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Thread: Does the earth travel in a spiral round the sun as the sun is travelling round the milky way

  1. #1 Does the earth travel in a spiral round the sun as the sun is travelling round the milky way 
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    QUESTION: i have recently seen a documentary about how the earth and other solar system planets travel in a sprial shape round the sun because the fact that the sun is moving round the galaxy in a spiral and how galaxys are spiral shape. our hair line is a spiral, weather is a spiral, everything is spirals, gravity is a spiral more than a circle. it is very convincing, i may not be right in all my comments but the principal is still the same and i am very convinced. and the reason we dont notice is the same reason that if there was people the size of nanos under our feat they wouldnt be able to determine what us humans looked like because of the size. i call it the teeny weeny theory!! we are so small in comparison to the galaxy and as everything else is moving towards thje same thing(the cnetre of the galaxy(is that right?)or if not everything is still being pushed the same way..in a spiral!

    So i want clarifacation from someone who is intelligent in this field of cosmology! theres so much BS online and i swear some people make stuff up and go into the detail so much just to please themselves, but people like this are just pushing us further behind. if we acted like a swarm of bees or ants for the greater good and didnt lie but put a theory out and let people say yes no or change this that etc and eventually b ecause of how many great minds are3 at work more problems will get solved alot quicker. dont you think? instead of time banks they should have mind banks where people upload work or problems or theorys they are interested in and people work on it and research it to verify it for the person so they learn more or know they were correct and then that person who has helped earns say 2 hours worth of help from someone else in there problem. and you could collect loads and put them together with other peoples and work in huge groups on a problem for someone say at uni or college/
    We will never evolve quickly and amazingly if we dont put our minds together, even not very clever people because tehyn may offer a few that shakes the memory of a highly itleeigent person and , well u know what i mean. anyway yeah if you could answer my queston it be great. anyone wana pm me and chat about the universe and science then great. cya


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  3. #2  
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    Quote Originally Posted by graemedon View Post
    QUESTION: i have recently seen a documentary about how the earth and other solar system planets travel in a sprial shape round the sun because the fact that the sun is moving round the galaxy in a spiral and how galaxys are spiral shape. our hair line is a spiral, weather is a spiral, everything is spirals, gravity is a spiral more than a circle. it is very convincing, i may not be right in all my comments but the principal is still the same and i am very convinced. and the reason we dont notice is the same reason that if there was people the size of nanos under our feat they wouldnt be able to determine what us humans looked like because of the size. i call it the teeny weeny theory!! we are so small in comparison to the galaxy and as everything else is moving towards thje same thing(the cnetre of the galaxy(is that right?)or if not everything is still being pushed the same way..in a spiral!

    So i want clarifacation from someone who is intelligent in this field of cosmology! theres so much BS online and i swear some people make stuff up and go into the detail so much just to please themselves, but people like this are just pushing us further behind. if we acted like a swarm of bees or ants for the greater good and didnt lie but put a theory out and let people say yes no or change this that etc and eventually b ecause of how many great minds are3 at work more problems will get solved alot quicker. dont you think? instead of time banks they should have mind banks where people upload work or problems or theorys they are interested in and people work on it and research it to verify it for the person so they learn more or know they were correct and then that person who has helped earns say 2 hours worth of help from someone else in there problem. and you could collect loads and put them together with other peoples and work in huge groups on a problem for someone say at uni or college/
    We will never evolve quickly and amazingly if we dont put our minds together, even not very clever people because tehyn may offer a few that shakes the memory of a highly itleeigent person and , well u know what i mean. anyway yeah if you could answer my queston it be great. anyone wana pm me and chat about the universe and science then great. cya
    No, the orbits are elliptical, though I think they may precess very slowly as well. A spiral would only be the path if the body was losing energy. I suppose if you take a sufficiently long view (billions of years) than maybe this occurs enough (due to tidal forces etc) for the paths to be seen as spiral, but on the timescale of human history at least, they are ellipses.


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    graemedon
    You do yourself a disservice by posting in bold.
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    Actually, exchemist, you have missed the point and are mistaken. It all depends upon the reference frame. If we take a sun centred reference frame then what you said is true. However, graemedon was specifically describing the situation in which the sun is not stationary, but moving around the galaxy. In that case the path of a planet is indeed a spiral. If we then reference it to, say the Andromeda galaxy, it becomes a distorted spiral.

    And to the OP, we do notice this, it just isn't especially important in any way. When we are calculating orbits for spacecraft for example I believe we can ignore our motion around the galaxy.

    You are correct about the amount of BS online. That is why you will often see members here asking for citations. What they are looking for is material from a respected textbook by a recognised authority, or - more often - a research paper published in a reputable journal and subjected to peer review. This does not eliminate BS, but it greatly reduces it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Actually, exchemist, you have missed the point and are mistaken. It all depends upon the reference frame. If we take a sun centred reference frame then what you said is true. However, graemedon was specifically describing the situation in which the sun is not stationary, but moving around the galaxy. In that case the path of a planet is indeed a spiral. If we then reference it to, say the Andromeda galaxy, it becomes a distorted spiral.

    And to the OP, we do notice this, it just isn't especially important in any way. When we are calculating orbits for spacecraft for example I believe we can ignore our motion around the galaxy.

    You are correct about the amount of BS online. That is why you will often see members here asking for citations. What they are looking for is material from a respected textbook by a recognised authority, or - more often - a research paper published in a reputable journal and subjected to peer review. This does not eliminate BS, but it greatly reduces it.
    Ah, OK. I was indeed thinking the poster was asking whether the plants travel round the sun in a spiral.
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    However, graemedon was specifically describing the situation in which the sun is not stationary, but moving around the galaxy. In that case the path of a planet is indeed a spiral. If we then reference it to, say the Andromeda galaxy, it becomes a distorted spiral.
    Perhaps the paths are closer to the old idea of epicycles than spirals.

    And to the OP, we do notice this, it just isn't especially important in any way. When we are calculating orbits for spacecraft for example I believe we can ignore our motion around the galaxy.
    This is a very important point. All motion is relative so you can choose whatever reference you want (that is most convenient). So, you can say that the Earth is weaving some complex multiply spiralling path around the universe, but you have to say what you are measuring it with reference to.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by graemedon View Post
    i have recently seen a documentary about how the earth and other solar system planets travel in a sprial shape round the sun because the fact that the sun is moving round the galaxy in a spiral and how galaxys are spiral shape. our hair line is a spiral, weather is a spiral, everything is spirals, gravity is a spiral more than a circle.
    People can, and do, get rather carried away with this idea.

    Yes, curves occur in nature for a variety of straightforward physical reasons (nearly always to do with minimising energy). Some of them even have similar forms (based on sine waves or exponential growth, for example). But this doesn't make them all the same (and it certainly doesn't make them all spirals) and it absolutely doesn't mean that it is the secret to the life, universe and everything.

    The favourite term around here, among the assorted pseudoscientists, cranks and crackpots who spout their own personal theories is "vortex" (or, even more excitingly, "vortices") for some reason.

    But it seems almost anyone can fall prey to this disease. An otherwise perfectly respectable medical researcher went somewhat overboard with his "theory of everything" based on "gyres". Read the sorry tale here:
    The Key to Everything? Not Quite.. In the Pipeline:
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by graemedon View Post
    i have recently seen a documentary about how the earth and other solar system planets travel in a sprial shape round the sun because the fact that the sun is moving round the galaxy in a spiral and how galaxys are spiral shape. our hair line is a spiral, weather is a spiral, everything is spirals, gravity is a spiral more than a circle.
    People can, and do, get rather carried away with this idea.

    Yes, curves occur in nature for a variety of straightforward physical reasons (nearly always to do with minimising energy). Some of them even have similar forms (based on sine waves or exponential growth, for example). But this doesn't make them all the same (and it certainly doesn't make them all spirals) and it absolutely doesn't mean that it is the secret to the life, universe and everything.

    The favourite term around here, among the assorted pseudoscientists, cranks and crackpots who spout their own personal theories is "vortex" (or, even more excitingly, "vortices") for some reason.

    But it seems almost anyone can fall prey to this disease. An otherwise perfectly respectable medical researcher went somewhat overboard with his "theory of everything" based on "gyres". Read the sorry tale here:
    The Key to Everything? Not Quite.. In the Pipeline:
    You know, I immediately thought of "gyres". The poet Yeats went in for a theory of gyres, I recall: W. B. Yeats and "A Vision": Geometry

    Seems like mostly balls to me, though at the time my brother first encountered Yeats in 6th Form English, I happened to be learning about spin-orbit coupling and Larmor precession in 1st year university chemistry, which seemed like an uncanny coincidence. All very crystals-and-shit.
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    Quote Originally Posted by exchemist View Post
    You know, I immediately thought of "gyres". The poet Yeats went in for a theory of gyres, I recall: W. B. Yeats and "A Vision": Geometry
    Wow, that looks an awful like some of the crank stuff posted here!
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Actually, exchemist, you have missed the point and are mistaken. It all depends upon the reference frame. If we take a sun centred reference frame then what you said is true. However, graemedon was specifically describing the situation in which the sun is not stationary, but moving around the galaxy. In that case the path of a planet is indeed a spiral. If we then reference it to, say the Andromeda galaxy, it becomes a distorted spiral.
    Actually, a distorted helix. Spiral describes something with a radius that either increases or decreases.
    "Men are apt to mistake the strength of their feelings for the strength of their argument.
    The heated mind resents the chill touch & relentless scrutiny of logic"-W.E. Gladstone


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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janus View Post
    Actually, a distorted helix. Spiral describes something with a radius that either increases or decreases.
    100% correct and yet more evidence that I am a two dimensional thinker.
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    Interesting that "helix" and "helios" (sun) are completely unrelated etymologically.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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    In reality the Earth does not rotate around the Sun....the two bodies rotate around a common center of gravity....the Sun rotates and the black hole at the cente of the galaxy rotate around a common center of gravity....then there is thought to be some rotation in our local galaxy grouping...all bodies pulling on all other bodies....including dark matter which is? All difficult to measure but basic Newtonian physics with bazillion of blips tossed in every nanosecond via quantum happenings. Anyways, not really a spiral but a convoluted path depending on a reference point.

    We're all zipping through space at billions of kms a year and, according to accelerated expansion, into newly created space.
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    would it be more accurate to say the OP is talking about the "world line" of the earth through spacetime?
    Sometimes it is better not knowing than having an answer that may be wrong.
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    That questions sorts you guys out. I'll come back and analyse who said what! It is a spiral of some sort. That is a hard question.
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