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Thread: Crewed or uncrewed missions?

  1. #1 Crewed or uncrewed missions? 
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    What kind of space missions do you support crewed or uncrewed missions? Nowadays space technology is developing so rapidly as you can see. Personally, I support uncrewed missions. It's much easier and more important secure to send uncrewed missions ( we just don`t have to risk the crew) But still, there is a lot of important stuff in particular missions machines cannot do without humansWhat do you think about that?


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    The cost alone demands robotics all the way. They can probably do most of what is needed for the data one is seeking.

    What kind of things do you suppose "machines cannot do without humans".? Strictly from a data collection view, no matter the complexity. Really deep core sample maybe, What else? This is a good point you have brought up!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post
    The cost alone demands robotics all the way. They can probably do most of what is needed for the data one is seeking.

    What kind of things do you suppose "machines cannot do without humans".? Strictly from a data collection view, no matter the complexity. Really deep core sample maybe, What else? This is a good point you have brought up!
    I consider crewed exploration is the way to go. As far as science goes, a crewed mission can analyze and return significantly more science than an uncrewed mission. But as I have already mentioned, uncrewed missions are more secure and cheaper.
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    In your original post you noted : "Personally, I support uncrewed missions".

    Now you are posting "
    I consider crewed exploration is the way to go." One might assume you have different missions in mind?

    Could you provide some examples of how a crewed mission would "
    analyze and return significantly more science than an uncrewed mission"?

    All of the enormous costs of just one crewed mission could be used to design, build and launch a considerable number of sophisticated robotic missions. One rover to Mars is a couple billion (dollars). One manned Mars mission is variously estimated between 500 billion and 2 trillion (dollars).

    Where is the need for humans on any such missions that robotic missions cannot accomplish? It certainly seems possible that people are needed for some of these, but I fail to understand what that could be. All current and past robotic missions have humans at the controls, telling the robots what to do. Why do humans need to go along?
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    Leaving out the astronauts extends the range, increases the payload available to instruments and reduces the costs of any space exploration mission. I think the foundations of space exploration are in Astronomy, not Exploration; observation at a distance is normal.

    However, marketing of space agencies and missions (and space companies) is largely built on maintaining popular support and taxpayer funding - even the "private" space companies rely heavily on servicing government contracts and would not be commercially viable without them. People living and working and finding opportunities in space is the heavily marketed overarching dream, or perhaps the dangling carrot. On the face of it an astronaut is more versatile - when all the conditions for them to work safely and effectively are provided - but the reality is providing those conditions is extraordinarily difficult and expensive and limits the reach of a mission, as well as the instrument payload.

    The ideal of in person, gloves on "exploration" better reflects what enthusiasts wish was so (people going out there where no-one has gone before, exploring and finding exciting opportunities) rather than the harsh reality that probes go further, do it better and last longer. Return is optional, extending that range further still. The reality is most of the objectives of space exploration missions to date could not even have been reached or achieved at all had any people been included - 3,000 days of Curiosity, roving around Mars for example. Even with people on site the kinds of data gathered are best analyzed by labs and experts back on Earth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post
    In your original post you noted : "Personally, I support uncrewed missions".

    Now you are posting "
    I consider crewed exploration is the way to go." One might assume you have different missions in mind?

    Could you provide some examples of how a crewed mission would "
    analyze and return significantly more science than an uncrewed mission"?

    All of the enormous costs of just one crewed mission could be used to design, build and launch a considerable number of sophisticated robotic missions. One rover to Mars is a couple billion (dollars). One manned Mars mission is variously estimated between 500 billion and 2 trillion (dollars).

    Where is the need for humans on any such missions that robotic missions cannot accomplish? It certainly seems possible that people are needed for some of these, but I fail to understand what that could be. All current and past robotic missions have humans at the controls, telling the robots what to do. Why do humans need to go along?
    I support more uncrewed missions because they are cheaper and more important secure because people don`t take part in them (That I have already mentioned) But still crewed missions is more efficient in taking samples etc. There are a lot of stuff that technology cannot do without humans, that is why I consider both types of missions are important.
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    So the primary question remains:

    Where or what is the need for humans on any such missions that robotic assets alone cannot accomplish?

    Some have suggested that
    there are a lot of stuff that technology cannot do without humans. In this case, they meant "going along on the space mission".

    Again, someone please provide details as to what these might be. It certainly is possible, but what are they?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post
    So the primary question remains:

    Where or what is the need for humans on any such missions that robotic assets alone cannot accomplish?

    Some have suggested that
    there are a lot of stuff that technology cannot do without humans. In this case, they meant "going along on the space mission".

    Again, someone please provide details as to what these might be. It certainly is possible, but what are they?
    I meant that uncrewed missions are more secure and cheaper ( that things I`ve mentioned 2 times before) But there stuff technology cannot do. Could the same tools and computer dig up and do wet chemistry on soil samples, assemble a telescope, and change a tyre when the buggy hit a rock?The fact is that the best machine for answering the questions that interest humans, or fixing things that you didn't expect to go wrong, is another human.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bearnard bale66 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post
    So the primary question remains:

    Where or what is the need for humans on any such missions that robotic assets alone cannot accomplish?

    Some have suggested that
    there are a lot of stuff that technology cannot do without humans. In this case, they meant "going along on the space mission".

    Again, someone please provide details as to what these might be. It certainly is possible, but what are they?
    I meant that uncrewed missions are more secure and cheaper ( that things I`ve mentioned 2 times before) But there stuff technology cannot do. Could the same tools and computer dig up and do wet chemistry on soil samples, assemble a telescope, and change a tyre when the buggy hit a rock?The fact is that the best machine for answering the questions that interest humans, or fixing things that you didn't expect to go wrong, is another human.
    I think if humans do go it will be where probes and rovers have already explored and surveyed. Whatever humans will be doing there, it won't be so they can explore!

    Remote devices will continue to do the exploring; humans can't even get close. Flexibility and redundancy built in the planning and design stage of uncrewed exploration missions is still cheaper and easier and more effective than sending astronauts. Not only will having people along mean more things that can go wrong, the consequences are more serious when they do. Curiosity losing mobility is a disappointment but a crewed Mars vehicle losing mobility will be human tragedy.

    Better a telescope that goes out pre-assembled or is self assembling and a remote device be equipped to do chemical analysis because you are adding another layer of equipment needs and skills, for repair and maintenance on top of human requirements. No repair job under such conditions would be simple; equipment had better be 100% reliable, for an environment where equipment failure means death.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken Fabos View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by bearnard bale66 View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Double Helix View Post
    So the primary question remains:

    Where or what is the need for humans on any such missions that robotic assets alone cannot accomplish?

    Some have suggested that
    there are a lot of stuff that technology cannot do without humans. In this case, they meant "going along on the space mission".

    Again, someone please provide details as to what these might be. It certainly is possible, but what are they?
    I meant that uncrewed missions are more secure and cheaper ( that things I`ve mentioned 2 times before) But there stuff technology cannot do. Could the same tools and computer dig up and do wet chemistry on soil samples, assemble a telescope, and change a tyre when the buggy hit a rock?The fact is that the best machine for answering the questions that interest humans, or fixing things that you didn't expect to go wrong, is another human.
    I think if humans do go it will be where probes and rovers have already explored and surveyed. Whatever humans will be doing there, it won't be so they can explore!

    Remote devices will continue to do the exploring; humans can't even get close. Flexibility and redundancy built in the planning and design stage of uncrewed exploration missions is still cheaper and easier and more effective than sending astronauts. Not only will having people along mean more things that can go wrong, the consequences are more serious when they do. Curiosity losing mobility is a disappointment but a crewed Mars vehicle losing mobility will be human tragedy.

    Better a telescope that goes out pre-assembled or is self assembling and a remote device be equipped to do chemical analysis because you are adding another layer of equipment needs and skills, for repair and maintenance on top of human requirements. No repair job under such conditions would be simple; equipment had better be 100% reliable, for an environment where equipment failure means death.
    Yeah, you are right, that is a good point. Uncrewed missions are more secure and cheaper. That makes them more frequently used in space exploration process. Unfortunately, ( as I have already mentioned) there are some cases where technology cannot manage particular issues without humans
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