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Thread: Cosmic Expension

  1. #1 Cosmic Expension 
    Forum Freshman yapkf's Avatar
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    As we know that travelling slow down time and greater the mass, slower the object. I've got a few open questions for all Scientists around the world to discuss with. Hopefully with your support, together we build a better world.

    1) Is Photon (Light) travelling faster, or the expension of the Universe faster?

    2) Imagine if I hold a 30CM x 30CM x 30CM, vacuum black square box with nothing inside. No atoms, no light, no electronic waves and completely empty. Does time exist inside the box?


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  3. #2  
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    these two questions belong in two different sections: the first in the trash bin and the second in philosophy.

    we have observed that besides tacheons(which are as of now, still theoretical) nothing can travel as fast as a photon, never mind faster. if something is traveling at 99.9999999% the speed of light and you add energy, it won't speed up, it will just gain mass. we prove this every time we use a particle collider.

    also, any research into einstein's work will tell you that time is part of a four dimensional fabric known as space-time. when you make your box you specify three dimensions, legth, width, and height. but you don't specify its position in the fourth dimension. if anything exists for more than an instant(takes up no actual time value) then it exists on space-time as a three dimensional object not having a value in time. but if you make your box exist for as little as a picosecond it has a time value and time exists in your box.


    physics: accurate, objective, boring
    chemistry: accurate if physics is accurate, slightly subjective, you can blow stuff up
    biology: accurate if chemistry is accurate, somewhat subjective, fascinating
    religion: accurate if people are always right, highly subjective, bewildering
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    Administrator KALSTER's Avatar
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    Time is a measure of relative movement. If anything exists relative to the inside of your box, time exists. For that matter if more than one point exists within your box, time exists as well. Basically time exists for anything that you can measure the relative movement of something else to it. The inside of black holes are different, because the inside of a black hole is causally isolated from the rest of the universe. Time exists for a anything within the escape velocity cone within the event horizon and from the centre of mass, but there is no time relative between an object inside the black hole and anything outside it.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

    "Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
    "All people know the same truth. Our lives consist of how we chose to distort it." - Harry Block
    "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle
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    Forum Freshman yapkf's Avatar
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    Thank you for the thorough explanation. But i still think travelling faster than time is possible. Let's give a simple example. We all know that planet spins. Let's apply the theory of diameter and torque. If you build a very very long tube attached to any planet that spins. The greater the diameter, the faster you go. Are u saying that you will drag the planet to a speed within speed of light? It's a theory, yet possible. If we start our jorney from Earth and pivot at a planet-X 50k light years a way, one round planet-X spin and stop at the same spot, we might end up years later.... Please feed back... Thanks.
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  6. #5  
    Moderator Moderator Dishmaster's Avatar
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    Saying that something travels faster than time doesn't make any sense, because time has no speed.

    Your thought experiment is not new, but it does not change the situation. Nothing that has a mass can travel as fast or faster than with the speed of light. This long rod cannot exist, because it will break. Velocities do not add up linearly, so the longer the rod, the slower rotates the other end than predicted by classical mechanics. Therefore, it will lag behind the rest of the rod. If the rod would be ideal and infinitely rigid, any rotating body that holds it would loose rotational energy and momentum. Note that the (relativistic) kinetic energy can rise while the velocity approaches the speed of light asymptotically without actually reaching it.

    I suggest, you first read up a few basics of special relativity (e.g. in the Physics section of this forum) before you continue to make uneducated speculations.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Freshman yapkf's Avatar
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    Thank you Dishmaster for the patient feedback. My apologize if you think that my suggest is uneducated. I was mentioning that it was an "example" by using a "Rod". My actual model is using a kind of "Energy Bond" rather than a primitive mechanical stuffs that is fragile with resistance and friction.

    Secondly, it was an open discussion and not a speculation. I will be glad if you could redirect my to a more suitable topic folder if I'm posting wrongly.
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    I think yapkf has made some basic typos and grammar mistakes because english isnt his first language.

    That thought experiment comes around a lot, but it falls flat every time.

    Philosophy often trues to say that time doesnt exist without conciousness. Yet another misunderstanding of the Universe. We are not what makes the Universe, we don't have a special place within it, there is no life force or voodoo magic which allows us to have a spirit. We are a fortunate by-product of the Universe, nothing more.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by saul
    we have observed that besides tacheons(which are as of now, still theoretical) nothing can travel as fast as a photon, never mind faster. if something is traveling at 99.9999999% the speed of light and you add energy, it won't speed up, it will just gain mass. we prove this every time we use a particle collider.`
    The fastest things we have detected so far are protons from space with an energy of 3x10^20 eV which over a distance of a light year would arrive just 47 nanometers behind a photon. By comparison, the LHC is a pea shooter. Even greater energies could exist from hypernovae which could mean even faster particles.

    It has been postulated that photons could have a mass (which would solve a number of problems, but it would be below 10^-35 kg), which if true would mean that gravity is faster than light and that matter could travel faster than light (even if just a tiny fraction of 1%) if sufficiently energetic.
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    yapkf. One way of learning is by asking questions. One way of seeing if an idea could work is by posting it on a science forum.

    There are textbook-for-brains posters on every science forum who will not tolerate new ideas but they should be ignored.

    1. A photon is the fastest thing we know of at present. However if you say that over a set area, the universe expands by 20 miles per second and allow for ten thousand such lengths over a few tens of billions of light years, that gives you an overall expansion of 200,000 mps, so faster than light.

    2. Time is change of any kind. If you could have literally nothing, you would have no change and so no time. As saul said though, this "nothing" existing for a period of time is really time in a way since it is change of what was before and what will be afterwards.

    Maybe what you need is a universe where nothing has ever existed or will exist.
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