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Thread: Question about blackholes and whiteholes, and multiverses?

  1. #1 Question about blackholes and whiteholes, and multiverses? 
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    1) Have whiteholes(matter spewing out from a point) been observed/detected/found in our universe? Or is it a theory?
    2) If blackholes(in our dimension) are entrance-portals, with whiteholes as exit-portals(in respective dimensions), why do matter stay in the blackhole, and not disappear(via the exit)?
    3) Is it true to say: "The blackhole:whitehole ratio is 1:1"?
    4) If the multiverse-theory is false, will the entire whitehole-theory collapse together with it?
    5) I understand exotic matter can have less mass than light, but is there such thing as negative-mass?
    6) If time is considered a vector in the multiverse-theory, why can't there be negative-time(since time is a universal law, and may vary in alternate dimensions, why doesn't any particular universes' time go backwards?)?
    7) Do you think it is logical for a universe to have no-end(same for no beginning)? And is this theory possible?


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    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    1) Have whiteholes(matter spewing out from a point) been observed/detected/found in our universe? Or is it a theory?
    There is no observational evidence, it is purely conjecture.

    2) If blackholes(in our dimension) are entrance-portals, with whiteholes as exit-portals(in respective dimensions), why do matter stay in the blackhole, and not disappear(via the exit)?
    Perhaps that is because "white holes" don't exist. Even if they do, there is no plausible mechanism for them to be connected to black holes, except via constructs such as wormholes, which are just as hypothetical.

    3) Is it true to say: "The blackhole:whitehole ratio is 1:1"?
    No, this is not supported by either theory nor observation.

    4) If the multiverse-theory is false, will the entire whitehole-theory collapse together with it?
    These models aren't necessarily connected. You could have white holes without any "other" universes existing.

    5) I understand exotic matter can have less mass than light, but is there such thing as negative-mass?
    There is no evidence, or even consistent theoretical support, for the existence of such a thing as "negative mass".

    6) If time is considered a vector in the multiverse-theory, why can't there be negative-time(since time is a universal law, and may vary in alternate dimensions, why doesn't any particular universes' time go backwards?)?
    We can only meaningfully apply our law of physics to our universe; the answer would then be that the second law of thermodynamics pretty much rules out time running ( globally ) backwards.

    7) Do you think it is logical for a universe to have no-end(same for no beginning)? And is this theory possible?
    Yes, both scenarios are logical, though not necessarily in accordance to observational data.


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    Quote Originally Posted by RamenNoodles View Post
    1) Have whiteholes(matter spewing out from a point) been observed/detected/found in our universe? Or is it a theory?
    2) If blackholes(in our dimension) are entrance-portals, with whiteholes as exit-portals(in respective dimensions), why do matter stay in the blackhole, and not disappear(via the exit)?
    3) Is it true to say: "The blackhole:whitehole ratio is 1:1"?
    4) If the multiverse-theory is false, will the entire whitehole-theory collapse together with it?
    5) I understand exotic matter can have less mass than light, but is there such thing as negative-mass?
    6) If time is considered a vector in the multiverse-theory, why can't there be negative-time(since time is a universal law, and may vary in alternate dimensions, why doesn't any particular universes' time go backwards?)?
    7) Do you think it is logical for a universe to have no-end(same for no beginning)? And is this theory possible?
    1) It's a mathematical inverse of a black hole. The idea is that the Big Bang is our "evidence" of a white hole.
    2) Because matter cannot pass the event horizon (except at infinity).
    3) A white hole would necessarily have to have a black hole to exist.
    4) It's untestable. So in that sense, it's hardly even a theory.
    5) Um... less mass than light would be negative mass, and I don't know of any evidence to suggest it exists.
    6) Because time is a human concept, and concepts are essentially metaphors. It's not a "dimension" or "vector" in the same sense that we use such words to describe "space".
    7) I think it's possible that we have no idea what the cause of the universe was, and that we will never know. All we know is what is. Doesn't stop us from trying to find out though! ~_^
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    Moderator Moderator Markus Hanke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velexia View Post
    2) Because matter cannot pass the event horizon (except at infinity).
    This is incorrect as demonstrated already on the other thread, so please stop posting this in response to other member's questions as if it were fact. Matter does pass the event horizon, it's just that a distant observer in his own frame won't observe or measure that passage. That does not mean that an infalling observer in his own frame never crosses the horizon.

    3) A white hole would necessarily have to have a black hole to exist.
    That is not how I understand the white hole metric. Citation needed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markus Hanke View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Velexia View Post
    A white hole would necessarily have to have a black hole to exist.
    That is not how I understand the white hole metric. Citation needed.
    A point of clarification is needed here:

    The Schwarzschild solution is bidirectional due to the time-symmetry of the metric. In Kruskal-Szekeres coordinates, there are two singularities: the past singularity and the future singularity. Objects entering the hole go to the future singularity. Objects exiting the hole come from the past singularity. In the case of a blackhole formed from collapsed matter, it is generally regarded that there is no past singularity because in the past was the uncollapsed matter and not the blackhole. Therefore, such a blackhole is unidirectional: objects fall in and go to the future singularity.
    There are no paradoxes in relativity, just people's misunderstandings of it.
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    1. Well by your definition of "spewing out from a point" objects such as white dwarfs and black holes hit thresholds for amount of matter it accretes and form supernovae and quasars? Which essentially is spewing out matter it had in it. But as far as entering and coming out on another side or dimension, I doubt there's proof for that yet.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cudamerica View Post
    1. Well by your definition of "spewing out from a point" objects such as white dwarfs and black holes hit thresholds for amount of matter it accretes and form supernovae and quasars? Which essentially is spewing out matter it had in it. But as far as entering and coming out on another side or dimension, I doubt there's proof for that yet.

    Or maybe that's simply radiation. Not sure on that actually
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Velexia View Post
    6) Because time is a human concept, and concepts are essentially metaphors. It's not a "dimension" or "vector" in the same sense that we use such words to describe "space".
    from how i understand about what you are saying, if dimensions does not make sense/exist, why do people talk about matter transference between dimensions?
    Quote Originally Posted by jocular View Post
    If thy right nipple offend thee, pluck it off! Goes for the other, too!
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