All the "superimposed states states" are measurements that have not been performed because there has been no interaction(interaction=measurement)
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    6,150
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos View Post
    Wouldn’t be first time I’ve misunderstood stuff while representing laymen of the world. Qubits popped into my head. My thinking is it’s still one particle but in different states until measured. I was just wondering about the different states and if there is a ‘where’ for each one. Is it in limbo? Even for something simple like one or the other for a particle is two states until measured….does the other state have a home? Why does it always seem to come back to the cat in the box?
    What about if the particle only exists when measured and in between measurements doesn't exist?
    Nice thought! Probability seems to exist in some mysterious place(maybe in this universe, somewhere else or nowhere) but the measured/measurer appear to belong in this universe.

    All the "superimposed states states" are measurements that have not been performed because there has been no interaction(interaction=measurement)
    Superimposed vs superpositioned…. Same thing or is one an image and the other something? I think that would mean you can’t discount existence of other universes?

    How big does a universe have to be? Could a universe only have one particle? Be one particle? One probability? Could it be all universes are one particle and what we think is one universe is actually countless numbers of them?
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Posts
    5,167
    I probably wrote "superimpose" mistakenly for "superposition"..

    I think I may well have heard the idea that there is just one particle (or wave) in the whole universe but can't say much more than that.

    Perhaps it is a semi respectable theory

    Actually a short google search brings up this site https://interestingengineering.com/s...e-the-same-one

    where a very similar idea is attributed to John Wheeler who was ,I think very highly thought of ...and successful
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Driving in my car
    Posts
    6,150
    Quote Originally Posted by geordief View Post
    I probably wrote "superimpose" mistakenly for "superposition"..

    I think I may well have heard the idea that there is just one particle (or wave) in the whole universe but can't say much more than that.

    Perhaps it is a semi respectable theory

    Actually a short google search brings up this site https://interestingengineering.com/s...e-the-same-one

    where a very similar idea is attributed to John Wheeler who was ,I think very highly thought of ...and successful
    I’m no Wheeler. At least he knew why he said it. It almost seems one needs to prove what isn’t a universe before proving there is one.
    All that belongs to human understanding, in this deep ignorance and obscurity, is to be skeptical, or at least cautious; and not to admit of any hypothesis, whatsoever; much less, of any which is supported by no appearance of probability...Hume
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    KJW
    KJW is offline
    Forum Professor
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    1,822
    Quote Originally Posted by RyanCulbertson View Post
    A decently common theory is the idea that there are an infinite number of universes, in something called the multiverse. This implies that there is a universe for everything. If this statement is true, then that would mean that another universe managed to invade our universe at this very second, because an infinite number of universes means an infinite number of possibilities. If said theory is true, then there should be an infinite amount of universes invading our universe at this very second. Because this isn’t happening, this leads to the final conclusion that there isn’t an infinite number of universes, which means that either we’re the sole universe, or that there is a finite number of other universes. I would love to hear your thoughts on this.
    I think you made an invalid assumption. An infinite number of universes does not mean that everything is possible. If everything that is possible happens, this does not mean that anything that is impossible happens. That is, an infinite number of universes does not include any in which the impossible happens. Also, an infinite number of universes does not itself imply that everything that is possible happens. That everything that is possible happens is the assumption we need to make, and this implies an infinite number of universes. To disprove this assumption requires that something that doesn't happen in any universe is actually possible. You have not addressed the issue of universes invading other universes being possible. If such a notion is impossible, then your proof is invalid.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: September 15th, 2012, 06:04 AM
  2. Infinite within the infinite? Parallel universes.
    By onerock in forum Personal Theories & Alternative Ideas
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: September 27th, 2009, 08:48 PM
  3. "Randomly" picking from an infinite number of choi
    By Scifor Refugee in forum Mathematics
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: March 2nd, 2009, 07:49 PM
  4. Hypothesis of infinite universes
    By Dirtybird77 in forum Astronomy & Cosmology
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: March 15th, 2008, 06:13 AM
  5. Replies: 15
    Last Post: August 1st, 2006, 09:30 PM
Tags for this Thread

View Tag Cloud

Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •