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Thread: These black holes are dangerous !!!

  1. #1 These black holes are dangerous !!! 
    Forum Freshman varunk's Avatar
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    Black holes are theoretical objects. A Black Hole is an object which has such a high gravitational pull that not even light can escape through it. Hence it appears black which makes it very hard to observe directly.

    Black holes may form as a result of the collapse of a very massive star at its death. In case of Black Holes, the initial star is so massive that nothing could stop its gravitational collapse. All the matter of the star's core is crushed to an infinitely small point, a singularity.

    A black hole is sheilded from the outside world by what is called an event horizon. This is a sphere around the black hole where light can no longer escape. Everything that crosses the event horizon is gone forever.

    Evidence of existence

    Despite the blackness of black holes there is evidence of their existence. If a black hole forms near a star it may get gobbled up by the black hole. And this can be easily observed by Astronomers. It is believed that many galaxies harbor supermassive black holes in their cores which have gobbled so much matter that they have the mass of billions of suns.

    Journey to Black Hole

    According to Albert Einstein theory of General Relativity, as an object approaches a black hole its time slows down. The closer it gets to the black hole the more it appears to be in slow motion as seen by Earth. Eventually it appears to be frozen in time as it cross the event horizon.

    ........ ........ ............ 8) ..........


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  3. #2  
    Forum Sophomore DEChengst's Avatar
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    Black holes aren't really black. Black holes radiate a tiny amount of energy. The bigger the black hole the less energy it radiates. Black holes with a mass smaller than that of the moon radiate so much energy they lose mass. Microscopic black holes would radiate so much energy in the last moments they will explode:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation


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  4. #3  
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    Smaller than the moon? I presume you mean with a less mass than the moon, correct?

    A black hole with the equal mass of the moon would be smaller in diameter than the moon, no? Because of it's density?

    I checked the mind-boggling article on wikipedia. I have a lot to learn when it comes to physics .

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  5. #4  
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomoUniversalis
    I presume you mean with a less mass than the moon, correct?
    That's what it says
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  6. #5  
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    I saw this awesome movie on the nasa site, with a star litirally being sucked into a black hole. I'll see if I can find it somewhere, should be in the archive of nasa science news.
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  7. #6  
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    So where would a black hole end, if it ended at all.
    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. -Robert Heinlein
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  8. #7  
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    It would end at it's core, a singularity of infinite mass.
    - sploit -
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sploit
    It would end at it's core, a singularity of infinite mass.
    I believe that would be infinite density, no? Infinite mass would mean all matter throughout space would be attracted at an infinite speed, according to the law of gravity.

    I sure don't hope black holes possess that capability .

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  10. #9  
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    So none of you think the sci-fi films are right by saying that a black hole would take you to another place in the universe, like a wormhole?
    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. -Robert Heinlein
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  11. #10  
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    It involves the mathemetical opposite of a black hole to be formed, through which a wormhole would form.

    Although I believe, with the knowledge I have now, that it is possible, I highly doubt any such phenomena exists. And, if it did existed, I doubt we could ever use it for travel or the likes.

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  12. #11  
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    So no Gamma Quadrant through the worm hole?
    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. -Robert Heinlein
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  13. #12  
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    I fear the Dominion and Cardassians will have to find alternate means. Perhaps they can close an alliance with the Borg for the use of Transwarp Hubs. Because everyone knows they exist and work :P.

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  14. #13  
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    LOL,

    Worm holes. If blacks holes do what they suspect they do, you would be going nowhere fast
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  15. #14 Black holes mystery !! 
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    ........Black holes form from large stars that collapse when they run out of fuel for their nuclear reactions. There are many forms of energy — heat, light, energy of motion, and the energy of gravity. Black holes have LOTS of gravitational energy!

    Some people have suggested that you could go into one black hole and come out another. But that is still fiction. As far as we know, if you go into a black hole, that's it.

    As far as I know, time is no different inside a black hole. But if your spacecraft fell into one, things would seem very strange. As you fell faster and faster, your speed would approach the speed of light. It would seem to you that you are falling forever. So perhaps it would seem that time had stopped. But falling into a black hole would be pretty painful — the gravity would pull a spacecraft apart.........

    http://www.doortouniverse.4t.com
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    Gravitational energy? I am unsure of what you mean by this.

    Now, there are hypotheses that inside a black hole, universal rules (conservation of matter and energy) for example, disappear.

    Still, I ain't touching those kinds of subjects. I have found that every 10 years some hotshot scientist changes his mind, and suddenly black holes aren't black holes, but merely manifestations of universal bathfoam, following from the paddling from a gigantic turtle in which our universe rests.

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  17. #16  
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    I always like to think of black holes as a universal leek of energy in that matter in this universe is sucked into a black hole ripped apart into pure energy and then spat out of a white hole in another univese. see as I understand it energy can not be destroyed only changed from one from to another so mabey are universe is just slowy leeking in to another.
    (From the flames of one Phoenix another rises)
    But I could be wrong.
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  18. #17  
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    conservation of energy might still apply seeing as the gravitational force might just convert the matter back into energy, like a fuel.

    otherwise we're running out of matter.
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  19. #18  
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    I read this one before:
    if the core of the star is more massive then 3solar masses,it will become a blackhole instead of a planetary nebula.so 1 solar masses=??


    talking bout matter,what is dark matter????
    Prof. Stephen Hawkings stated that spaces in the universe is mainly filled with these matters but it cant be seen
    living like hell down here!!!!!
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by DEChengst
    Black holes aren't really black. Black holes radiate a tiny amount of energy. The bigger the black hole the less energy it radiates. Black holes with a mass smaller than that of the moon radiate so much energy they lose mass. Microscopic black holes would radiate so much energy in the last moments they will explode:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hawking_radiation
    Yes but I have calculated the Hawking radiation of the typical isolated black hole (eg MACHO 98blg6) and it is negligible. You would not notice it. You would even be hard pressed to measure it, it is so tiny. So you are wrong they are black, unless they are close enough to a star to draw off gasses from it. In such a situation up to 40% of the matter torn apart as it is sucked into the black hole is converted to radiated energy which escapes. These black holes shine like a star. They are usually not very bright because they are quite small. By small I am talking about the Schwarzschild radius because any light which escapes must come from outside this radius.

    Nevertheless, even an isolated black hole is visible if you are close enough. There is a black circle which goes out to 1.5 times the Schwarzschild radius called the photon sphere. This is the distance from the black hole where light can orbit the black hole. Even though light can escape the photon sphere, it can only do so if it originates there. Any light which goes into the photon sphere does not come out again unless it hits a mirror or something. Outside the black circle you will see a repeated image of the stars of the sky in a series of concentric circles called the Einstein rings. This comes from the light of these stars going all the way around the black hole a number of times. The largest and outermost Einstein ring makes the black hole quite visible, and if you are close to a star you will see a bright second image of that star in this outermost Einstein ring.

    Are black holes dangerous? Well if you are close enough to see the photon sphere and Einstein ring, you are seriously in trouble. But otherwise they are not really dangerous. I wouldn't go absolutely dead center directly towards one if I were you, but anything less than that makes it very very difficult to get devoured by a black hole. For black holes in very close proximity to a star the gasses drawn off go into an accretion disk where they will circle the black hole forever unless they bump into something in a way that sends it toward the black hole, while what it bumped into gets pushed farther away from the black hole. Does all this sound scary or dangerous? Well if it does then you are in trouble. Did you know that you actually live in a black hole accretion disk? What do you think the Milky Way Galaxy is?


    Everything I have said and described is simulated in my physics of spaceflight simulator, relspace.
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    i know we have a big big black hole in cener of galaxy, we are all orbiting it. the sun is, we follow the sun around the black hole really far...
    oh yes..

    i got a possible theory to connect known stuff
    but i have a hunch that it has a 95% chance of being absoulte rubbish
    its about light as photons and waves and black holes and its evaporation
    and explosion
    if light is seen as particles and as waves, why not connect the two?
    when the waves of electricity and magnetism come together, they could be the photon particle we see then they could convert back and here again
    real fast, in the process, they could lose energy or remain the same
    about black holes, since light has short wavelength, and if magnetsim and electric waves can escape gravity of black hole, its possible that things with long wavelegth can escape it, so hawking radiation porbably has long wavelength. it converts to waves and goes out then it goes in(pull by gravity) it gets out bit by bit, so it comes out ... then all the other radiation stays inside black hole. since e=mc^2 the hawking radiation is particle black hole lost. the others stay in and convert back 2 matter i think. but some may not turn back 2 matter. maybe heat cos it also has long wavelength, it may turn to waves and go out abit, turn to particle and go in abit. so its about the same.
    they may circle around the black hole inside the event horizon,so it kinda stores energy. if it dosent suck anymore, the energy can pile up and it can lose density since volume is zero. cycle repeats again and again. until
    heat and gravity have an ultimate showdown.heat pull atom apart gravity pull back in,lose more mass . heat out of control and black hole stuff becomes small neutron star and we have the heaviest element there.
    but it dosent survive for long, heat and other energy is winning. then it turns into the universe's first natural fission bomb (because if u know about nuclear weapons, u would know about critical mass and this neutron star with event horizon has super super critical mass). really big 1 too.. haha
    it booms so e=mc^2 we got lots of mass in the dying black hole. probably it will reundergo or probably the gravity will hold it together and the element can undergo fission several times. the heat in the star prevents it from comperssing the lighter matter back into heavier matter cos it could be blown away before reaching the center or it can go fusion and add to the energy stockpile. until we have too much energy for gravity to handle. then lots of matter become energy, and the greater the gravity the greater the energy, cos it needs more energy to blow it away.another way to put it is like we have a can of coke we have a weak one and a strong 1...
    if we shake it the energy for weak can of coke is released and dont cos so much damage, strong can of coke will stay very long until gas too much and the energy released will be strong.
    then the force of the blast is so strong that the rest of matter gets blown into obvilion and becomes subatomic particles such as neutrons n stuff and lots of bits smaller. maybe at near the speed of light so it can become micro black holes we see in particle accelerator.and it makes lots of energy well...
    so if the big bang theory were true (i doubt so)
    the it could be a giant black hole out of control that had nothing to suck
    so it went like this and boom really big boom haha the energy prob had nowhere 2 go and maybe condensed into matter so we got hydrogenzzz
    oh yeah just noticed while browsing...
    mike NS has some related stuff to mine maybe he can fill the holes in this theory
    but then again....
    after reading some of his posts
    i think not

    out of topic- in my world of imagination,u could defend urself form a black hole. just get a huge heap of anit-matter and force it in, unless u are the anitmatter and go on a kamikaze mission haha lol

    but this is what i think
    its either my reality or it is true
    imagination can carry u really far huh?
    no time for lots of things
    must save time
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  22. #21  
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    i think black hole give off hawkins radiation and end at the core yes but itll create sumthing dense like white drawlf or sumthing really really super dense lol :P
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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by iLOVEscience
    i think black hole give off hawkins radiation and end at the core yes but itll create sumthing dense like white drawlf or sumthing really really super dense lol :P
    silly idea. once blackhole allways blackhole. THe only problem is once it reaches plancklenght, it is thought that it will explode then
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  24. #23  
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    In year 2000 scientist discovered a wandering black hole in our own galaxy. So the black hole is actually moving, and though unlikely it could see to the end of our planet. If you where to "enter" a black hole the difference in gravitational force from your head to your feat would stretch you like a rubber band, then you would be ripped apart and then atom by atom. I have also herd talk of scientist soon being able to produce a black hole in particle accelerators which would last only a few seconds.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    Quote Originally Posted by iLOVEscience
    i think black hole give off hawkins radiation and end at the core yes but itll create sumthing dense like white drawlf or sumthing really really super dense lol :P
    silly idea. once blackhole allways blackhole. THe only problem is once it reaches plancklenght, it is thought that it will explode then
    Then????, could this be how the UV started, or am I being naive :wink:
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    Is there any reason why one black hole cannot swallow another black hole
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  27. #26  
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    I'm not quite sure about this "inifinite mass" which is bandied about like the new sliced bread. Infinity is a concept used to oil the passage of some maths problems e.g. pi is [thought] to be an infinite series of digits. Simply put, if anything were infinite it would exist everywhere. Infinite mass (mass without end) is therefore [surely] not possible.
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  28. #27  
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    are you talking about BH having infinite mass? if they did they would curve the entire spacetime everywhere in the universe infinite. But the blackhole have infinite density

    Is there any reason why one black hole cannot swallow another black hole
    npoe, they fuse toghater to form a even bigger blackhole
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  29. #28  
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    a matter that has me curious...

    when a black hole forms from a stella collapse, does it keep orbiting the galaxy in the same way the star would have or will it move in some other way?
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  30. #29  
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    if we assume that nothing is throws out in any specefic direction then no. it will continue like nothing happened
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  31. #30  
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    cool, that makes them even less dangerous then.
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  32. #31  
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    but when they are formed there is a supernova and it might throw matter out uneven and by that propel it in one direction
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  33. #32  
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    Quote Originally Posted by sploit
    It would end at it's core, a singularity of infinite mass.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    But the blackhole have infinite density

    I dispute the notion of infinite density - I can easily grasp the notion of nuetron stars, that is one huge nucleii - I can even grasp that within a nucleus there are quarks - so I can see there is a possibility for density to be more dense than just solid neutrons (ie the nuetrons collapse) - but infinite density? ie no end of mass packed into no space at all? and if it DID occupy any space it would not have infinite density. And if it occupied NO space then it would not exist (in our universe).

    I'll settle for incredible,astronomical,unimaginable et al but infinite?
    I don't think so....
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  34. #33  
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    we have X kg in a volume of 0 m²
    density = X/0
    since anything divided with 0 equals infinite therefor density is infinite
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  35. #34  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    we have X kg in a volume of 0 m²
    density = X/0
    since anything divided with 0 equals infinite therefor density is infinite
    Now don't be silly, you cannot put infinity into ANY sum/equation as it is NOT a quantity it is a concept.

    And you cannot divide anything by zero. I am sure you do not me to show you the proof of that one.
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  36. #35  
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    i know that you cant divide X/0 thats why its considered to be infinite.
    if you have 1 and divivde it with x
    as x is approxing infinite the formula approches 0
    therefor its logical that when it reaches infinite it equals 0
    its logical to say that 1/0 then equals infinite
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    i know that you cant divide X/0 thats why its considered to be infinite.
    if you have 1 and divivde it with x
    as x is approxing infinite the formula approches 0
    therefor its logical that when it reaches infinite it equals 0
    its logical to say that 1/0 then equals infinite

    Your head really is screwed up on that one, At least I can point to age as to why I'm senile! 8)
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  38. #37  
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    let me show this in terms my mathematic teacher would write it
    lim(a -> 0) 1/a = infinite
    or
    1/a goes to infinite as a goes to 0

    and

    lim(a -> infinite) 1/a = 0
    or
    1/a goes to 0 as a goes to infinite

    this is mathematical correct
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  39. #38  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    let me show this in terms my mathematic teacher would write it
    lim(a -> 0) 1/a = infinite
    or
    1/a goes to infinite as a goes to 0

    and

    lim(a -> infinite) 1/a = 0
    or
    1/a goes to 0 as a goes to infinite

    this is mathematical correct
    Only your last line is correct ie they 'tend towards'

    so as 'a' approahes zero 1/a =infinite is INCORRECT
    it only tends towards!
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  40. #39  
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    when i set lim before i have the right to set it equals
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  41. #40  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    when i set lim before i have the right to set it equals
    you CANNOT put a numeric value to infinity

    1/0 DOES NOT = infinity it equals 1/0

    infinity i NOT a quantity
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  42. #41  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    let me show this in terms my mathematic teacher would write it
    lim(a -> 0) 1/a = infinite
    or
    1/a goes to infinite as a goes to 0
    Actually that is not correct, as lim(a -> 0) 1/a does not exist (even in the extended reals) as it is arbitrary large and small in any neighbourhood of zero.

    GR breaks down close to the perceived mathematical singularity so what exactly is there is anyones guess - we need a complete quantum gravity theory to answer that one.
    As is often the case with technical subjects we are presented with an unfortunate choice: an explanation that is accurate but incomprehensible, or comprehensible but wrong.
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  43. #42  
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    river_rat your damn right

    but we went to the mathematical part

    billco, infinite is a quantity greater than any quantity. whats wrong with that? infinities isnt wrong
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_hole#Singularity
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  44. #43  
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    I'm really confused now.

    Black holes grow by swallowing mass, but how can a black hole grow if the singularity is infinitely dense?

    If you combine two infinitely dense singularities aren't you left with a a 'single' singularity which itself is infinitely dense. It isn't more dense than the two parent singularities.

    In effect the singularity is identical to the two singularites which combined to form it. So why is the black hole 'bigger'?
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    a blackhole is classefied as the radius around the singularity that is within and the eventhorizon. as mass increase the eventhorizon grow larger and thereby the blackhole
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  46. #45  
    Cooking Something Good MacGyver1968's Avatar
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    I don't understand how 1/0 = infinity. Seems to me, if you divide anything into zero parts, it would be the opposite of infinity..nothingness. Wouldn't that violate the conservation of matter? But hey...I'm no mathematician...all this fancy ciphering makes me feel like Jethro Bodine from the "Beverly Hillbillies"...."naught times naught equals naught"



    On a different subject, I just found two extensions for the Firefox browser that are very useful to me on this forum, One is called "Rite of Tongue" which allows you to right click a word to check it's spelling. The other is called "Answers" which allows you to "ALT-click" any word for a pop-up quick info box for terms your not familiar with. Just a little FYI.
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  47. #46  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    I don't understand how 1/0 = infinity. Seems to me, if you divide anything into zero parts, it would be the opposite of infinity..nothingness. Wouldn't that violate the conservation of matter?
    no, since its only density that becomes infinite and not matter
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  48. #47  
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    Zelos,

    I think you should restrict your posts to the science fiction section.
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  49. #48  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    okey, if you retire and wait to die
    we both know you wont do that
    i say what i have read in different sources and they all say infinite density
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  50. #49  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    okey, if you retire and wait to die
    we both know you wont do that
    i say what i have read in different sources and they all say infinite density
    So zelos has met his match? he/she/it conquers planets but cannot stub out the immortal billco - he wishes death upon me - shame on you attacking a poor defenseless pensioner.

    As to what you have read, since I do not subscribe to sci-fi comics I am unable to comment on their validity.
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  51. #50  
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    Refer to Hawkings essay "Black holes and baby universes"
    He talks about wormholes and baby universes being created out of black holes. 8)
    No man was ever wise by chance.
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  52. #51  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    So zelos has met his match? he/she/it conquers planets but cannot stub out the immortal billco - he wishes death upon me - shame on you attacking a poor defenseless pensioner.
    i didnt ment you should die just meaning it as "i wont do it"

    As to what you have read, since I do not subscribe to sci-fi comics I am unable to comment on their validity.
    i dont take things from scifi books. I might be young but i am not like that.
    Even teachers in astronomy have said infinite density
    That comes from physics books.
    Young doesnt equal stupid.
    I have possed a great amount of knowledge relative to my age for aslong as i have lived.
    I have assimilated more knowledge in my 18 years of living than many people do throu out a entire lifetime
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  53. #52  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    So zelos has met his match? he/she/it conquers planets but cannot stub out the immortal billco - he wishes death upon me - shame on you attacking a poor defenseless pensioner.
    i didnt ment you should die just meaning it as "i wont do it"

    As to what you have read, since I do not subscribe to sci-fi comics I am unable to comment on their validity.
    i dont take things from scifi books. I might be young but i am not like that.
    Even teachers in astronomy have said infinite density
    That comes from physics books.
    Young doesnt equal stupid.
    I have possed a great amount of knowledge relative to my age for aslong as i have lived.
    I have assimilated more knowledge in my 18 years of living than many people do throu out a entire lifetime
    You'd be dangerous if you could read and write.

    I resent you implying that at any time I have said young = stupid!
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  54. #53  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    You'd be dangerous if you could read and write.
    i can read and write. my grammar isnt good thou. But this is a good exemple of you bieng a bit to old. Your jabbing about my grammar all the time since its one of the few things you will be able to hold on to even when your uber-senile
    and once again i say that if you cant handle missusage of grammar on the net dont be on it. this is the net and people are less precis with grammar since, well most dont care. and it wont change to satesfy you. so deal with it or leave and let the young and adapteble rule it as they are supposed to
    in real life i am much more precis with my grammar

    JUst where do you think I said young = stupid?
    your entire attitude says that
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  55. #54  
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    As I have said before, If you can't take insults then stop throwing them. If you think for one damn moment that being almost 4 times older than you means I have to sit back and endure all your crap you are mistaken, - You telling me I am older and should know better is hiding behind your youth, If you wish to be considered an adult you should start acting like one. Suggesting to anyone that you have learnt more in 18 years than most learn in a liftime whilst at the same time accusing me of 'being superior' [which is a complete mis-quote of what I said] is arrogance in the extreme,

    Now if you wish to continue this again I ask you to PM and not waste board time/space!
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    I've been trying to read up more on black holes but it seriously fries my brain just trying to think about them.

    I understand in principle that the density of a black hole is so great that the escape velocity excedes the speed of light BUT:

    1) Why should light be affected by gravity? I thought that photons were massless and that gravity was an attractive force between objects with mass. Are these affects of gravity on light to do with the wave/particle duality of photons? Or is it to do with the distortion of space/time?

    2) Isn't gravity theoretically mediated by massless particles (gravitons)? If so why isn't a graviton affected by the gravity of a black hole in the same way that a massless photon is? How can information (the mass of the singularity) cross the event horizon?

    If anyone smart can explain (or attempt to explain!) these to me I would be very grateful!
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  57. #56  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    1) Why should light be affected by gravity? I thought that photons were massless and that gravity was an attractive force between objects with mass. Are these affects of gravity on light to do with the wave/particle duality of photons? Or is it to do with the distortion of space/time
    this is a newtonian view. you need einsteinal. It says that gravity isnt a force like newton thought but curvation in spacetime. and since light follow a straight path in the spacetime it will bend of if its bent.

    2) Isn't gravity theoretically mediated by massless particles (gravitons)? If so why isn't a graviton affected by the gravity of a black hole in the same way that a massless photon is? How can information (the mass of the singularity) cross the event horizon?
    this is a problem they are working on. we need quantum gravity for that wich we dont have. But hawking radiation is escaping blackhooles wich makes them lose mass all the time. little but significan in 10^100 years
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  58. #57  
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    omg thats long
    anyway 10^100 has an unoffical name
    googol
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Googol
    cool huh
    no time for lots of things
    must save time
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  59. #58  
    Forum Isotope Zelos's Avatar
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    yeah its a long time. the larger the hole the less it radiates
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  60. #59  
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    well a black hole can have an opposite. quasars, they just throw energy at an alarming rate as a black hole sucks energy in. but thats neither here nor there.

    i was thinking. if the star that started the black hole was spinning. and it collapses then like a figure skater it would start spinning faster and faster. now if the singularity is (close to) infinatly dense but occupies no volume then wouldnt it be spinning at the speed of light.

    then i thought some more and kept reading. wouldnt the BH start to flatten out like a pancake due to the speed its spinnign. could it become a donught. with nothing in the centre. all its "mass" in a donut ring astronomically thin. iono food for thought.
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    Yes a spinning black hole is actually thought to have a ring singularity rather than a spherical one. Could I make it clear to others that it is obvious that black holes have infinite density. density = m/v therefore if there is no volume then whatever value of m, other than 0, will give infinite density. The mass is not infinite, this is a misconception, however the density is made from the componenets m and v and it is not the m which is the important factor, it is the v, which in a black hole's case is 0.

    To clear up other problems raised earlier, imagine i fall into a black hole and reach the singularity. I may never reach the singularity because in the time of me doing this the entire life of the universe has passed. Time has been slowed down so much inside the black hole, that any inertial observer outside the black hole would never see me fall in, but see me hover above the mouth for an EFFECTIVELY infinite amount of time. If I ever reach the singularity, time would end for me. This is because although the black hole does not have infinite mass, its infinite density implies it is thought of as an infitessimely small point particle. Therefore if I push right up against it I will be expieriencing the gravitonal effects of an entire star at a distance 0. At such a distance the force of gravity I feel will be infinite, stopping time. And by the way quasi-stellar objects or quasars ar not the opposite of black holes, (the theoretical white hole is the opposite of a black hole). Quasars are massive amounts of spiraling gas and energy which form the accretion disc of a black hole.
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