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Thread: Some Questions on Astro-Physics

  1. #1 Some Questions on Astro-Physics 
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    Apologies - I first put this in Physics Section - Obviously the Wrong Place

    An Artificial Kemplerer Rosette

    One - let us Imagine that there is an artificially created Kemplerer Rosette.

    Six or Eight Earth-like Worlds, artificially created - and put into a Ring around a Star.
    These are positioned at the correct Orbital Distance to be fully habitable.

    YES - the whole arrangement is Unstable.
    However - A Civilisation which can develop the Technologies to create these Planets in the first place, and to put them into a Kemplerer Rosette - must be pretty well Advanced.
    They can put in place means to make the necessary frequent small corrections to keep the whole arrangement in place, with the Planets "orbiting" in the ideal "ring" for full Habitability.

    Simple Question - Do these Planets actually HAVE Lagrance ( Trojan ) Points ?

    If so - could they put some artificial Objects of Moon-like Mass into the Leading and Trailing Lagrange Points ??


    A Second Earth

    Two - let us Imagine that we could create an artificial Planet which is Earth-like.

    Simple Question - Could we put it in orbit around the Sun, exactly opposite to Earth ?

    If we did this, and made provision for the necessary frequent small corrections to keep it in Orbit, exactly opposite to Earth.
    Would this have serious effects on the Orbit of Earth ??
    Would this have serious effects on the Orbits of the other Planets ??

    Genuine Answers only - Please.


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    Interesting question.
    My guess would be that the biggest problem would be Jupiter upsetting any stable system.


    I believe in nothing, but trust gravity to hold me down and the electromagnetic force to stop me falling through
    Physics is the search for the best model not the truth, as only mythical beings know that.
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    For the Kemplerer Rosette System - there are no Large Planets like Jupiter.
    Nor an Asteroid Belt.
    The Outer Planets are all smallish.

    For the Second problem - yes, it is in the Solar System.
    However - if Earth is fairly stable, the oppposite "counter Earth" might be.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karakris View Post
    A Second Earth

    Two - let us Imagine that we could create an artificial Planet which is Earth-like.

    Simple Question - Could we put it in orbit around the Sun, exactly opposite to Earth ?

    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karakris View Post
    If we did this, and made provision for the necessary frequent small corrections to keep it in Orbit, exactly opposite to Earth.
    Would this have serious effects on the Orbit of Earth ??
    Would this have serious effects on the Orbits of the other Planets ??
    Yes.

    Counter-Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedFreek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karakris View Post
    A Second Earth

    Two - let us Imagine that we could create an artificial Planet which is Earth-like.

    Simple Question - Could we put it in orbit around the Sun, exactly opposite to Earth ?

    Yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Karakris View Post
    If we did this, and made provision for the necessary frequent small corrections to keep it in Orbit, exactly opposite to Earth.
    Would this have serious effects on the Orbit of Earth ??
    Would this have serious effects on the Orbits of the other Planets ??
    Yes.

    Counter-Earth - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Thank You - however, the effects of it being visible and altering Earth's Orbit somewhat - they would not be a Problem.
    Earth would be involved in the Project, in any case.
    I am even thinking of maybe TWO extra Earth Mass, Artificial Planets - at 120 degree positions.

    Still wondering about the First Question - as to whether Planets in a Kemplerer Rosette, in orbit around a Star would HAVE Lagrange Points. There are eight in one case, and six in other cases, and they all have Moons in orbit.
    We would like to put some Artificial Moons, each about 0.3 to 0.4 times Mass of the Moon, into the Leading and Trailing Lagrange Points - IF these Exist. Hmmmm ???
    If I wasn't so stupid - I might know what I was doing
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    It doesn't quite answer your question, but check out this site (requires java):

    Klemperer Rosettes

    But it seems to me that if you have a "plot device" that allows you to keep your Klemperer rosette stable, you would be able to keep an object stable at any point along the orbit, using the same means, whatever it is.

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    BTW, the idea of eight planets set in a Kemplerer rosette was used by Larry Niven in his Tales of Known Space.
    Its the way nature is!
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexG View Post
    BTW, the idea of eight planets set in a Kemplerer rosette was used by Larry Niven in his Tales of Known Space.
    You guessed my Secret - I am a Larry Niven Fan, and try to use a lot of his Ideas.

    I am the G.M. of a Sci Fi Game / Sci Fi Wargame - on another Site.
    One of our newer Allies is the "Cat People" of The Tigre Sector.

    One Central Star - Six Stars around it, in a Kemplerer Rosette.
    An "engineered" System of Star Systems.

    Central Star - Eight Earth-like Planets.
    Each of the Six Outer Stars - Six Earth-like Planets.

    The "Cat People" have been around a LOT longer than us - 250,000 years longer.
    However, they are a totally Peaceful People - no Wars for 10,000 years.
    Now, they are Arming-up to Defend themselves,
    against the Empire of the Nasty Aliens, the ones who are trying to destroy US.
    If I wasn't so stupid - I might know what I was doing
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    Hey Guys - I just cracked the solution.

    By definition - A Kemplerer Rosette can be formed of any number of discret objects.
    They do not have to be the same size, but must "balance".
    So -

    In the "gaps" between the Eight Planets - we put Eight Artificial Moons.
    In the "gaps" between the sets of Six Planets - we put Six Artificial Moons.

    Artificial Moons are Structures.
    Inner Structure 600 Km in diameter, built from Steel with outer Armour -
    space inside for almost anything, or everything. Steel occupies 1.0625% of all available space.
    Total Mass of Inner Structure - 9.6133 x 10^18 Kg. Volume of Inner Structure - 1.130973 x 10^8 Km^3.
    Around this there is a layer of Foamed Nickel Iron - 20 metres thick
    Outer Structure to 2,800 Km in diameter - Fused Magmatic Rock to a thickness of 1100 Km.
    Total Mass - 2.846197 x 10^22 Kg. Total Volume - 1.138094 x 10^10.
    Surface Area - 24,630,086 Km^3.

    The Specs for these have been Written - and all Values correctly Calculated.
    If I wasn't so stupid - I might know what I was doing
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedFreek View Post
    It doesn't quite answer your question, but check out this site (requires java):

    Klemperer Rosettes

    But it seems to me that if you have a "plot device" that allows you to keep your Klemperer rosette stable, you would be able to keep an object stable at any point along the orbit, using the same means, whatever it is.

    We have Fusion Powered Reactors - very efficient.
    We have Cancellation of Inertia - useful for Space Ships.
    We have FTL Drives - incredibly Fast - useful for Space Ships.
    We have Reaction Engines.
    We have Gravity Control Systems - Positive and Negative -
    Effectively Tractor Beams and Pressor Beams, also Artificial Gravity.

    We now also have Wormholes - needs a ring of Generator Ships are each end.

    Wormholes CAN be used on Planets - if we can crack Velocity Differences and Potential Energy Differences,
    we would have Larry Niven's "JumpShift Booths".

    Given time - we could do almost Anything
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karakris View Post
    Given time - we could do almost Anything
    So you can do anything you want, as you are defying the laws of physics in many different ways - inertial damping, FTL, gravity control etc.

    Which makes me wonder why you needed to exploit Lagrangians in the first place. :P
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    Quote Originally Posted by Karakris View Post
    Apologies - I first put this in Physics Section - Obviously the Wrong Place

    An Artificial Kemplerer Rosette

    One - let us Imagine that there is an artificially created Kemplerer Rosette.

    Six or Eight Earth-like Worlds, artificially created - and put into a Ring around a Star.
    These are positioned at the correct Orbital Distance to be fully habitable.

    YES - the whole arrangement is Unstable.
    However - A Civilisation which can develop the Technologies to create these Planets in the first place, and to put them into a Kemplerer Rosette - must be pretty well Advanced.
    They can put in place means to make the necessary frequent small corrections to keep the whole arrangement in place, with the Planets "orbiting" in the ideal "ring" for full Habitability.

    Simple Question - Do these Planets actually HAVE Lagrance ( Trojan ) Points ?

    Yes - I don't think you can create a system of more than one body that doesn't have some sort of Lagrange point. Forces will have to balance out somewhere (caveat, not proved it - merely thought about it enough to reasonably convince myself).
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    Quote Originally Posted by SpeedFreek View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Karakris View Post
    Given time - we could do almost Anything
    So you can do anything you want, as you are defying the laws of physics in many different ways - inertial damping, FTL, gravity control etc.

    Which makes me wonder why you needed to exploit Lagrangians in the first place. :P
    Well - we developed Cancelling Inertia ourselves - Actual Zero Inertia.
    That was a precursor to developing FTL.

    Gravity Control - Positive and Negative - Pos. and Neg. Gravitons, drawn through
    the "thinnies" in the separating barriers, from Parallel Universes.
    That was one we got from our Alien Allies.

    However, using all of these things requires ENERGY.
    Langrangian Points are potentially stable, or relatively stable -
    utilising existing forces of Gravity, which do NOT require Energy.
    If I wasn't so stupid - I might know what I was doing
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