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Thread: Life on other planets

  1. #1 Life on other planets 
    Forum Freshman deadcat's Avatar
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    Anything on this?

    I'll start off, it recently came to my knowledge that when stars are forming chunks come out and make the planets and all that and it shoots out huge meteoriods that contain frozen water. We've found evidence of possible bacteria on mars already (way back actually 90's). I was wondering when these meteoriods with frozen water come into earth is there bacteria already on them? Or is it not forming until it is on the planet (earth/mars/where ever)? Because if the bacteria becomes part of the meteor as the star is forming I think it would be inevitable for life to form on other planets. Any opinions on this subject?


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  3. #2 Re: Life on other planets 
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadcat
    Anything on this?

    I'll start off, it recently came to my knowledge that when stars are forming chunks come out and make the planets and all that and it shoots out huge meteors of frozen water. We've found frozen micro bacteria on mars already (way back actually 90's). I was wondering when these meteors of frozen water come into earth is there micro bacteria already on them? Or is it not forming until it is on the planet (earth/mars/where ever)? Because if the micro bacteria becomes part of the meteor as the star is forming I think it would be inevitable for life to form on other planets. Any opinions on this subject?
    er, NO we did not find any frozen bacteria on Mars, if you mean all planets ie those arond other stars and within other galaxies then even I, the great and all knowing about nothing must conced the possiblilty of microbial life among the stars, I have to say much of your post is a little less than scientific in it's terms so maybe I misunderstand your questions/observations.


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  4. #3 Re: Life on other planets 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megabrain
    Quote Originally Posted by deadcat
    Anything on this?

    I'll start off, it recently came to my knowledge that when stars are forming chunks come out and make the planets and all that and it shoots out huge meteors of frozen water. We've found frozen micro bacteria on mars already (way back actually 90's). I was wondering when these meteors of frozen water come into earth is there micro bacteria already on them? Or is it not forming until it is on the planet (earth/mars/where ever)? Because if the micro bacteria becomes part of the meteor as the star is forming I think it would be inevitable for life to form on other planets. Any opinions on this subject?
    er, NO we did not find any frozen bacteria on Mars, if you mean all planets ie those arond other stars and within other galaxies then even I, the great and all knowing about nothing must conced the possiblilty of microbial life among the stars, I have to say much of your post is a little less than scientific in it's terms so maybe I misunderstand your questions/observations.
    Had to re-look into this, yeah you're right we didn't find bacteria I misread, but there might be ( http://www.space.com/scienceastronom...mars-soil.html ) life, and about the meteor (I guess it was meteoroid actually) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meteor#Meteoroid (they can be about 1/4 ice). I seen there were a few differences I needed to see by looking these up, but the original statement is still more or less valid, don't you think? the elements that make up water forming in space then turning into ice b/c of the temperature, but do you think the bacteria becomes part of the ice before or after it enters the atmosphere?

    but before you answer check this out:
    http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/200...runc_sys.shtml

    I just noticed this guy was saying the same thing,
    "We have argued for more than two decades that terrestrial life was brought down to Earth by comets and that cometary material containing microorganisms must still be reaching us in large quantities,"
    -Professor Wickramasinghe.
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  5. #4  
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    One thing I would like to emphasize. It is easy to show that certain bacteria can live in some very hostile conditions, possibly including Mars. However, these bacteria have been evolving for nearly 4 billion years and have many adaptations to those hostile conditions.

    To suggest that life could actually arise under those same hostile conditions is quite a different matter. My own feeling is that is unlikely. Genesis of life probably needs an environment that is relatively stable, providing 'havens' from intense energies such as ultra violet or cosmic rays, and requiring reasonable amounts of liquid water.

    I would not, however, be surprised for future studies to discover bacteria on Mars. I suspect they will be closely related to Earth bacteria. Certain bacterial spores can survive long periods in space, and massive asteroid impacts on Earth (like the dinosaur killer) can throw Earth rocks into space, from where they can drift to Mars orbit. So, it is theoretically possible that 65 million years ago, Earth rocks containing bacterial spores were thrown into solar orbit, and eventually fell to Mars.

    Perhaps a little unlikely, but definitely within the realms of possibility.
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  6. #5  
    Forum Freshman deadcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skeptic
    One thing I would like to emphasize. It is easy to show that certain bacteria can live in some very hostile conditions, possibly including Mars. However, these bacteria have been evolving for nearly 4 billion years and have many adaptations to those hostile conditions.

    To suggest that life could actually arise under those same hostile conditions is quite a different matter. My own feeling is that is unlikely. Genesis of life probably needs an environment that is relatively stable, providing 'havens' from intense energies such as ultra violet or cosmic rays, and requiring reasonable amounts of liquid water.

    I would not, however, be surprised for future studies to discover bacteria on Mars. I suspect they will be closely related to Earth bacteria. Certain bacterial spores can survive long periods in space, and massive asteroid impacts on Earth (like the dinosaur killer) can throw Earth rocks into space, from where they can drift to Mars orbit. So, it is theoretically possible that 65 million years ago, Earth rocks containing bacterial spores were thrown into solar orbit, and eventually fell to Mars.

    Perhaps a little unlikely, but definitely within the realms of possibility.
    good point, that would explain why bacteria could get to mars, they say when the moon was created it was from us hitting another planet so at that point even a piece of our planet (w/water) may have went into/onto mars. Also you have to consider life can adapt to live in just about any situation, there's life at the bottom of the sea in some places where the water is trapped and heated making it hotter than boiling and life exist there, this is just one example. It would seem somewhat closed minded to assume earth is the only planet that has the possibility of creating life. I think there would just have to be a planet that can hold water within a certain temp range (not going too extreme), it just probably not too common of an occurrence in the space we know of.
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  7. #6  
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    they say when the moon was created it was from us hitting another planet so at that point even a piece of our planet (w/water) may have went into/onto mars.
    This is true, but it happened way before any life emerged and even if it did it would have been vaporised I think. For all we know life originated on Mars and we got seeded from it.

    I am pretty much 100% certain that life must exist somewhere else. The odds are just overwhelming.
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  8. #7  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    they say when the moon was created it was from us hitting another planet so at that point even a piece of our planet (w/water) may have went into/onto mars.
    This is true, but it happened way before any life emerged and even if it did it would have been vaporised I think. For all we know life originated on Mars and we got seeded from it.

    I am pretty much 100% certain that life must exist somewhere else. The odds are just overwhelming.
    If there wasn't, it would kinda support the 'I am your God and I made you' theory. Either that or I should start playing the lottery more

    Seriously though I always thought life on Earth was an accident, I mean how is it possible for molten rock to turn into pools of RNA? The odds of us being alone in the universe is very unlikely. I've had the odd 'dream' of aliens myself and there are that many reports of UFO's and abductions I'm positive there is life out there. Or should I say.... down there.... Life in our galaxy may be as murderous as we are now, that is not a happy prospect to come to realise...
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bad Wolf
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    they say when the moon was created it was from us hitting another planet so at that point even a piece of our planet (w/water) may have went into/onto mars.
    This is true, but it happened way before any life emerged and even if it did it would have been vaporised I think. For all we know life originated on Mars and we got seeded from it.

    I am pretty much 100% certain that life must exist somewhere else. The odds are just overwhelming.
    If there wasn't, it would kinda support the 'I am your God and I made you' theory. Either that or I should start playing the lottery more

    Seriously though I always thought life on Earth was an accident, I mean how is it possible for molten rock to turn into pools of RNA? The odds of us being alone in the universe is very unlikely. I've had the odd 'dream' of aliens myself and there are that many reports of UFO's and abductions I'm positive there is life out there. Or should I say.... down there.... Life in our galaxy may be as murderous as we are now, that is not a happy prospect to come to realise...
    Also they say the universe has an age, if this is true that may mean that any other possible life has only had the same time we have had to evolve, and who knows if that would be faster or slower or even the same, just may be a reason why we would have not seen them (maybe they would still be in an animal stage or bacteria etc...) Kinda make you wonder about a lot. That'd be cool if they can try to induce life to exist on other planets or space, see if it can naturally evolve/change (would take WAY too long to view in one lifetime though)
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  10. #9  
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    Also they say the universe has an age, if this is true that may mean that any other possible life has only had the same time we have had to evolve, and who knows if that would be faster or slower or even the same, just may be a reason why we would have not seen them (maybe they would still be in an animal stage or bacteria etc...)
    As far as is known, the earth formed about 4.5 billion years ago, while the universe is thought to be around 13.7 billion years old. When you consider that humans in our present form are only around 200 000 years old, I would not be very surprised if a super advanced race is flying around out there. Who knows, maybe they seeded the earth. :wink:
    Disclaimer: I do not declare myself to be an expert on ANY subject. If I state something as fact that is obviously wrong, please don't hesitate to correct me. I welcome such corrections in an attempt to be as truthful and accurate as possible.

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  11. #10  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    they say when the moon was created it was from us hitting another planet so at that point even a piece of our planet (w/water) may have went into/onto mars.
    This is true, but it happened way before any life emerged and even if it did it would have been vaporised I think. For all we know life originated on Mars and we got seeded from it.

    I am pretty much 100% certain that life must exist somewhere else. The odds are just overwhelming.
    actually they think some bacteria can survive in space
    ( http://www.scienceagogo.com/news/200...runc_sys.shtml ), but yeah I don't think this happened like that either, was just more or less agreeing this is within the range of being possible. And I'd have to agree with you in saying there's no doubt life exists some where out there, for all we know the universe can expand to infinity (hard to imagine "infinity" as real, I think of it the same as this: there was no beginning to time right? No end, it's just there) so who knows what kind of crazy stuff is out there especially if we had to ability to view the universe as a whole (kinda trippy when you think about it)
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  12. #11  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    Also they say the universe has an age, if this is true that may mean that any other possible life has only had the same time we have had to evolve, and who knows if that would be faster or slower or even the same, just may be a reason why we would have not seen them (maybe they would still be in an animal stage or bacteria etc...)
    As far as is known, the earth formed about 4.5 billion years ago, while the universe is thought to be around 13.7 billion years old. When you consider that humans in our present form are only around 200 000 years old, I would not be very surprised if a super advanced race is flying around out there. Who knows, maybe they seeded the earth. :wink:
    yeah, didn't know the exact numbers, but, damn good point! I've considered the same thing, b/c if you think about it we're almost able to create a micro world if we wanted to, couple thousand more years who knows
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  13. #12 Re: Life on other planets 
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadcat
    Anything on this?

    I'll start off, it recently came to my knowledge that when stars are forming chunks come out and make the planets and all that and it shoots out huge meteoriods that contain frozen water. We've found evidence of possible bacteria on mars already (way back actually 90's). I was wondering when these meteoriods with frozen water come into earth is there bacteria already on them? Or is it not forming until it is on the planet (earth/mars/where ever)? Because if the bacteria becomes part of the meteor as the star is forming I think it would be inevitable for life to form on other planets. Any opinions on this subject?

    There are so many solar systems out there that the only ones we don't know about are the ones that their light has not reached us in billions of years.

    Even if the odds were 1/10000000000 , there would still be plenty of planets with life.

    Now intelligent life? That is a really interesting question, to think there are beings out there wondering the same things about the universe as we are...
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  14. #13 Re: Life on other planets 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond K
    Quote Originally Posted by deadcat
    Anything on this?

    I'll start off, it recently came to my knowledge that when stars are forming chunks come out and make the planets and all that and it shoots out huge meteoriods that contain frozen water. We've found evidence of possible bacteria on mars already (way back actually 90's). I was wondering when these meteoriods with frozen water come into earth is there bacteria already on them? Or is it not forming until it is on the planet (earth/mars/where ever)? Because if the bacteria becomes part of the meteor as the star is forming I think it would be inevitable for life to form on other planets. Any opinions on this subject?

    There are so many solar systems out there that the only ones we don't know about are the ones that their light has not reached us in billions of years.

    Even if the odds were 1/10000000000 , there would still be plenty of planets with life.

    Now intelligent life? That is a really interesting question, to think there are beings out there wondering the same things about the universe as we are...
    True, almost all species on earth just kinda do there thing, there's not many that can actually think about concepts.
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  15. #14  
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    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    I am pretty much 100% certain that life must exist somewhere else. The odds are just overwhelming.
    I believe life to be fairly widespread but the life forms to be largely primitive. I feel that advanced technological civilisations (such as our own) are rare, but I could be wrong.
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halliday
    Quote Originally Posted by KALSTER
    I am pretty much 100% certain that life must exist somewhere else. The odds are just overwhelming.
    I believe life to be fairly widespread but the life forms to be largely primitive. I feel that advanced technological civilisations (such as our own) are rare, but I could be wrong.
    Well it only took us 200,000 years to evolve and thats noting compared to the 4< billion years it took for our planet to form.


    But the way they evoulve would be diffierent, for exaple their climate was different than ours.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond K
    Well it only took us 200,000 years to evolve and thats noting compared to the 4< billion years it took for our planet to form.
    I don't think its fair to say, "we've only been evolving for 200,000 years." A good amount of evolution had to happen just for mammals to exist, let alone bipedal, self-aware, monkeys. Like any other Eukariote, we got our start over 1.5 billion years ago and we've needed every step of the way. Single-celled to multi-celled to bony fish to tetropod to synapsid to placental mammal, and the billions of steps between each of those. If just one thing had gone just a little bit differently, we likely wouldn't be here at all right now.

    There is also little reason to think that life had to be "seeded" here from somewhere else. Abiogenesis has quite a bit of evidence supporting it and it fits in quite well with what we know about Earth's pre-biotic history. Though there is the possibility that some of the organic chemicals from which life formed were "alien" in origin, but I don't really know much about that.

    So to answer the question. Yes, given the number of stars and planets, I think life forming and maybe even evolving somewhere else is pretty probable. Intelligent life may also be probable, but considerably less likely. Who knows, maybe we're the most advanced ones out there?
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  18. #17  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finger
    There is also little reason to think that life had to be "seeded" here from somewhere else.
    There is considerable reason. We have strong evidence that life existed 3.5 billion years ago, possibly as early as 3.8 billion years ago. Yet the Late Heavy Bombardment phase, that would have generated plaent wide sterilising events, did not end till 3.8 billion years ago. That leaves between 300 million years and almost no time at all for life to develop from a bunch of chemicals.

    It took almost two billion years for eukaryotes to develop from prokaryotes, yet there is a far smaller difference in complexity between these than between prebiotic chemicals and prokaryotes.

    Two obvious solutions exist: there is a mechanism which favours the rapid emergence of a simple prokaryotic life form in a relatively rapid time span; or life was seeded from elsewhere. Until and unless we produce a plausible mechanism for the former that demonstrably could unfold in the available time, then pan spermia remains a viable option.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finger
    Abiogenesis has quite a bit of evidence supporting it and it fits in quite well with what we know about Earth's pre-biotic history..
    pan spermia in no way excludes abiogenesis, it merely relocates it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Finger
    Though there is the possibility that some of the organic chemicals from which life formed were "alien" in origin,
    This is a virtual certainty. Many varied organic molecules are ubiquitous in deep space. It would require some truly bizarre mechanisms for them not to have been the major contributor to the Earth's pre-biotic chemistry.
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt
    Quote Originally Posted by Finger
    There is also little reason to think that life had to be "seeded" here from somewhere else.
    There is considerable reason. We have strong evidence that life existed 3.5 billion years ago, possibly as early as 3.8 billion years ago. Yet the Late Heavy Bombardment phase, that would have generated plaent wide sterilising events, did not end till 3.8 billion years ago. That leaves between 300 million years and almost no time at all for life to develop from a bunch of chemicals.
    While I agree that might be a short time, the pan spermia has the same problem, because most likely it would have come from inside our young solar system. Either way means abiogenesis doesn't need a lot time given the right circumstances.
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  20. #19  
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    Before I say anything about the Solar System, I would like to comment about the existence of bacteria

    These organisms can exist at temperatures of 160 degrees fahrenheit that were detected in the Yellostone geysters.
    Sweden also discovered bacteria at a depth of about 3 kilometers(?) in the Earths crust .
    The temperature at that depth must also be very high.

    On the other hand, human eggs and sperm can exist at 70K, cooled by liquid nitrogen. At this temperature, things are frozen rock solid.
    So it makes sense that if these lifesorms can exist at 70K, then there must be a good possibility that lowering the temperature to 3K, is a good propability that they can survive at that temperature as well.

    And if this were true, than life can be considered to be everlasting throughout the universe.

    Regarding the formation of the solar system, my opinion is that the entire solar system was formed at the same time with the heavier bodies swirling around like a giant centrifuge.
    So the light gasses collect in the center to form the Sun while the heavier objects result in their restoration as planets.
    The outer large planets accumalated more mass as a result of all the solar explosive ejections of these gasses to the regions of these outer planets.

    NS
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  21. #20  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox
    While I agree that might be a short time, the pan spermia has the same problem, because most likely it would have come from inside our young solar system. Either way means abiogenesis doesn't need a lot time given the right circumstances.
    If life originates within GMCs rather than on/in planetary surfaces, then the available volume of reacting material is several orders of magnitude greater, which increases the likelihood of unlikely reactions occuring, even if the available time is not increased.
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