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Thread: Deep space travel PART 2.

  1. #1 Deep space travel PART 2. 
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    FIRST OFF I AM VERY BAD AT ENGLISH SO I HOPE THIS THREAD WILL BE A SIMPLE TALK..

    Okay we all saw those Star Trek series.. where spaceship can turn more or less freely around the place.. either slow or fast..

    I was wondering for a long time how could that be achieved by the tech we have nowadays ..

    Problem: Deep space - lots of vacuum, etc no atmosphere..

    Then i saw tow tries that intrigued me.. On Tv show which showed certain fun type of scientific experiment: They created a vehicle that was pushed forward by using fire extinguisher, which was left open and it let out a substance under pressure.. and the vehicle moved..

    Second example i saw when i watched Mission impossible TV series, when there was one agent that fell of a spaceshutle and was floating away from orbit, but then he opened his oxygen tank (astronauts) and pressure from oxygen leaking out pushed him back to the spaceshuttle again:

    I am thinking what if the solution for deep space travel could be using matter (in small, yet highly efficiently used quantities) and under pressure it would be leaking from the container in the back ... pushing the whole vehicle forward..


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  3. #2  
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    u could use a photonic engine, alot of energy, little reaction mass.
    or radiation engine, the same thing but less energy and more mass. just barly
    a fusion reactor can speed up and ionize normal matter to high temperature and thereby increasing the momentum gained.

    then u also have nuclear bomb way. simply get alot of tiny nuclear bombs onboard. detonate them in a sage chamber that blasts all momentum in the right direction, that will be quite effient way. just sadly u´ll have to fix ur electronic ^_^

    or we can use theoretical engines
    warp drive is theoretical possible. we also got wormholes. a engine that creates a temporary wormhole from its current position in space into another part.
    but if there is higher dimensions that is possible to enter higher dimensions u can rip space apart to enter it and then go there, and then ripå it again to get into normal space.


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    BAD AT ENGLISH
    Dont worry, my english no good, but I french very well.

    saw those Star Trek series
    Although I've ejoyed Star Trek's orginal and next generation series (and the Wrath of Khan) I really liked Babylon 5. The ships and space battles are more realistic (in a fictional entertainement context) from todays perpective than ST (the 5 year story arc is also pretty good). :-D

    Deep space - lots of vacuum, etc no atmosphere
    I have a feeling that the vaccum of space in a solar system is not as vacuumy when you move at very high speeds (ex: if you travel at 60% light speed I imagine there might be a wee bit of pressure from all the stray atoms and molecues drifting around.


    using matter (in small, yet highly efficiently used quantities) and under pressure it would be leaking from the container in the back ... pushing the whole vehicle forward..
    This is quite similar to what rockets already use today, they leak high pressue gas in the rear to move forward. :wink:

    The small highly efficent version is an Ion Engine which I think has already been used or will be used in the near future for deep space satelites. The acceleration acheived is minimal, it takes a long time to achive any speed but the fuel it uses is a fraction of what conventional rockets use and it can be sustained for a very long time until you can achieve fast speeds.

    An entirely different technology I'm quite interested in is the solar sail or magnetic sail concept, which could be a complemetary means of propulsion to save on fuel. It uses the suns photons to push the craft in a maner similar to sail ships use wind. Although the acceleration is also very minimal, it is constant and over time can build up to considerable speed. The main advantage of this means of propulsion is that it uses ambiant energy instead of carrying a bulky fuel cargo. It is currently beyond our technological level but apparently experiments and prototypes are not far off, it could see the light of day in the near future.
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    u cant go faster than 0,2C. if u do the hydrogen in the universe will hit the space ship hard enough to rip its hull apart and tare it from the ship.
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  6. #5  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    u cant go faster than 0,2C. if u do the hydrogen in the universe will hit the space ship hard enough to rip its hull apart and tare it from the ship.
    Did this tidbit come from Star Trek's orginal and next generation series, or from Babylon 5? Or, is it just he who you believe can't exceed this speed?
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    its a scientific fact
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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    what if you made a super magnetic field in front of the ship that would deflect all of these hydrogen particles away from the ship?? That way you could end up with zero friction..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Anubis
    what if you made a super magnetic field in front of the ship that would deflect all of these hydrogen particles away from the ship?? That way you could end up with zero friction..
    I think that he should get back to how they do it on Star Trek's orginal and next generation series or on Babylon 5.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Anubis
    what if you made a super magnetic field in front of the ship that would deflect all of these hydrogen particles away from the ship?? That way you could end up with zero friction..
    I think that he should get back to how they do it on Star Trek's orginal and next generation series or on Babylon 5.
    Surly, space being curved , then once you have exceeded the speed of light, no more energy would be needed and you would continue to accelerate and follow the curve until you caught up with yourself!.
    Beam me up Scotty
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    hydrogen isnt magnetic or electrical charged so u cant deflect it like that
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Anubis
    what if you made a super magnetic field in front of the ship that would deflect all of these hydrogen particles away from the ship?? That way you could end up with zero friction..
    I think that he should get back to how they do it on Star Trek's orginal and next generation series or on Babylon 5.
    Surly, space being curved , then once you have exceeded the speed of light, no more energy would be needed and you would continue to accelerate and follow the curve until you caught up with yourself!.
    Beam me up Scotty
    Just as I thought. Star Trek.
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    Hydrogen would rip the ship apart if it were made of current alloys, but who says that has to be so?
    I demand that my name may or may not be vroomfondel!
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  14. #13  
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    well, we are talking with our current knowledge
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  15. #14  
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    Let's see:

    at .2 C a hydrogen would have a kinetic energy of 3.3*10^-13 J. So if there is one proton in every 10 cubic cm, that means that the ship would be absorbing about 1.9 watts per square meter. This does not seem like it would be much of a threat to the ship to me.
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    Does anyone have an idea which type of protection examined by recent projects would protect a crew bound for Mars from space and cosmic radiation?

    solid Materials, liquids?


    I had seen a report according to which mice near chernobyl had mutated, their DNA can self repair to some extent. I saw another report according to which some humans are more vulnerable to radiation (genetic difference in some people make them more likely to develop cancer and other illnesses if exposed to equivalent radiation as someone else).


    AUPSLPTP

    I've found this article about current radiation shielding research

    http://www.nasa.gov/vision/space/tra...shielding.html

    In a nutshell, they use layered Polyethylene fabric that is cooked to form bricks. The brick is lighter than aluminum, has high hydrogen content(which for some reason is said to be good vs radiation) and is a balistic armor(vs micro-meteorites)
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  17. #16  
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    Scifor Refugee, ure wrong by a factor of 10, its 3,0774 * 10^-12, or 18,63 eV
    the ships travel a distance of 0,2C for every second, and if every area is measured in cm a m² would be 10000 cm².
    times 0,2C to get the amount of volume it represents in cm³. gives 599584916000 cm³.1,84 watts/m²
    but thats not whats important. its the momentum
    one hydrogen have the momentum of 1,016*10^-19
    same calculations again for momentum, it gives 6,0927 * 10^-8 momentum/(s*m²)
    and since momentum/time = force it means
    6,0927 * 10^-8 N/m²
    now lets take this the time to get to alpha centauri wich is 4,2 LY away, it should take 21 years, in seconds it would be 66295445,469 seconds.
    6,0927 * 10^-8 momentum/(s*m²)*66295445,469 seconds=40 momentum in change per square meter. ships are quite large. but also lets not forget we are working on a atomic level so quantum things cant be ruled out have an effect
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  18. #17  
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    "The background radiation of the GCR permeates interplanetary space and includes 85% of protons, 14% of helium and about 1% from high-energy (E) and high-charge (Z) ions called HZE particles. Though the HZE particles are less abundant, they posses significantly higher ionizing power with a greater potential for radiation-induced damage and greater penetration power."

    It appears that there's a lot of protons and that the most damaging radiation particles are charged ions. I wonder if a protective magnetic field generated by the ship might be powerful enough to deflect some patricles? You'd probably need massive amounts of energy(submarine-like nuclear reactor?). I guess the cost in mass for the reactor/magnets/field generators compared to simple material based shielding probably would not make it worthwhile.
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  19. #18 THE ANSWER TO PROB ONE 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    Problem: Deep space - lots of vacuum, etc no atmosphere..
    According to Newton's third law, for every action there is an equal (in size) and opposite (in direction) reaction force. Forces are in a pair. Always. this is why rockets work in a micro gravity environment (space) Did this help? Or did you mean something else?

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  20. #19  
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    To clarify my post above ...

    ; { >

    Are you asking "what does the above have to do with my post?"

    You wrote….."They created a vehicle that was pushed forward by using fire extinguisher
    I and Newton would say….(that would be the action in the third law)

    You wrote….."which was left open and it let out a substance under pressure. And the vehicle moved."

    (that of course would be the reaction)

    I hope I did not over simplify this but I don't know how basic you want me to be....
    SPACE TIME IS THE BLOOD OF GOD
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Anubis
    what if you made a super magnetic field in front of the ship that would deflect all of these hydrogen particles away from the ship?? That way you could end up with zero friction..
    I think that he should get back to how they do it on Star Trek's orginal and next generation series or on Babylon 5.
    Surly, space being curved , then once you have exceeded the speed of light, no more energy would be needed and you would continue to accelerate and follow the curve until you caught up with yourself!.
    Beam me up Scotty
    Just as I thought. Star Trek.
    It is a fact man it has to be , it was on Star trek :wink: :wink:
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  22. #21  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Anubis
    what if you made a super magnetic field in front of the ship that would deflect all of these hydrogen particles away from the ship?? That way you could end up with zero friction..
    I think that he should get back to how they do it on Star Trek's orginal and next generation series or on Babylon 5.
    Surly, space being curved , then once you have exceeded the speed of light, no more energy would be needed and you would continue to accelerate and follow the curve until you caught up with yourself!.
    Beam me up Scotty
    Just as I thought. Star Trek.
    It is a fact man it has to be , it was on Star trek :wink: :wink:
    I quite agree. I know that it is true, because I myself saw the show where they were chasing themselves faster than the speed of light, and yet it was clear that they were using no more energy than if they were slower.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by Die Fledermaus
    Quote Originally Posted by Hermes
    Quote Originally Posted by Captain_Anubis
    what if you made a super magnetic field in front of the ship that would deflect all of these hydrogen particles away from the ship?? That way you could end up with zero friction..
    I think that he should get back to how they do it on Star Trek's orginal and next generation series or on Babylon 5.
    Surly, space being curved , then once you have exceeded the speed of light, no more energy would be needed and you would continue to accelerate and follow the curve until you caught up with yourself!.
    Beam me up Scotty
    Just as I thought. Star Trek.
    It is a fact man it has to be , it was on Star trek :wink: :wink:
    I quite agree. I know that it is true, because I myself saw the show where they were chasing themselves faster than the speed of light, and yet it was clear that they were using no more energy than if they were slower.

    Exactly
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  24. #23 a shortcut. 
    Forum Sophomore REV ROSWELL's Avatar
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    I assumed with the name warp drive that the engines highly curved the normal curve of (warped) space time therefore making a shortcut.

    multi warp, I assumed, was tp fold space time into an even more compact area with the worm holes to pass through. the more folds the shorter the distance and...well you know the rest.

    Was I grossly wrong in my assumptions about TNG tech?


    ps...Did the authors address how the crew would survive the horrific tidal effects of bringing that much energy in the form of gravity or implied mass to bend space time much less fold it?

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