Notices
Results 1 to 8 of 8
Like Tree7Likes
  • 2 Post By Harold14370
  • 2 Post By Janus
  • 2 Post By Janus
  • 1 Post By astromark

Thread: Is it possible that the sun is revolving around a massive host star???

  1. #1 Is it possible that the sun is revolving around a massive host star??? 
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    184
    I have got this idea based on the following:

    1. Sirius ---- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius

    "In 1868, Sirius became the first star to have its velocity measured. Sir William Huggins examined the spectrum of this star and observed a noticeable red shift. He concluded that Sirius was receding from the Solar System at about 40 km/s, Compared to the modern value of −7.6 km/s. The minus means it is approaching the Sun."
    So, Sir William found that Sirius is receding from the Earth at a speed of 40 km/s. Today we know that Sirius is actually approaching to us at a velocity of 7.6 km/s.
    Currently, the science estimates that Sir William made a severe error in his verification.
    However, the gap is quite significant. The radial velocity had been changed from plus to minus. Therefore, there is a possibility that there was some change in the radial velocity of Sirius in the last 150 years. But, how could it be?
    "Sirius is the brightest star in the night sky". It was already known in ancient Egypt.
    In the recorded history it had been found that each time it had a different color. Blue, Red and even White. How could it be?
    I assume that Sirius could change colors if there is a change in its radial velocity or in its direction.
    So, how come that Sirius changes its radial velocity and direction?
    The following example could give an answer:
    Let's look at the Earth and Mars. Both stars are revolving around the same host star – the Sun. Therefore, sometimes they are approaching to each other and sometimes they are receding from each other.
    Therefore, there is a possibility that Sun and Sirius share the same host star. Hence, they behave like planets in a different disc system. There is also a possibility that each one of them has a different host star.

    1. Radial velocity of nearby stars. List of nearest stars - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    There are about 53 stars in this list. NONE of them is moving in the same velocity as the sun. How could it be?
    If the stars which are closer to the sun are moving at different velocity, then we can estimate that most of the stars in our spiral arms are moving in different velocity and direction.
    This could break the structure of the arm after long enough time. But we all know that the arm is there. - In any spiral arm.
    Therefore, the only possibility is that those stars are revolving around some host stars.
    Hence, it is possible that each time there is a change in their radial velocity comparing the sun, but in reality, they all stay in the same aria.
    Do you agree???


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Freshman
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    44
    Well, maybe a star, or maybe not a star, but the Sun is (I think it's a fact, I may be wrong) revolving around something. That something is revolving around another thing. It just continues.


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,408
    It is a good idea, possible, but how do you put legs under it so it can stand?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,795
    The sun rotates around the galactic center. If we had a companion star, I think we'd see it, wouldn't we? The change in color of Sirius is questionable. We had a thread about it here.
    Sirius Color Change Mystery
    umbradiago and MindlessMath like this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Moderator Moderator Janus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,155
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lee View Post
    I have got this idea based on the following:
    If the stars which are closer to the sun are moving at different velocity, then we can estimate that most of the stars in our spiral arms are moving in different velocity and direction.
    This could break the structure of the arm after long enough time. But we all know that the arm is there. - In any spiral arm.
    Except spiral arms aren't formed by groups of stars moving together, but rather compression waves sweeping through the galaxy, so the individual motions of the stars are not a factor in their structure.

    Also, in addition to our not seeing any Host star, you would have to show that the various motions of the stars were actually compatible with their orbiting another star. ( the radial velocities would take a on a given pattern constrained by orbital mechanics)

    There is a lower limit to how massive such star could be. For example, Alpha Centauri has a radial velocity of -21 km/sec. Even at only a distance of 1 light year, in order for a Host star to maintain a hold on Alpha C with it moving at this speed, the host star would have to have a mass of at least 16,537 times that of the Sun. If you are talking about a group of local stars orbiting the same host star, you are talking about something many many times more massive.
    KALSTER and umbradiago like this.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


    Edit/Delete Message
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Israel
    Posts
    184
    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    Except spiral arms aren't formed by groups of stars moving together, but rather compression waves sweeping through the galaxy, so the individual motions of the stars are not a factor in their structure.

    Thanks Janus
    O.K. but how can we explain the difference in the radial velocity of all the nearby stars. Is it possible that this wave could change the radial velocity of a star?
    Just think what could be the outcome if those stars will keep the radial velocity… they could potentially collide with each other.
    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    There is a lower limit to how massive such star could be. For example, Alpha Centauri has a radial velocity of -21 km/sec. Even at only a distance of 1 light year, in order for a Host star to maintain a hold on Alpha C with it moving at this speed, the host star would have to have a mass of at least 16,537 times that of the Sun. If you are talking about a group of local stars orbiting the same host star, you are talking about something many many times more massive.

    With regards to the example of Alpha Centauri.
    Its mass is 1.1 of the Sun mass and its Luminosity is 1.519 of the Sun.
    I assume that you have set a calculation of the requested mass for a host star which is located at a distance of 1 light year.
    But, there is a chance that host star is located much closer to Alpha Centauri. In this case, it could be much smaller in its requested mass.
    Therefore, if the host star was close enough to Alpha Centauri, it could set the revolving motion at a significantly lower mass.
    That host star could be a massive dark star or even some sort of a small black hole.
    Hence, we might not see it, but it is there.
    There is even a possibility that there are several massive dark stars or black holes for each sun like star. Hence, the combination of those dark massive stars or black holes could potentially create this revolving motion in the Alpha Centauri.
    Technically, even if the host star was in the size of the sun it could set some kind of revolving motion. (However, I assume that in this case it will be considered as a binary star instead of a host star).
    So, there is a chance that Sir William have set a correct verification of the Sirius radial velocity. There is also a chance that the ancient Egyptian had seen the correct color of Sirius.
    Hence, there is a possibility that this star is revolving around something…
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Moderator Moderator Janus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Posts
    2,155
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Lee View Post
    O.K. but how can we explain the difference in the radial velocity of all the nearby stars. Is it possible that this wave could change the radial velocity of a star?
    Just think what could be the outcome if those stars will keep the radial velocity… they could potentially collide with each other.
    But these stars don't just have radial velocity, they also have proper motion ( for instance, Alpha C's proper motion is 23 km/sec, which means it will come nowhere near hitting the Sun). The present radial and proper velocities of the neighboring stars are most easily explained by differences in their orbits around the center of the galaxy from ours. Either in eccentricity, inclination or both. Our own sun's orbital velocity around the center of the Galaxy is 220 km/sec, so the relative velocities of the other stars are well within range to be due to such variations. You also have to consider just how thinly the stars are spread out, there is a lot of space out there for them to miss each other in. The occasions of even near misses would be few and far between.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    There is a lower limit to how massive such star could be. For example, Alpha Centauri has a radial velocity of -21 km/sec. Even at only a distance of 1 light year, in order for a Host star to maintain a hold on Alpha C with it moving at this speed, the host star would have to have a mass of at least 16,537 times that of the Sun. If you are talking about a group of local stars orbiting the same host star, you are talking about something many many times more massive.

    With regards to the example of Alpha Centauri.
    Its mass is 1.1 of the Sun mass and its Luminosity is 1.519 of the Sun.
    I assume that you have set a calculation of the requested mass for a host star which is located at a distance of 1 light year.
    But, there is a chance that host star is located much closer to Alpha Centauri. In this case, it could be much smaller in its requested mass.
    Therefore, if the host star was close enough to Alpha Centauri, it could set the revolving motion at a significantly lower mass.
    That host star could be a massive dark star or even some sort of a small black hole.
    Hence, we might not see it, but it is there.
    There is even a possibility that there are several massive dark stars or black holes for each sun like star. Hence, the combination of those dark massive stars or black holes could potentially create this revolving motion in the Alpha Centauri.
    Technically, even if the host star was in the size of the sun it could set some kind of revolving motion. (However, I assume that in this case it will be considered as a binary star instead of a host star).
    A typical stellar black hole masses at ~10 solar masses. If Alpha C's radial velocity were due to its orbiting such a black hole, then orbital mechanics would demand that it would have to orbit said black hole with a period of 81 years. In even a fraction of this time we would have noted a change in Alpha C's radial and proper motion that would have betrayed the existence of the mass it was orbiting. There would have also been noticeable effect on the respective orbits of Alpha C A and B. The fact that these other stars were orbiting other more massive bodies is not something that could have been missed.

    In the case of Sir William's measurement, it is not as if he measured it in 1868, and then nobody else measured it until just recently. There have been numerable measurements in between. And these would have shown a gradual change in the radial velocity over time if the difference between his and today's values were actually due to a real change in radial velocity. There would also have to have been a corresponding change in the measured proper motion if this was due to its orbiting some other body. Neither of these has been the case.

    The idea that the various radial and proper velocities of stars are due to their orbiting other bodies just isn't viable. We have enough observational data spread out over enough years to rule this out.
    KALSTER and astromark like this.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


    Edit/Delete Message
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Forum Professor astromark's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    1,015
    Without 'ALL' of the information it is easy to jump to the wrong conclusions..
    Alpha Cent., is a double star system. Much is known of both stars..
    A third component Proxima Cent., Is thought to be orbiting both.
    Sirius has a companion star.. These are things we know.. and we know there is not a 'OTHER' large body stars... this close.
    We do however now 'know' thanks to the work of Kepler and others of smaller dark stars.
    None of which play any roll in star motion direction. That Sol and the Alpha group do have a gravity effect is known and calculable.
    Wild and unfounded speculations are the work of the fiction writers.. leave it there..
    dan hunter likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. What if, A Black Hole was absorbed by a massive star?
    By MrMojo1 in forum Astronomy & Cosmology
    Replies: 29
    Last Post: May 12th, 2012, 03:38 PM
  2. need to host a website that can run kmz files!
    By hlanderson93 in forum Computer Science
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 20th, 2010, 03:40 AM
  3. Any Web Host suggestions?
    By icewendigo in forum Computer Science
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: March 4th, 2009, 08:56 PM
  4. sun's sister star
    By Darth Lord Sidious in forum Astronomy & Cosmology
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: February 26th, 2008, 03:34 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •