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Thread: Time before time?

  1. #1 Time before time? 
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    OK, so today we have everyone thinking the Big Bang Theory happened, and I guess I agree with that. But many people say the Big Bang created the universe, and I don't think that's right. I think it just expanded it a ton. But what started the universe. It couldn't have just started. There had to have been something that created it.

    I mean, OK, before the Big Bang, the universe was a dumb formless void devoid of life, ect., but what about before that? When did the universe start and what forces created it, you can't say it's been here forever, because forever had to start sometime or another and I promise you the universe didn't just pop out of nowhere in two seconds.

    Discuss.


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    Forum Ph.D. Darius's Avatar
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    "created the universe" is meant as "created the known universe". Though perhaps even "formed the known universe" is more accurate.


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    "In dishonorable things we are not bound to obey any man." - The Book of the Courtier [1561], pg 99 (144 in pdf)
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    Oh my bad I'm only in seventh grade so I'm new to the whole scientific world, I guess that'd be more accurate, yeah, any thoughts about that?
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    There is no current scientific knowledge on what existed prior to the known universe. It may also help to know that "big bang" is a misnomer, as it was simply rapid expansion. What caused it, nobody currently knows, and you don't exactly have to pick an ideology due to that ignorance.
    Om mani padme hum

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    the universe clearly didnt just poped out just like that, but a theory say's that the universe was before a infinitly dense and infinitly hot mollecula, it was probably part of another structure, but it was for sure part of a whole if you go whit logic and physic it clearly cant have been just floating in emptyness like that
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  7. #6  
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    Quote Originally Posted by oblivion825
    the universe clearly didnt just poped out just like that, but a theory say's that the universe was before a infinitly dense and infinitly hot mollecula, it was probably part of another structure, but it was for sure part of a whole if you go whit logic and physic it clearly cant have been just floating in emptyness like that
    Actually logic and physics can't explain or dismiss anything before the Big Bang. It can only try to explain the Universe unfolding 'since the big Bang. We have no way of knowing what was 'before'.... or even the concept of a time line in which a 'before' existed. 'Time' before the Big Bang has no basis in physics. All is speculation
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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by raptordigits
    'Time' before the Big Bang has no basis in physics. All is speculation
    Well... yes and no. A lot of good work is being done with Loop Quantum Gravity. Still not solid yet, but is challenging conventional understanding of BB physics. An overall good exploration which is accessible to the novice is available here:

    http://www.aei.mpg.de/einsteinOnline...ogy/index.html
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  9. #8  
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    inow,

    Thanks for a link to that site. The site is quite a gold mine of information. I'll be spending many hours wading through the material.

    Re Quantum Loop Gravity. Puting kinks in BB theory is one thing, but then introducing Quantum Loop Gravity to fill the explanation void is quite tentative. Whether describing reality or not, it's difficult to know how Quantum Loop Gravity ever becomes more than educated speculation. What variables can be observed or described to support it? Regardless, it's fascinating stuff.
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    You're welcome. I've enjoyed some time at that site myself.

    The thing that sticks with me is that the BB is not really a singularity. It's just the point where our current mathematical models break down. So, we study this in other ways and with other models, and we might get new insights and understandings.

    The larger point, though... Is that just because our models break down and suggest a singularity, that does not mean that reality did the same (in short, it does not mean that the universe actually was one).

    Cheers.
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  11. #10  
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    Some scientists think that random quantum fluctuations caused the BB. Others think that the universe simply "sprouted" from a larger parallel universe. Except for theories and assumptions, no one really knows what existed before what we call "time". Time is, after all, another dimension which is a part of this universe, but might not be at a theoretical parallel universe.
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  12. #11  
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    Time logically cannot have existed pre-universe
    Time is nothing more than a measurement of atomic decay, so before the BB without matter, without atoms, there can be no time


    That said it's impossible to determine what existed before the start, if matter existed, even in some supercondensed singularity of a singularity, then time would feasably exist


    Alternatively, our version of time, the decay in our known dimensions and universe might be entirely relative, before the start, time might have existed in another form.
    Plato once said, "Absolute Morals, if they existed, would be such a different entity, we would not recognise them", I think the same can be said here, Time before time if such a different thing, so completely abstract from anything we could compare it too, that was can't even begin to imagine it
    It's not how many questions you ask, but the answers you get - Booms

    This is the Acadamy of Science! we don't need to 'prove' anything!
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