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  1. #1 black hole theory 
    CP
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    Lets discuss the theory of the black hole being just a galactic Tornado...


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    Why should we do that?


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  4. #3 Re: black hole theory 
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP
    Lets discuss the theory of the black hole being just a galactic Tornado...
    What theory is that? On what physical assumptions is it based? What is a galactic tornado?
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    I think he simply wants to try and imagine black holes as tornados i.e spinning, turbulent systems. However there is no real comparison. Tornados are Earth weather systems with strong winds whereas black holes are gravitational phenomena.
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  6. #5  
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    i guess you havent heard the theory of an imploding star commencing a galactic tornado... lol... also known as a black hole.
    thanks for reply and chat ...
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  7. #6  
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    as it explodes it pushes matter out which consequently gets recompressed rapidly commencing a vacuum phemenon, similar to a funneling effect or a balloon.
    thus the theory of the greatest living genius...
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  8. #7  
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    That didn't make a lick of sense.
    Co-producer of Red Oasis
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kukhri
    That didn't make a lick of sense.
    I agree. A so called Black Hole is defined as an object that produces so much gravitational force that even light cannot escape. How such an object forms is irrelevant. Stellar Black Holes may be the result of a supernova, but galactic Black Holes may have formed in a different way. The popularised image of a funnel or a sink is misleading. A Black Hole does not "suck", bodies fall on it because of gravity and tidal effects.
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  10. #9  
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    when you're standing near a 300mph tornado where is the gravitational pull?
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP
    when you're standing near a 300mph tornado where is the gravitational pull?
    The same place it was when the tornado was not there - down, beneath your feet.

    True, there is some gravitational attraction from the mass of air in the tornado, but since this is at a considerably lowerer pressure than normal the gravitational attraction from it is actually less.

    So what was your point?
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  12. #11  
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    if it would just attract matter into the centre it would keep getting larger but it doesnt and it doesnt attract from every direction it has a tail where the energy is released.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP
    if it would just attract matter into the centre it would keep getting larger but it doesnt and it doesnt attract from every direction it has a tail where the energy is released.
    True as proposed a highly energetic compound is created that escapes the black holes gravity, most likely because of the structure.

    Look; imagine a bathtub, that's what most guys say. then imagine a very frictionfree substance, a very round substance moleculary. It allways go in last.

    I now imagine a similar material, godium, that has no gravitational pull, since it is completely round in all dimensions. So naturally this substance goes right through the black hole and flees from it.

    That is the black holes drain.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP
    if it would just attract matter into the centre it would keep getting larger but it doesnt and it doesnt attract from every direction it has a tail where the energy is released.
    Says who? Where did you get that from?

    1. BHs do get larger, i.e. the Schwarzschild radius increases.
    2. Gravitation pulls in every direction, and so does a BH. But that does not mean that matter must fall into it from all directions. It cannot fall directly into the BH, because it has to get rid of momentum. Therefore, an accretion disk is formed from which the material slowly spirals into the BH. That is the same as for the formation of stars. There is a sun in the centre of our solar system, and still the planets are well aligned in a disk and not in randomly inclined orbits.
    3. Are the "tails" you are referring to the ejected jets? These are not released from the BH but from the surrounding disk. Since the disk is planar, the direction of the jet is also collimated in a certain direct, usually perpendicularly to the plane of the disk.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP
    when you're standing near a 300mph tornado where is the gravitational pull?
    This is a completely different phenomenon. Tornados emerge from pressure gradients in the atmosphere. There is no such atmosphere in space. And the BHs do not show up at places where you find pressure gradients. They are always the result of a gravitational well (collapsing stars, dense galactic nuclei).
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  16. #15 Black Holes 
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    Everything you find in the galaxy, you can find right here on earth. Earth is from this Galaxy. Black Holes are simply Tornadoes or Hurricanes. Just on a larger scale of course!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    Quote Originally Posted by CP
    when you're standing near a 300mph tornado where is the gravitational pull?
    This is a completely different phenomenon. Tornados emerge from pressure gradients in the atmosphere. There is no such atmosphere in space. And the BHs do not show up at places where you find pressure gradients. They are always the result of a gravitational well (collapsing stars, dense galactic nuclei).
    So, you are saying that tornadoes can only be found on earth? Not in the Galaxy? Tornadoes are not affected by Gravity? OK...
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    Why are you determined to compare black holes to tornados? You might just as well compare them to bathroom sinks or vacuum cleaners.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliff claven
    So, you are saying that tornadoes can only be found on earth? Not in the Galaxy? Tornadoes are not affected by Gravity? OK...
    He said tornados can only be found where there is an atmosphere, and therefore under completely different conditions from blackholes.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by cliff claven
    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    Quote Originally Posted by CP
    when you're standing near a 300mph tornado where is the gravitational pull?
    This is a completely different phenomenon. Tornados emerge from pressure gradients in the atmosphere. There is no such atmosphere in space. And the BHs do not show up at places where you find pressure gradients. They are always the result of a gravitational well (collapsing stars, dense galactic nuclei).
    So, you are saying that tornadoes can only be found on earth? Not in the Galaxy? Tornadoes are not affected by Gravity? OK...
    A tornado is a convergence zone of gas in a strong pressure gradient. Similar processes might exist at places other than the Earth. For instance, I could imagine this to happen in the sheets between protostellar jets and the ambient dense medium.



    But it is clear beyond doubt that this is not the case in Black Holes. The gravitational lensing observed around these objects speaks for itself. By the way, many Black Holes are quiescent, i.e. they do not accrete much material, like the one in the centre of the Milky Way. Those can only be identified through their gravitational effects.

    But also tornadoes are affected by gravity of course. The fact that they are always oriented perpendicularly to the surface of the Earth indicates this. The reason for this is probably convection that can only exist in the presence of gravitation. But I am not an atmosphere physicist or meteorologist.
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  21. #20  
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    A black hole is like an tornado, The black hole sucks every thing up in it's way, Becuse the strong gravitation, A Tornado can be very strong (Like in America) the tornado ''sucks'' every thing up in it's way but realease every thing when it dies, But a black hole i don't know if it can suck up it's-self.
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    A tornado doesn't suck. It pushes.
    The difference in pressure, higher behind you and less in front, moves you foreward. Or do you think airplane wings are attracted/pulled to the sky???

    A black hole is a space/time phenomena where you are constrained to follow the space/time curvature into the black hole, just like a marble rolling into a funnel. You can give the marble an orbital motion and it will delay its infall, and if the orbital speed is great enough, even rise up and escape the funnel. But a black hole, at the event horizon is equivalent to a vertical funnel, ie. no matter the orbital speed, there is no escape !!!
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    oh my goodness.... black holes like tornadoes..... i thought my theories were out there.... how can you possibly say that? think about it very carefully. a tornado doesn't suck everything up; sure it pulls things up off the ground as in the case of just like a hurricane.... does a tornado take light with it as well? does it suck up all matter in its path? uhhh nooo... the earth is still here right? and if i remember correctly cuz i don't want to look it up a, Tornado doesn't pull you from all directions right?
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    Quote Originally Posted by orion6676
    oh my goodness.... black holes like tornadoes..... i thought my theories were out there.... how can you possibly say that? think about it very carefully. a tornado doesn't suck everything up; sure it pulls things up off the ground as in the case of just like a hurricane.... does a tornado take light with it as well? does it suck up all matter in its path? uhhh nooo... the earth is still here right? and if i remember correctly cuz i don't want to look it up a, Tornado doesn't pull you from all directions right?
    A white hole can be like a tornado though. a photon/quark-tornado.
    I've heard that a black hole can spin, and I believe that if it spin fast enough that time will go backwards in it and it'll release matter.
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    Quote Originally Posted by LeavingQuietly
    Quote Originally Posted by orion6676
    oh my goodness.... black holes like tornadoes..... i thought my theories were out there.... how can you possibly say that? think about it very carefully. a tornado doesn't suck everything up; sure it pulls things up off the ground as in the case of just like a hurricane.... does a tornado take light with it as well? does it suck up all matter in its path? uhhh nooo... the earth is still here right? and if i remember correctly cuz i don't want to look it up a, Tornado doesn't pull you from all directions right?
    A white hole can be like a tornado though. a photon/quark-tornado.
    I've heard that a black hole can spin, and I believe that if it spin fast enough that time will go backwards in it and it'll release matter.
    well with stephen hawking he says that black holes spit out "hawking radiation" the only thing capable of escaping it, and if you read my post about my black hole; thats my theoretical guess as to why it does that including a bit about the 4th dimensional matter "time".
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    Hawking radiation has to do with the quantum mechanical effect of pair creation near the event horizon of a black hole. Nothing actually comes out of the event horizon but it seems that way because of conservation laws. This is the method by which small black holes evaporate, read up on it.

    What you call 'white holes' are actually rapidly spinning black holes. As mass falls into them and is rapidly accelerated to near ligtt speed,it emits radiation such as gamma and X-rays from the two poles. If we happen to be inline with either pole we see a very bright quasi-stellar (quasar) object.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MigL
    Hawking radiation has to do with the quantum mechanical effect of pair creation near the event horizon of a black hole. Nothing actually comes out of the event horizon but it seems that way because of conservation laws. This is the method by which small black holes evaporate, read up on it.

    What you call 'white holes' are actually rapidly spinning black holes. As mass falls into them and is rapidly accelerated to near ligtt speed,it emits radiation such as gamma and X-rays from the two poles. If we happen to be inline with either pole we see a very bright quasi-stellar (quasar) object.
    And if they spin the fastest they can they would explode.

    Because how can a black hole spin if it has no time? Well, that's because it can have time, since the z & y plane can even have negative time. That's what I believe and that's why it can explode, if it does spin that fast.
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    Me and a friend of mine were talking about the Black Hole theory .
    The theory is that if you tried to go thru a black hole if you could .
    The ship your in would be crushed.

    Questin ? No one on this planet has never realy seen a black hole or being thru one
    where is this theory based on.
    To me all this is theory. How do we know if went thru a black hole with no problems
    there would not be another Galaxy waiting on the other side of the black hole.
    does someone have a answer for this question>
    ********The Sky The Limit********

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    There it's a new theory now about black holes.
    This theory means there is not any black holes, It's black stars.

    But i don't know, I think it black holes exists,
    But a tornado compares with a Black Hole. A tornado sucks everything up with a big force, The black hole sucks everything up becouse the gravitation, But the gravitation have a big force.

    So, A Black Hole can be like a Tornado
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  30. #29  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman
    There it's a new theory now about black holes.
    This theory means there is not any black holes, It's black stars.

    But i don't know, I think it black holes exists,
    But a tornado compares with a Black Hole. A tornado sucks everything up with a big force, The black hole sucks everything up becouse the gravitation, But the gravitation have a big force.

    So, A Black Hole can be like a Tornado
    Your posts suggest you have a excellent grasp of theoretical physics!
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Arceneaux
    Questin ? No one on this planet has never realy seen a black hole or being thru one
    where is this theory based on.
    We do not know everything about gravity or about stellar evolution, but we do know enough to describe what we know in detailed equations. These equations tell us how matter will behave under different circumstances. From that we have been able to predict that a) black holes should exist and b) they should have certain characteristics. We have seen the predicted chracteristics and therefore believe that, based on current theory, that black holes do exist. The observations match the theory, not once, but many times in many ways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Arceneaux
    To me all this is theory.>
    In science theory is the ultimate, not a way station en route to truth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terry Arceneaux
    How do we know if went thru a black hole with no problems there would not be another Galaxy waiting on the other side of the black hole.
    There might be. Some versions of the theory, I believe, do not rule that out.
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday
    Quote Originally Posted by Spaceman
    There it's a new theory now about black holes.
    This theory means there is not any black holes, It's black stars.

    But i don't know, I think it black holes exists,
    But a tornado compares with a Black Hole. A tornado sucks everything up with a big force, The black hole sucks everything up becouse the gravitation, But the gra
    Your posts suggest you have a excellentvitation have a big force.

    So, A Black Hole can be like a Tornado
    grasp of theoretical physics!
    Thank you, I will begin to study Astronomical Science now this fall to spring 2013 :P
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    Here's a different theory (mine, of coarse). I believe that BH are merely astronomical compression units designed to recycle matter and energy to re-seed the universe with the basic building blocks of creation. To take it one step further, I believe under certain circumstances that BH can punch through the fabric of space/time, sending a super compressed particle into a new universe. Once that particle is no longer constrained by the gravity of the BH, it causes a "Big Bang" seeding the new universe. I also believe this is who our universe was created. I welcome any intellectual comments or debates on this theory.
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  34. #33  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KilkennyJake
    Here's a different theory (mine, of coarse)..
    It's not a theory. It barely qualifies as a vague, ill founded idle speculation.

    Quote Originally Posted by KilkennyJake
    I believe that BH are merely astronomical compression units designed to recycle matter and energy to re-seed the universe with the basic building blocks of creation. .
    Believe what you will, beliefs are not science. Vague, ill founded idle speculations are not science. Unless you have observations and efforts that support your contention then your contention is not science.

    Quote Originally Posted by KilkennyJake
    I believe under certain circumstances that BH can punch through the fabric of space/time, sending a super compressed particle into a new universe.
    And why do you believe this? What are the circumstances that permit this to occur? How would you recognise these? What is a super compressed particle? How come no such thing has ever been recognised? Why should it punch through the fabric of space time? What is the mathematical expression describing this 'punch'?

    Quote Originally Posted by KilkennyJake
    I welcome any intellectual comments or debates on this theory.
    Intellectual comments on an unfounded brain fart are difficult to construct. Accept the above observations as my best contribution.

    Note: If you are younger than seventeen I apologise for my sarcastic attack on your efforts to think creatively: they weren't half bad, but do some reading up on what consititutes a theory and upon how science works. If you are older than this then you ruddy well ought to know better by know.
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  35. #34  
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    did you guys see that experiment where they put a burning flame in a large tube and they added cold air to it... and then the flame and everything else in there start spinning uncontrolably...? just seen it on science channel...
    everything gets sucked up to the bottom tip of the flame...
    think about that and my black hole theory... turn off lights and put a light up to it and it will appear like its even attracting light.
    LOL (by know) good one, I have just been convinced by know, noone has come up with a better theory by know, brilliant !!
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  36. #35  
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    for all the immature and insecure monkeys who can only deal with a controversial topic by getting angry and being rude, know this, it doesnt make you any smarter or tougher... many ppl have allot of nerve and lip online but noone real would take advantage and abuse that just because they are hiding behind a computer screen... hate all you want but dont forget who said it first...
    xo's for everyone who hates me for writing this... cheers...
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  37. #36 Re: black hole theory 
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    Quote Originally Posted by CP
    Lets discuss the theory of the black hole being just a galactic Tornado...
    Wouldn't a black hole be more analogous to a "whirlpool" than a "tornado"?
    aguy2
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  38. #37  
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    Dear CP,

    www.VortexMath.com

    Enjoy.
    - mudbug | 6nqpnw -
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  39. #38 My two cents on this subject 
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    I read through all these comments and I believe the main point about black holes has been missed. A black hole is a celestial body and has mass and gravity just like any other celestial body. As far as I know most of the celestial bodies in the universe are in orbit around something, so it stands to reason that the more massive a body is the more mass it will have in orbit around it. Example: Supermassive black holes and surrounding stars. I am assuming that the comparison to a tornado is do to the swirling motion of a good looking spiral galaxy. But quite frankly I still can't see any comparison there. Tornadoes and whirlpools are both funnel shaped and I have yet to see a funnel shaped galaxy. Enough said.
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