
Originally Posted by
jackson33
bogie; all you say is based on BB. there are other versions by nearly the same number of scholars that feel there was no BB and things have pretty much been there forever. they might suggest the BB suggests a beginning and infer and end, not in BB theory and that if there were no beginning there would be no end. just a procreation system, which you can see in the images Hubble gives us at regular intervals.
i used the "word" time for a reason. it would be the last element to the perfect view from any location. time can distort, though in my opinion light itself is not subject to time, only our concept and ways to observe limit the results.
with the BB, you might try to answer why all we see is so identical in each direction. this infers the bang itself had to happen so far away, that what we see is in our limits and the central point well out of sight.
makes no sense. w/o BB, the distortions etc., stand.
star's on average, probably do only last so many years on average. for the sake of discussion, lets say 10 billion years. in that ten billion years
another formed. like people if zero plus gain, was imposed. another few
million in a galaxy died and were replaced as well. at any point in the life span of a galaxy the total gain would be determined on absorption of other
systems, small dwarfs, no doubt. now for ages of galaxy, we have no idea how old they could be. if stars die, form or even eaten up by giant stars, turned "black holes", the cycle in a continuous mode and disregarding the BB, the age of a galaxy with no star over 10 billion yo, could be in the millions of billion age group or even beyond imagination. i will remind you however, science feels sol, or sun is at least 5 billion yo and considered very young; that giant stars 25 times that of ours and those thought to be black hole potentials and near centers of galaxy are only 13.7 yo. this is not consistent with nature and they may reach there limit or maturity, well before demise and live or exist much more than 30 or 50 billions years.
past poker time, but if i missed an answer, let me know and ill try again. or if you question one i really want to hear back.
Important matters first. Poker time for me has been significantly impaired by the recent law passed by Congress. My game, Party Poker closed for USA customers and I have had to move to Poker Stars. I like to play for pennies and maybe a dollar tourney once in awhile just to relax.
PLAYING -PLAY MONEY- AT PARTY AS THEY TRY TO WORK SOMETHING OUT. PREFER OMAHA AND BEST SITE FOR THAT GAME. ALSO PLAY TO RELAX AFTER PLAYING IN STOCKS ALL DAY.
You mentioned my post being based on BBT, and I can only say that I must acknowledge the observations that lead to BBT, while at the same time my bias is toward a universe that has always existed and is infinite in space and content. The content is matter and energy that, in total, has always existed.
SORRY, I GET LAMBASTED SO OFTEN, JUST THOUGHT YOU WERE COMING FROM THE BB, CAMP. WE SEEM TO HAVE SIMILAR OPINIONS ON THIS.
Matter and energy go through a cycle starting from the hot dense energy released by a big bang, and ending up in the cold dead matter that is the result of the matter/energy cycle. All of the matter condenses out of the high energy density of young big bang space, goes through the expansion during which all of the star and galaxy formation takes place, and after all of the stars have followed the expansion out into the greater universe, they die a quiet death and become the cold dead matter that then starts the cycle again by being accumulated into a big crunch.
You obviously understand the universe from the perspective of an alternative cosmology that I see as similar to the quasi-steady state. This may surprise you but so do I. Let me explain. To me, if the universe has always existed, and contains matter and energy throughout it, then it is the nature of that matter and energy to find a balance or equilibrium between the matter content and the energy content on a large scale.
THINK YOU ARE NEAR PERFECT IN YOUR PREMISE, IN MY OPINION.
The greater universe doesn’t collapse from gravity because after a small portion collapses into a big crunch, the crunch becomes a big bang. Since there would be infinite matter/energy, the crunches would be occurring all throughout the universe, and as they mature, bangs would be occurring all throughout the universe. Here we are on the expansion phase of a big bang that came from one of those big crunches.
YOU PHRASE IT A LITTLE DIFFERENT. I AM TRYING TO FIGURE IN BLACK HOLES AND THE POSSIBILITY THESE UNITS PRODUCE THE DEBRIS THAT FORM THE MATERIAL FOR THAT VIEW OF FORMATION. AT THE MOMENT I FEEL IT IS LIKELY SOME NEW SYSTEMS FORM NEAR THERE ORIGINAL GALAXY AND RE-ENTER...SO TO SPEAK.
The light in the universe comes from electromagnetic radiation that is emitted by matter. Only a narrow band of this electromagnetic radiation is in the form of visible light. Because the matter and energy in the greater universe are in equilibrium, only a portion of the energy available is actually in the form of matter. And because stars and galaxies form from existing matter and energy, there is only a portion of the available matter actually emitting visible light.
YOU PUT THIS VERY WELL. FROM GAMMA RAY TO RADIO WAVES WE SEE ONLY A PORTION. SINCE THESE ARE REGISTRABLE, YOU MIGHT CONSIDER WHAT IS NOT REGISTERED. PUT ANOTHER WAY, THERE COULD BE ADDITIONAL ITEMS ON THE "ELECTROMAGNETIC SCALE" ABOVE OR BELOW, WE ARE NOT AWARE OF.
The question is, is there enough light generated in the grand universe to light up the night sky. The obvious answer is no, because the night sky is dark. From the fact that the night sky is dark, you have to conclude one of two things. Either there isn’t enough light generated, or the universe isn’t infinite.
OK, YES THERE IS ENOUGH ACTUAL LIGHT TO LIGHT UP OUR NIGHT SKY AS WE PERCEIVE LIGHT. SIT IN A DARK ROOM FOR AN HOUR AND TURN ON THE DIMMEST OF LIGHT, YOUR VISION IS VERY HIGH, YOU SEE MOST ALL YOU WOULD IN DAYLIGHT. THIS IS PERCEPTION AND YOU HAVE ALTERED THE NORMAL CONCEPT. NOW, WHAT WE SEE IN THE SKY IS
THE RESULT OF MUCH MORE THAN LIGHT AND I SUGGEST THE DARKNESS YOU SEE IS NOT THAT FAR AWAY AND DISTURBED BY THE LIGHT THAT FLOWS THROUGH AND THAT THIS DARKNESS MAY BE THE RESULT OF PERCEPTION. I'D RATHER NOT GO THERE NOW, BUT DARKNESS ITSELF MAY BE AN ELEMENT (NOT NECESSARILY ABSENCE OF LIGHT) AND JUST NOT UNDERSTOOD.
I ALSO NEED TO ADD; WITH REFERENCE TO THE THREAD, WE ARE USING EQUIPMENT TO OBSERVE LIGHT FROM DISTANT PLACES AND THAT LIGHT WAS GENERATED BILLIONS OF YEARS AGO AND STILL GETS THROUGH.
Since I conclude that the universe is infinite, I must conclude that there isn’t enough light generated.
ANSWERED ABOVE. ASSUME THERE IS NO LIGHT WHAT SO EVER, WHAT WOULD YOU SEE IF YOU LOOKED INTO THE NIGHT SKY. IF THIS WERE POSSIBLE, I WOULD GUESS, NOT WHAT YOU DO SEE AS DARKNESS, NOW.
This is logical to me because the light comes from only a small portion of the matter/energy. I think that the balance between matter and energy in the universe does not provide enough matter at any given time to form enough stars to light up the entire universe.
AGREE, BUT THE SAME DARKNESS APPEARS BETWEEN SOLAR SYSTEMS IN A GALAXY, THAT APPEARS IN DEEP SPACE. THIS WOULD ACCOUNT OR JUSTIFY LIGHT SLIPPING THROUGH DARKNESS.
When a star burns out, the space around it goes dark. The darkness expands as the light recedes. Since there is only a brief phase of a big bang expansion that is characterized by star formation, when that period is over, that big bang goes dark and the darkness expands as the light recedes.
YES, WHEN THE LAST OF THAT KNOWN ENERGY REACHES YOUR EYE, THE LIGHT IS GONE FROM YOUR SIGHT.
If this lighting up and burning out takes place over 500 billion years, by the time the expansion reaches the original volume of space from which the crunch formed, the entire arena is turned off like a light bulb as the last person leaves the room. There is a light sphere expanding into the greater universe that is 500 billion light years thick, and that light sphere is followed by a darkness that lasts forever.
IN MY MIND, THE UNIVERSE HAS BEEN, WHAT IT IS NOW FOR WELL OVER ANY FIGURE YOU DREAM UP. THE TOTAL MATTER, IF ATOMS COULD BE COUNTED WOULD BE THE SAME NOW AS BACK TO THAT FIGURE, ONLY AS DIFFERENT FORMATIONS AS ONE CEASES AND A NEW ONES GENERATED. THAT IN THIS PATTERN, IF THERE WERE NO BEGINNING, THEN A NEED TO EXPLAIN AN END WOULD NOT BE REQUIRED. WHAT WE PERCEIVE AS LIGHT MAY BE UNIQUE ONLY TO US AND TO OTHER LIFE, MAY EVEN BE DARKNESS.
The next nearest big bang starts out twenty trillion light years away and also sends out a light sphere 500 billion years thick, follow by darkness.
These two light spheres move toward each other through the nineteen trillion years of darkness between them. When light spheres meet they pass by each other but everything remains dark until the light spheres reach the cold dead matter from the respective old dead bang expansions. By then the light is so disbursed, that its temperature must be in the vicinity of one degree Kelvin, hardly hot enough to be measured, let along hot enough to make the excellent black bodies of dead matter burn like stars.