Notices
Results 1 to 15 of 15

Thread: Is it scientifically impossible to recreate our universe in the lab?

  1. #1 Is it scientifically impossible to recreate our universe in the lab? 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    2
    Please, this question may sound damn, but I would like any of you who read this to step back a little and think through it.

    I have been wondering for quite sometime about our universe. I have read few books including the bible (old testament of course) and come to question whether it is possible for human to recreate a universe in a smaller scale (lab). First consider the three important (Time, Space (vacuum), Matters). Is it possible?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by gthich View Post
    Please, this question may sound damn, but I would like any of you who read this to step back a little and think through it.

    I have been wondering for quite sometime about our universe. I have read few books including the bible (old testament of course) and come to question whether it is possible for human to recreate a universe in a smaller scale (lab). First consider the three important (Time, Space (vacuum), Matters). Is it possible?
    Maybe. Alan Guth and Edward Farhi at MIT both wrote a paper on just that subject

    MIT Department of Physics
    Working with Prof. Edward Farhi and others, Guth has explored the question of whether it is in principle possible to ignite inflation in a hypothetical laboratory, thereby creating a new universe. The answer is a definite maybe. They showed that it cannot be done classically, but with quantum tunneling it might be theoretically possible. The new universe, if it can be created, would not endanger our own universe. Instead it would slip through a wormhole and rapidly disconnect completely.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Bachelors Degree GoldenRatio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    415
    Quote Originally Posted by gthich View Post
    I have read few books including the bible (old testament of course)
    Not my first choice when it comes to scientific inquiry's but to each their own.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Posts
    2
    Thank you for that response. I guess I haven't come a cross their paper and will definitely look for it. This is quite interesting. I believe one day someone may be lucky enough to work this out. Just a thought.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    8,046
    In order for the recreation to have all the detail of the original universe, it would need to contain just as much information. There is a such a thing as irreducible complexity. You can't encode all the quantum information about all the atoms and subatomic particles in the whole universe into anything less than an equal amount of atoms and subatomic particles.


    The reason computer models are successful is because they aren't required to have all the detail present in the thing to be modeled. They're only approximate.
    Some clocks are only right twice a day, but they are still right when they are right.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by gthich View Post
    Thank you for that response. I guess I haven't come a cross their paper and will definitely look for it. This is quite interesting. I believe one day someone may be lucky enough to work this out. Just a thought.
    Look no further

    Is it possible to create a universe in the laboratory by quantum tunneling? by Edward Farhi, Alan Guth and Jemal Guven, Nuclear Physics , B339, (1990)
    Is it possible to create a universe in the laboratory by quantum tunneling? | Edward Farhi; Alan H. Guth; Jemal Guven | digital library booksc

    An obstacle to creating a universe in the laboratory by Edward Farhi and Alan Guth, Physics Letters B, Jan 8, 1987
    An obstacle to creating a universe in the laboratory | Edward Farhi; Alan H. Guth | digital library booksc
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    In order for the recreation to have all the detail of the original universe, ...
    Why would anybody want that?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Junior
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Posts
    203
    Quote Originally Posted by physicist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    In order for the recreation to have all the detail of the original universe, ...
    Why would anybody want that?
    If we live in an extremely large inflationary universe, anything possible may happen a very large number of time, including intelligences creating universes.

    What I find interesting is that it MAY not be that hard to create a universe, if one is able to provoke an inflation. Inflation is basically a huge free lunch where the energy/matter created is phenomenal from almost zero initial energy.

    This can be compared to growing a tree from a seed. Is it necessary to know all about genetics and biology about the tree to make it grow? No. Just use the natural reproduction phenomenon and that tree to grow by itself. Same for making universes. It may not be necessary to know all about the nature of space time for that ( string theory, QLG... ). Just find a way to provoke the inflation, that's it. Maybe an intelligence may be capable of creating universes without ever knowing all the detail about them. This to say that the creator does not have to be that intelligent and complex (like us), which would render its existence more likely.

    That's a problem with theists. They always assume that it requires an infinite intelligence to have created the universe. There is no reason for that. It requires a certain level of intelligence, that's all.

    I wouldn't say that our universe has been created by an intelligence in another universe, of course it is speculative, but it might be interesting to make scientific theories with this idea, especially now that inflation seems to have been confirmed.

    BTW, I have heard an interview with Brian Greene where he was speculating about the possibility of provoking an inflation by doing something to a mini black hole. Unfortunately he didn't give more details.
    Last edited by Nic321; August 30th, 2014 at 11:47 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    91
    Quote Originally Posted by Nic321
    What I find interesting is that it MAY not be that hard to create a universe, if one is able to provoke an inflation.
    Same here. I'd love to see the reaction to this by some of the Christians I used to know. Lol!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    If the created universe was ever able to re-establish connectivity with ours we might be slapped with one hell of a child support bill.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Ph.D.
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    985
    as a primary precondition of any "universe in a lab" experiment we would need a Zero G environment. Pretty hard to get that. Free fall might work but also might not.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,014
    If it were not impossible it would then be easy...
    To create a universe you need the component parts of a Universe to make one..... and as the only one we know of is tearing itself apart at a ever increasing rate.
    That would be a NO.
    Not a maybe. Not a perhaps.. Just NO.
    ~ Talking of a Universe as if you could just use some parts and scale it down.. Then it's a Galaxy or a Star maybe.. As has been mentioned, computer models might lead to a greater understanding.. The word Universe does mean All of Everything..
    We can only speculate the mass of the Universe as so much of it is a unknown quantity.. Dark Energy and Dark mater and that we know so little of the trigger of The Big Bang..
    Can we hope to know how to build a Universe.. No. We do NOT understand how or why there is one.. Until that changes, and it may never.. we can but guess.. best guess, speculate, model, predict.. and I see you mentioned a God. That's passing the buck. The question would still remain; From whence did this God come.. and the answer is still no.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,014
    Please disregard this posting if you do not see the humor of it...
    ~ "Once upon a time about 13.7 billion Earth years ago a Awfully Big Bang begun the expansion of the whole of the Universe.. This happened when a group of Physicists thought they might recreate the Universe by creating a little big Bang.. and that it happened like that and will again, and again... forever.."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,169
    Quote Originally Posted by Sealeaf View Post
    as a primary precondition of any "universe in a lab" experiment we would need a Zero G environment. Pretty hard to get that. Free fall might work but also might not.
    I am not disagreeing, but I don't understand why. Could you explain?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    ***** Participant Write4U's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    1,242
    In order to even begin to create a mini universe, we need to know the reason for and functions of Dark Matter and Dark Energy, which apparently are two of the dynamic forces required for a universe.

    This brought to mind the recent interest in CDT (causal dynamic triangulation).

    It occurred to me that "if" the universe is a fractal system, then the Mandelbrot set would be a representation of the totality and structure of the universe.

    Would it be possible for a mathematician to figure out the ratio of the dark (confined fractal) portion of this set and compare it to the ratio of Dark Matter (or Dark Energy) of our universe? If these ratios are comparable, should we be able to build this mini universe with a fractal representation?

    I know this is a very abstract idea, however, intuition tells me that, if the universe is founded on a fractal (CDT), the Mandelbrot set would include the answer to the fabric of space all the way down to Planck scale. Does this question make sense?
    "Art is the creation of that which evokes an emotional response, leading to thoughts of the noblest kind" (W4U)
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Are you scientifically literate?
    By Strange in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: April 25th, 2012, 06:49 PM
  2. It is impossible!
    By precious in forum Personal Theories & Alternative Ideas
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: December 19th, 2011, 10:17 AM
  3. Nothing is Impossible
    By korben in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 46
    Last Post: June 20th, 2010, 02:27 AM
  4. Universe in the lab?
    By wallaby in forum Physics
    Replies: 14
    Last Post: July 24th, 2009, 03:56 PM
  5. Where a god might come from, scientifically.
    By KALSTER in forum Scientific Study of Religion
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: May 11th, 2009, 08:49 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •