Thread: the planet Jupiter

While giving science credit for unravelling the unknows of our universe, we should not assume that all the information we receive is absolutly correct, the case in point here is Jupiter.

This planet is described as a Gas giant, but i suppose that Chandra-levy dispelled that notion. If that planet was Gaseous then i ask the question how then did impact marks/craters occur when Chandra-levy smashed into it. As i understand gas its matter is shapeless and formless, to impact a gas is to create a vortex through the gas surface, Chandra-levy impact created a plum much like the impact from a meteor.

In addition to the plum it created it left tattle tale impact marks that can still be observed to this day. Gas as we know it does not behave in that way.

Either there is another form of matter where acretion catches Jupiter in a state of a
Gasporusness (a mixture of Gas and a solid) or another form of matter needs to be added to our standard Gas, Liquid, Solid equation.

First of all, I assume you are referring to Shoemaker-Levy 9, the comet that impacted Jupiter.

The scars that were created were not on the surface, they were in the atmosphere. The energy released during the impact roiled the atmosphere, and deposited element from the comet there as well, much as a meteor causes light and trails in our atmosphere.

The marks were torn apart and faded over time, there is nothing visible in the atmosphere now since it has dissapated. If you think so, please provide a refernce that shows them currently. Don't spend too much time, as there are none.

No exotic explanation is required, it's simple basic physics.

Wayne

(Edited for typo)

Originally Posted by MeteorWayne

First of all, I assume you are referring to Shoemaker-Levy 9, the comet that impacted Jupiter.

The scars that were created were not on the surface, they were in the atmosphere. The energy released during the impact roiled the atmopshere, and deposited element from the comet there as well, much as a meteor causes light and trails in our atmosphere.

The marks were torn apart and faded over time, there is nothing visible in the atmosphere now since it has dissapated. If you think so, please provide a refernce that shows them currently. Don't spend too much time, as there are none.

No exotic explanation is required, it's simple basic physics.

Wayne

Another promising young assumption killed by an obstreperous fact.

Originally Posted by curious1

another form of matter needs to be added to our standard Gas, Liquid, Solid equation.

There is another form of matter in everyday use. Supercritical fluids are not liquids or gases or solids. Steam boilers, CO2 sequestration, coffee decaffeination all us supercritical fluids.

Originally Posted by curious1

In addition to the plum it created it left tattle tale impact marks that can still be observed to this day. Gas as we know it does not behave in that way.

.

Couple of points. It's not all gas...only the top layer, below that liquid, and below that solids.

I don't think there's any remaining signs of the impact.

The plume isn't all too fantastic either--its been successfully modeled.
http://iopscience.iop.org/0004-637X/...2844.text.html

It is interesting, however, that the scars of the impact remained for up to one year. I imagine, with superior detection systems, we could have found evidence for them for some time after that.

Given the existence of the Red Spot for centuries, when it is after all just a bit of a storm, then the persistence of other turbulent features is not too surprising. Jupiter is not the Earth.

Originally Posted by MeteorWayne

First of all, I assume you are referring to Shoemaker-Levy 9, the comet that impacted Jupiter.

The scars that were created were not on the surface, they were in the atmosphere. The energy released during the impact roiled the atmosphere, and deposited element from the comet there as well, much as a meteor causes light and trails in our atmosphere.

The marks were torn apart and faded over time, there is nothing visible in the atmosphere now since it has dissapated. If you think so, please provide a refernce that shows them currently. Don't spend too much time, as there are none.

No exotic explanation is required, it's simple basic physics.

Wayne

(Edited for typo)

Shoemaker-levy is correct, but the deposit element you speak of stayed quite awhile, Gas as i know it in basic physics is forever transitory thats to say that it doesnt hold shape no matter the quantity for any period of time beyond its, as in this case initial impact.

and this is regardless of the composition of the secondary actor, so while your post offers a explanation it also confirms that the planet jupiter makeup is something more then just plain gas.

In considering the whole of space, earths basic physics does not explain everthing.

A recent orbital telescope took a picture of a gaseous clouds shaped as pillars another picture of that same body taken perhaps an hour later showed that same pillar however with different demensions.

Originally Posted by curious1

A recent orbital telescope took a picture of a gaseous clouds shaped as pillars another picture of that same body taken perhaps an hour later showed that same pillar however with different demensions.

Amd what body would that be? Link please, you can't just make stuff up and get away with it without being challenged.

Originally Posted by curious1

Shoemaker-levy is correct, but the deposit element you speak of stayed quite awhile, Gas as i know it in basic physics is forever transitory thats to say that it doesnt hold shape no matter the quantity for any period of time beyond its, as in this case initial impact.

and this is regardless of the composition of the secondary actor, so while your post offers a explanation it also confirms that the planet jupiter makeup is something more then just plain gas.

What is quite a while? A few weeks at most. Do you understand the scale of Jupiter? The depth of it's atmosphere? The prevailing winds at different latitudes?

Apparently not.

Originally Posted by MeteorWayne

What is quite a while? A few weeks at most.

as I noted in my earlier post "It is interesting, however, that the scars of the impact remained for up to one year." Therefore your statement is incorrect.

Yeah, sorry. Don't know what made my fingers type that. Doesn't change my point though...

Shoemaker - levy hit jupiter i beleive in 2003 the lastest pic of jupiter was tooken in 2009 and yes the impact site was still there, SEE; recent pics of juipter or Nasa

Originally Posted by curious1

Shoemaker - levy hit jupiter i beleive in 2003 the lastest pic of jupiter was tooken in 2009 and yes the impact site was still there, SEE; recent pics of juipter or Nasa

Please show a link that indicates that.

what would happen if you lit a match on the surface of jupiter? BOOM? its all flammable gas mostly..... tho is ther oxygen?

Originally Posted by curious1

Shoemaker - levy hit jupiter i beleive in 2003 the lastest pic of jupiter was tooken in 2009 and yes the impact site was still there, SEE; recent pics of juipter or Nasa

Indeed. Let's have the link for that picture please.

One suspects that it is this one here:
http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/20...upiter-impact/

The only problem with that is that is, it is the scar of a new collision, not SL9.

Originally Posted by somfooleishfool

what would happen if you lit a match on the surface of jupiter? BOOM? its all flammable gas mostly..... tho is ther oxygen?

Lightning on Jupiter is rather common. The planet hasn't gone "boom" in 4.5 billion years that we know of.

ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosph..._and_lightning

Chris

Originally Posted by somfooleishfool

what would happen if you lit a match on the surface of jupiter? BOOM? its all flammable gas mostly..... tho is ther oxygen?

Not very much oxygen, but yes quite a lot of hydrogen. The oxygen that exists is already reacted with stuff, not free in the atmosphere as with Earth.

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Surface pressure 20–200 kPa[12] (cloud layer)
Scale height 27 km
Composition
89.8±2.0% Hydrogen (H2)
10.2±2.0% Helium
~0.3% Methane
~0.026% Ammonia
~0.003% Hydrogen deuteride (HD)
0.0006% Ethane
0.0004% water
Ices:
Ammonia
water
ammonium hydrosulfide(NH4SH)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jupiter


When you look at the amazing amount of pressure created by Jupiter's gravity, it shouldn't be much of a surprise to see the gases exhibit behavior that is foreign to everyday experience on Earth, where such tremendous pressure is difficult to create without specialized equipment.

One thing that puzzles me is that, as I understand it, oxygen is the third most abundant element in the solar system (and, indeed, in the Milky Way).
(ref. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundan...n_the_Universe )

Are there any theories about why Jupiter's atmosphere seems to contain so little of it (even in chemically combined forms)?

The total solar abundances of carbon and nitrogen combined are less than that of oxygen, and yet methane and ammonia are orders of magnitude greater than water on Jupiter.

Chris