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Thread: Black Hole Instability

  1. #1 Black Hole Instability 
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    More of a curiosity than a straight forward question.

    Has anyone ever done research into the possibility of a black hole becoming unstable and exploding? or what would require for a black hole to explode and become unstable? especially the massive ones that we have been discovering lately?


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    Forum Professor pyoko's Avatar
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    Hawking Radiation or the formation of a micro black hole in a collider, which would be a forced black hole and last only a moment.


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    Quote Originally Posted by pyoko View Post
    Hawking Radiation or the formation of a micro black hole in a collider, which would be a forced black hole and last only a moment.
    besides the hawking radiation... I am thinking more along the lines where the mass of the black hole which wants to rip it apart exceeds the capability of the gravity to hold it together.

    In stars it would be a super nova
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    Well, if the supernova is not massive enough, it doesn't form a black hole. Perhaps a neutron star. Or just a dead star. If it is massive enough, the more mass it has the stronger it is. The black hole mass would not "rip it apart". An example are supermassive black holes, that are just monsters. Are you maybe looking for the mass of a star/ black hole that is an exact limit where a black hole either forms or it doesn't? A sort of threshold?
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    No im thinking about super massive black holes, how big would it need to be to contain all the mass in the visible universe and if something like that actually existed what would make it "spill its guts" and explode. Thanks for the assistance with the clarity on the question

    http://www.nature.com/news/did-a-hyp...iverse-1.13743
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Always.Asking View Post
    besides the hawking radiation... I am thinking more along the lines where the mass of the black hole which wants to rip it apart exceeds the capability of the gravity to hold it together.

    In stars it would be a super nova
    There is nothing about mass that would want to rip it apart. More mass = more gravity.

    A supernova is quite different, there you have an explosion which, like any conventional explosion, is caused by a runaway reaction (nuclear in this case) which blows material away. There is nothing we know of that can stop or reverse the collapse of a black hole.
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    Could the other forces be responsible or has someone done work on this to show that they are not enough to pull a black hole apart

    1. Gravity - This force acts between all
    mass in the universe and it has infinite range.

    2. Electromagnetic - This acts between electrically charged particles. Electricity, magnetism, and light are all produced by this force and it also has infinite range.
    3. The Strong Force - This force binds neutrons and protons together in the cores of atoms and is a short range force.
    4. Weak Force - This causes Beta decay (the conversion of a neutron to a proton, an electron and an antineutrino) and various particles (the "strange" ones) are formed by strong interactions but decay via weak interactions (that's what's strange about "strangeness"). Like the strong force, the weak force is also short range.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Always.Asking View Post
    Could the other forces be responsible or has someone done work on this to show that they are not enough to pull a black hole apart
    If there is not enough mass to form a black hole after a supernova, then the remains form a neutron star. This is prevented from collapsing further by degeneracy pressure. In principle, you could break up or extract some of the material (although it would require infeasibly large amounts of energy) because it is just a particularly dense form of matter.

    However, if there is enough mass to form a black hole then things are very different. A black hole isn't really a "thing" it isn't made of "stuff" that you could break up. It is a region where space-time is so curved that nothing can escape. That is not a problem of having a strong enough force or something. Basically, there is no direction that is "out" and so nothing can leave the black hole.

    But... that is based purely on our current best theory (general relativity) which does not take into account quantum theory. It may turn out that a theory of quantum gravity changes this model in some way. (See, for example, the current debates about Hawking's idea that event horizons may not be as we imagine them; Susskind and other's ideas about "firewalls". This is a very active area of research.)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Always.Asking View Post
    Could the other forces be responsible or has someone done work on this to show that they are not enough to pull a black hole apart
    If there is not enough mass to form a black hole after a supernova, then the remains form a neutron star. This is prevented from collapsing further by degeneracy pressure. In principle, you could break up or extract some of the material (although it would require infeasibly large amounts of energy) because it is just a particularly dense form of matter.

    However, if there is enough mass to form a black hole then things are very different. A black hole isn't really a "thing" it isn't made of "stuff" that you could break up. It is a region where space-time is so curved that nothing can escape. That is not a problem of having a strong enough force or something. Basically, there is no direction that is "out" and so nothing can leave the black hole.

    But... that is based purely on our current best theory (general relativity) which does not take into account quantum theory. It may turn out that a theory of quantum gravity changes this model in some way. (See, for example, the current debates about Hawking's idea that event horizons may not be as we imagine them; Susskind and other's ideas about "firewalls". This is a very active area of research.)
    Thats more inline with the answer I was looking for thanks so much
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  11. #10  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    You're welcome!
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