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Thread: What makes up a Black Hole compared to Neutron Stars

  1. #1 What makes up a Black Hole compared to Neutron Stars 
    New Member Tau Neutrino's Avatar
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    Aug 2009
    (I wasn't sure which forum this would better fit in, so I entered it in both the physics and Astronomy forum).

    I understand how we don't know for sure what is inside a black hole. And I saw in a different topic someone mention that the math shows a black hole having 0 volume and infinite density. But it is after all, a collapsed star. It should still be made up of the same stuff that made that star.

    Knowing that neutron stars are made up almost entirely of neutrons, it is pretty hard to get denser then that, yet black holes seem to surpass this density easily.

    The only thing we know to be smaller then a neutron are quarks. If something was made of quarks tightly packed together, it would be denser then if something was made of neutrons packed together (i.e. denser then a neutron star).

    Another thing to consider is what happens inside particle accelerators. After some people got all freaked out on the notion that the LHC could "create a black hole," scientist said that yes, a black hole could be created, but it would be so small that it wouldn't be able to support itself and would fall apart almost instantly.

    These micro black holes created in particle accelerators could be the result of the quarks from the protons/neutrons grouping up. After the atoms hit each other at extreme speeds, everything is blasted apart, including the subatomic particles. The quarks that made up the subatomic particles might group up, creating an extremely dense object, dense enough to be considered a black hole.

    My hypothesis is this: After a massive enough dying star collapses, the particles are smashed into each other so hard, that they break up into quarks. The quarks would then either have too much energy, or be to mixed up to form protons/neutrons right away. Since there is so much mass, the gravity would overtake the strong force, and keep them from forming up over time. You would then have a super dense sphere, made up of nothing but quarks.

    I am extremely new to physics (taking my first physics class in high school this year), so all my knowledge is from what I've read on wikipedia/forums and from what I've seen on TV. I know almost nothing of the strong force, so my hypothesis could be completely wrong because of that. But my general idea is that a black hole is made up entirely of quarks.

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  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator Dishmaster's Avatar
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    Apr 2008
    Heidelberg, Germany
    First, any body that produces a gravitational force that is strong enough to create an escape velocity that is bigger than the speed of light is a Black Hole. It can be a star, but that is not necessary. The Black Holes in the centre of galaxies consist probably of many stars and lots of gas. Maybe, it can also be an elementary particle of very high density. However, something having a mass that collapses down to a Black Hole does not suddenly have a stronger gravitational force that sucks everything in, because it still has the same mass, hence the the same gravitational force. The difference will only be felt very close to it.

    The fact that a star collapses down to a Black Hole means that there is no force known today that can balance out the gravitational force that causes the collapse. In White Dwarves it is the degeneracy pressure of the electrons, in neutron stars it is the degeneracy pressure of the neutrons. But as soon as the gravitational force is larger than this pressure, the star will collapse even further. Unless there is another force producing another equilibrium, there is nothing that can stop the collapse. Only the unification of quantumchromodynamics and gravity could provide an answer, what happens there.

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  4. #3  
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Tau Neutrino. A neutron star can have an escape velocity of over 120,000 mps. That means at 2/3c, neutrons still exist. There is no evidence that electrons, quarks and other fundamental particles can be crushed to anything smaller. There is no reason to believe that there is a point of infinite density in a black hole. Like infinity, the word singularity exists in maths only. Not the real world. We know that all black holes rotate so they cannot have a zero dimensional point inside them. They probably have a perfect sphere of fundamental particles, every part of which is trying to rotate at the maximum possible speed for matter.

    If it were possible to make a micro black hole using great forces, as soon as those forces were removed, the black hole would cease to exist.

    To nail another fable. You'll hear nonsense ideas about how gravity escapes from a black hole (as it travels at c). Common sense says that gravity cannot stop gravity. Easy.
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