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Thread: Big bang- again?

  1. #1 Big bang- again? 
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    gravity pulled everything in the huge black hole of what would become the big bang. but what did it pull together? was there a big bang before the most recent big bang? will our universe be pulled together and "bang" again?


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  3. #2  
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    There will not be another Big Bang in this Universe. Even if the matter in this universe collapses into a singularity and the 'bang' initiates again, it will not be this universe. It will be a different one.


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  4. #3  
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    Explain?
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  5. #4  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    It is the recent verdict of cosmology that the universe is open and that the expansion of the universe is actually accelerating. Thus the universe will not collapse, but will continue expanding forever.
    See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com

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  6. #5  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Do we have any idea where its going? Does anyone believe the universe is like an elastic band and will eventually bounce back? Of course this would imply a boundary or limit to expansion

    I'm no cosmologist so maybe someone could shed some light...the universe should only keep on expanding into whatever it may be expanding into as long as there is no boundary. But if all matter collects at a common boundary then should it not eventually reassemble because of random collisions and mutual attraction. I mean it can't go any farther but matter is still in motion, only it is forced to change direction.
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  7. #6  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    It is the expansion of space itelf we are talking about not the expansion of matter in space. Space is like the surface of a four dimensional sphere and that sphere is expanding like a baloon. There is no boundary to limit its expansion. In fact, there is no space into which it is expanding. As I said it is space itself which is expanding.
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  8. #7  
    Time Lord zinjanthropos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    It is the expansion of space itelf we are talking about not the expansion of matter in space. Space is like the surface of a four dimensional sphere and that sphere is expanding like a baloon. There is no boundary to limit its expansion. In fact, there is no space into which it is expanding. As I said it is space itself which is expanding.
    I kick myself because I have made this same mistake before. Sheeeesh!
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    It is the recent verdict of cosmology that the universe is open and that the expansion of the universe is actually accelerating. Thus the universe will not collapse, but will continue expanding forever.
    this may be because of what we are measuring. if we have 1 big, 1 small object......

    LEGEND
    0=mass
    ........=distance

    0000 .................................................. ......................................
    BIG............................................... .................................................. ....
    object..................0......................... ......................... ...................
    ...........................small object............................................ ...................
    ............................we measure this.............................................. .........
    .................................................. ....................00.......................
    .................................................. ......................earth....................... ....

    the small object would travel toward the big object. at the time we measure the small, it is going 6,000mph toward the big object, and, since we are attracted also, but not as much, we go 2,000mph. it is going relitivly 4,000 mph. we measure it next week. 6,600, to 2,200. its increasing! OMG! STOP. we are measuring the wrong thing. the big object is just accelarating the small. the big object is out of reach of our telescopes, so we cant see it. well, there may be many big objects around. so maybe eventually, alot of different black holes will form. ok, say be go away from the small to another object, thats closer.

    0000 ..........6,000mph, increasing at 2,000 a week
    BIG......................<----
    object..................0
    ...........................small object...........6,000mph, increasing at 2,000 a week
    ............................we measure this.......................--->............................
    .................................................. ....................00........................
    .................................................. ......................earth....................... ....
    .................................................. .................................... 0000....
    .................................................. ...................................BIG object 2

    then the 2 BIG objects come together, one with the earth joined to it, the other with the small object.
    ---->............................................... .. .....................................<------
    00000............................................. ..... .....................00000
    BIG object+small...................................... .......................BIG object+earth


    they unite to form a black hole, black holes unite to make a big bang.


    000000000000000000
    000000000000000000
    000000000000000000

    BIG objects + more BIG objects= black hole


    000000000000000000
    000000000000000000
    000000000000000000
    BIG objects + more BIG objects= black hole

    __________________________________________________ _______________
    000000000000000000
    000000000000000000
    000000000000000000
    000000000000000000
    000000000000000000
    000000000000000000
    HUGE black hole= big bang Again!
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  10. #9  
    Forum Sophomore NimaRahnemoon's Avatar
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    My advice, never use black holes when trying to prove something. We do not know enough about them to make conclusions.
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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    I kick myself because I have made this same mistake before. Sheeeesh!
    This is called consistency. It is an admirable quality.
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    I kick myself because I have made this same mistake before. Sheeeesh!
    This is called consistency. It is an admirable quality.
    Consistently dumb but what the hey? Let's see if I can slip up again, shouldn't be a problem.

    Ok, maybe someone can help me out here? If space is expanding then just what the heck is it? I've read somewhere that scientists are redefining space. Does this mean space is a thing, comprised of some other thing(s)? Is it some form of energy or matter previously not thought of? Did space emerge from the big bang or was it already here?
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    I kick myself because I have made this same mistake before. Sheeeesh!
    This is called consistency. It is an admirable quality.
    Consistently dumb but what the hey? Let's see if I can slip up again, shouldn't be a problem.

    Ok, maybe someone can help me out here? If space is expanding then just what the heck is it? I've read somewhere that scientists are redefining space. Does this mean space is a thing, comprised of some other thing(s)? Is it some form of energy or matter previously not thought of? Did space emerge from the big bang or was it already here?
    Uggg,

    Well I have no choice but to think of it as a paradox after people try to explain it. Some say the big bang occurred and then there was space. This space was and is moving outward. OK. Now I just have to ask if that true then where exactly did the matter for the big bang sit? Did it sit in nothingness (illogical), or did it sit in some form of space that was just void of other matter. I think most people think of space as having matter and energy contained within it. I just think of it as anything at all that can hold anything at all. Such as, I have enough space in my car, or don't invade my space. Then you of course have outer space and perhaps other space. Let's not forget dark matter space and anti matter space and space/time.

    In the end I think we are all just grasping for answers. Everyone wants to have the correct answer (even if it's fantasy) so they don't feel so insignificant and confused.

    I look at it this way, there is enough space between two atoms to hold everything that exists and will ever exist. Just because we can't see it hardly makes it not so.
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  14. #13  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope mitchellmckain's Avatar
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    No space is not moving, that makes no sense, space is expanding. It is not expanding into anything, that makes no sense either. Space is just expanding. This makes perfect sense to mathematicians and physicists, but that is because they use mathematics not common sense.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    No space is not moving, that makes no sense, space is expanding. It is not expanding into anything, that makes no sense either. Space is just expanding. This makes perfect sense to mathematicians and physicists, but that is because they use mathematics not common sense.
    did you even read my post? it makes perfect sense! there is no evidence my theory is wrong. it is just a theory, one that makes perfect sense. any proof it is wrong? i know there is no evidence it is right, and thats why it is a theory. i need proof of wrongness before you firmly state it is wrong.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by chamilton333
    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    No space is not moving, that makes no sense, space is expanding. It is not expanding into anything, that makes no sense either. Space is just expanding. This makes perfect sense to mathematicians and physicists, but that is because they use mathematics not common sense.
    did you even read my post? it makes perfect sense! there is no evidence my theory is wrong. it is just a theory, one that makes perfect sense. any proof it is wrong? i know there is no evidence it is right, and thats why it is a theory. i need proof of wrongness before you firmly state it is wrong.
    I was responding to the post of (In)Sanity not yours. I look at yours and I do not understand what you saying. I keep looking at yours and nothing registers any meaning at all. Sorry.
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  17. #16  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Yes, chalmilton33, you have nobly caused Mithcell and myself to agree. I don't understand your post either.

    By the way, it isn't a theory. At best it might be a hypothesis, but you would need some evidence to call it that. It seems to me it is more like a conjecture.
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  18. #17  
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    I'm of the opinion that "Universe" is not required here. I think that you can certainly have a localized collectiong of matter in the form of galaxies, etc., lose enough momentum to be pulled together by gravity to form an unstable incredibly dense mass that reexplodes, and who's debris will reform into stars, planets, etc.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by zinjanthropos
    Ok, maybe someone can help me out here? If space is expanding then just what the heck is it? I've read somewhere that scientists are redefining space. Does this mean space is a thing, comprised of some other thing(s)? Is it some form of energy or matter previously not thought of? Did space emerge from the big bang or was it already here?
    These are, of course, the questions of the day. I suggest that you cease to ask yourself what space is, and instead ask yourself what space-time is. It is not optimal to attempt to understand space outside of the context of time. It seems that the current understanding is that what emerged from the Big Bang is not space. Instead, space-time is what emerged from the Big Bang.
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  20. #19  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Archie
    There will not be another Big Bang in this Universe. Even if the matter in this universe collapses into a singularity and the 'bang' initiates again, it will not be this universe. It will be a different one.
    A follower of Heraclitus, I see.
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by mitchellmckain
    It is the recent verdict of cosmology that the universe is open and that the expansion of the universe is actually accelerating. Thus the universe will not collapse, but will continue expanding forever.
    This is "just" one of the theories. If you have read something about String Theory and some of the papers by Steinhardt and Turok (you can find them on arxiv.org), then you will see that there still exist theories that favour a cyclic model of the universe.
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  22. #21  
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    If universe goes big bang again by collapsing into a singularity it cant be this universe. that universe will create an entirely new space time coninuum with a different string frequens. and when the frequens is different every force and every particle becomes different. in that universe u migh get 2 forces, maybe even 10 who knows. whats sure is that it wont be this universe
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

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  23. #22  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    If universe goes big bang again by collapsing into a singularity it cant be this universe. that universe will create an entirely new space time coninuum with a different string frequens. and when the frequens is different every force and every particle becomes different. in that universe u migh get 2 forces, maybe even 10 who knows. whats sure is that it wont be this universe
    If this happens infinitely, sooner or later, a space-time continuum equal to what we have today will reappear. Everything with a non-zero probability will happen "infinite times" if something infinite exists, like for instance infinite time or infinite space. Therefore, I think it's most likely (logically, though maybe not mathematically) that either time or space is infinite. It gives answers to a lot of questions if that is the case.
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  24. #23  
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    its interesting, if the universe was created a infinite times in a infinite differens version, each of them having a 1/ infinite chance of getting to be that time. then every universe would exist once and no more.
    chance*times trying = times succed
    1/infinite*infinite = 1
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zelos
    its interesting, if the universe was created a infinite times in a infinite differens version, each of them having a 1/ infinite chance of getting to be that time. then every universe would exist once and no more.
    chance*times trying = times succed
    1/infinite*infinite = 1

    Ehh...no. (Infinite/infinite) != 1. It has no defined solution because "infinite" is no real number. :wink:

    Seing it another way, there is (probably) a finite number of ways to structure the universe, even if it is a huge number.
    Then p(one specific universe)>0, and the Expectation value of that universe is:
    E(that universe)=lim{n->inf}n*p(that universe)=infinity.


    But I think what we are doing now is more philosophy than science.
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  26. #25  
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    yepp, thats why i had the after my message
    I am zelos. Destroyer of planets, exterminator of life, conquerer of worlds. I have come to rule this uiniverse. And there is nothing u pathetic biengs can do to stop me

    On the eighth day Zelos said: 'Let there be darkness,' and the light was never again seen.

    The king of posting
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