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Thread: 2012 Alignment of Sun to the Galaxy center

  1. #1 2012 Alignment of Sun to the Galaxy center 
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    I heard that in 2012 the Sun will align with the center of the Milky Way. Actually I heard that the Sun goes through this "alignment" over over a period of several years and 2012 is near the end of this "alignment".

    Is there any reason to think that this "alignment" could effect the Earth in some way?

    The only think I could think of is that at the center of a galaxy is a black hole. A black hole can emit a beam of radiation. I wonder if the Sun could cross such a beam during this "alignment", and this could effect the climate on Earth??


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    http://www.alignment2012.com/whatisGA.htm
    The Galactic Alignment is the alignment of the December solstice sun with the Galactic equator. This alignment occurs as a result of the precession of the equinoxes.
    Apparently this marks the end of an era on the Mayan calendar. There is no reason to think it will affect anything on earth unless you are of a superstitious nature.


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  4. #3 Re: 2012 Alignment of Sun to the Galaxy center 
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedo
    The only think I could think of is that at the center of a galaxy is a black hole. A black hole can emit a beam of radiation. I wonder if the Sun could cross such a beam during this "alignment", and this could effect the climate on Earth??
    Yes, it has been well established that there is a Black Hole in the centre of the Milky Way. But it is dormant for now. Compared to active galactic nuclei (AGN), only little material is falling into the Black Hole in the centre of the Milky Way. As a result, there is no radiation emitted from it as observed for QSOs and other AGN. There is also no reason to believe that this would change in the near future. Furthermore, such a beam of radiation would be a high velocity jet of mostly electrons and synchrotron radiation ejected more or less perpendicularly to the galactic plane. So, it would only hit something that is at the galactic poles and not within the plane. The QSO of an AGN also hosts an accretion disc at very high temperatures due to friction. It is known that such a disc can emit Xrays, but this is rather uniform than beamed into a particular direction. But such a scenario does not apply to the Milky way either.
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  5. #4  
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    Thanks Guys,

    I hope this is just superstition. I did find a couple references today that speculate on how our sun's path through the Milky Way could effect climate. Whether this is science or "pseudoscience", I am not sure:

    1. http://www.mondovista.com/endtime2x.html

    This author has a blog that suggests that the Earth's path in the galactic equator will expose the Earth to increased gamma rays that could result in a solar flare. The author suggests the last ice age ended because of this.

    2. http://www.iop.org/EJ/article/0004-6.../61945.web.pdf

    This author suggests that when the Earth passes through the spiral arms of the Milky Way, the passage would tend to cool the Earth and cause an ice age.

    So it is hard to know whether to get a snow mobile or a beach umbrella.
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  6. #5  
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    The two references have very different quality and credibility. The second one is an article in a professional astrophysical journal. All articles in there are peer reviewed, i.e. they go through a process in which fellow astrophysicists anonymously evaluate the content and the results. Especially this journal has the highest reputation among professional astrophysicists. So, this article has at least a solid scientific background. Please note that they do not claim a firm relationship, but talk about coinciding phenomena that suggest a possible relationship.
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    Hello every one, I was also intrigued by this event, perhaps because every summer feels hotter and hotter and I'm sure Global warming has a lot to do with it but this were a few questions I had about the black hole in our galaxy in terms of its contributions to our climate:

    Since the black hole in our galaxy is about 25,000 light yrs away but its known to be dormant; meaning only small amounts of matter enter and thus not emitting as much radiation or perhaps none.

    Then how do we calculate the radiation that the earth is being exposed right now and how can we approximate the changes if anything when the sun its in the way?

    And finally, is there a way of translating that radiation to our temperature in the earth or perhaps would it affect the electromagnetic cascade showers currently.

    Well, at it seems a nonthreatening concept for now and hopefully not any time soon perhaps we can take advantage of any small change if there is away to get energy from this kind of radiation. Is there any kind of radiation/energy sources being developed?

    sincerely,

    Oscar San Emeterio Nateras
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    Hmm...

    Lately, I've been really researching this event in 2012. What disturbs me is how the mayans knew anything of an event like this. Its really odd. I know they studied seasons but this seems unique.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightingbird
    What disturbs me is how the mayans knew anything of an event like this. Its really odd. I know they studied seasons but this seems unique.
    Did they really? Isn't it just a coincidence that one of their calenders ends in the same year? The event discussed here is not really that significant.
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  10. #9  
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    So I read the second link. Amazing. Sounds very logical. Kinda of disturbing if true.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightingbird
    Hmm...

    Lately, I've been really researching this event in 2012. What disturbs me is how the mayans knew anything of an event like this. Its really odd. I know they studied seasons but this seems unique.
    If you look at the link I posted above, the actual alignment already occurred in 1998. Then for some reason they add plus or minus 18 years and call it "era 2012."

    So, I don't know if the Mayas were off by 14 years, or what. Anyway, if something were going to happen due to this alignment it would have happened already.

    One thing that is not clear to me is how the Mayas, or anybody, determines the alignment of the sun with the stars, which would not be visible at the same time of day.
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    Unless I am misunderstanding this, during this "alignment", the Earth and the Sun will be in the Galactic plane and lined up with the center of the Milky Way.

    I think the data on gamma rays in the plane of the Milky Way is really in its infancy--(unfortunately for us).

    This link discusses a new gamma ray telescope that came on line just last year:

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...082603101.html

    I think the gamma rays often come in bursts. So as long as we are in this period of "alignment", we may be at risk for a sudden burst of gamma rays + any solar flares resulting from this.

    I saw another blog that said that in the galactic plane there is also an increased risk of asteroid strike.

    We may need to finish any projects in "pseudoscience" section on force fields and energy rays ASAP.

    How much the Mayans new about this is beyond me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedo
    Unless I am misunderstanding this, during this "alignment", the Earth and the Sun will be in the Galactic plane and lined up with the center of the Milky Way.
    No. It's got to do with the precession of the equinoxes, and that depends on the tilt of the earth's axis. So they aren't talking about the position of the solar system in the middle of the galaxy.
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by dedo
    I think the gamma rays often come in bursts. So as long as we are in this period of "alignment", we may be at risk for a sudden burst of gamma rays + any solar flares resulting from this.
    Gamma rays are a form of electromagnetic radiation. If they are emitted inside the galactic plane, they do not stay there but can propagate in an direction. Any chance of being hit by them is therefore not more likely when inside the galactic plane. Furthermore, gamma rays are mostly originated from far beyond the outer rim of the Milky Way. On the other hand, the radiation density in the UV might be higher inside the galactic plane because of the higher density of high mass (i.e. hotter) stars. But this does not happen momentarily, but gradually, and should be affecting us already now.
    Quote Originally Posted by dedo
    I saw another blog that said that in the galactic plane there is also an increased risk of asteroid strike.
    Since it is believed that some comets begin their travel into the inner regions of the solar system because of gravitational perturbations caused by stars passing the hypothesised Oort cloud, it could mean that such an event is more likely inside the galactic plane, where the stellar density is higher. But again, this does not happen suddenly but gradually. However, it is very difficult to actually verify such a scenario, because to my knowledge, the Oort cloud is still not proved and how actually comets start their passage is not fully understood.
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    alignment in what sense? i am not able to understand in which way the Sun will be in alignment with the Center... please can anyone clarify?
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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sudhamsu
    alignment in what sense? i am not able to understand in which way the Sun will be in alignment with the Center... please can anyone clarify?
    The winter solstice position of the sun appears to be projected onto the galactic plane. However, it is not even close to the galactic centre but a few degrees off. I also cannot see, why this means that the solar system is inside the galactic plane, because such an "alignment" or "passage" happens every year, although not necessarily during winter solstice which is purely a phenomenon of the Earth's precession. And we are always more or less inside the galactic plane with some oscillation across the height of the plane. According to the following link to a PDF article, the solar system is currently about 10 - 20 pc above the galactic plane. It is oscillating with a period of 52 to 74 million years and with an amplitude of 49 to 93 pc around the galactic plane (note the huge uncertainties). The big discrepancy of the period of the crossing through the galactic plane and the "alignment" of the projected winter solstice position (26 000 years) already demonstrates that both phenomena are not related at all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harold14370
    Quote Originally Posted by Lightingbird
    Hmm...

    Lately, I've been really researching this event in 2012. What disturbs me is how the mayans knew anything of an event like this. Its really odd. I know they studied seasons but this seems unique.
    If you look at the link I posted above, the actual alignment already occurred in 1998. Then for some reason they add plus or minus 18 years and call it "era 2012."

    So, I don't know if the Mayas were off by 14 years, or what. Anyway, if something were going to happen due to this alignment it would have happened already.

    One thing that is not clear to me is how the Mayas, or anybody, determines the alignment of the sun with the stars, which would not be visible at the same time of day.
    Agreed. I get that. Let me ask this. Now I agree no one knows the exact date of the alignment. Lets say it happens in a few months. hypothetically of course. What would be outcome?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lightingbird
    Agreed. I get that. Let me ask this. Now I agree no one knows the exact date of the alignment. Lets say it happens in a few months. hypothetically of course. What would be outcome?
    Why do you say no one knows the date? As I said before, the date is past. It was in 1998, according to the web site I linked to. If you are referring to the plus or minus 18 years, that was because of the angle subtended by the width of the sun, not uncertainty in the calculation.

    Hypothetically, nothing happens. As Dishmaster explained, such an alignment occurs once every year. It just so happens that during "era 2012" the alignment happens near the December solstice. Due to precession of the earth's axis, the solstice occurs at a slightly different point in the earth's orbit each year. So ever since 1998, we have been going further out of alignment.
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    Oh I see. Thanks for clearing that up for me.
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    As far as I know, the alignment is suppose cause increased severe weather, and magnetic pole shifts, but nothing to serious.. like uh the "end of the world", but it is suppose to happen.
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    What is the difference between the galactic plane and the galactic equator?

    The various links seem to say that the solar system is in the equator but above the plane.
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  22. #21 2012 
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    This message is to my friend mr. Dishmaster.You seem like a very reliable source so i have decided to ask you :P .In 2012 on December, 21st What is the worst case possible scenerio from this alignment and how would i prepare for such a thing?Would it be the severe weather changes?,or can i even prepare?

    ps.my grammar sucks so cut me some slack lol
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  23. #22  
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    Aligned from what viewing position? The planets are always aligned when looking from somewhere...
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  24. #23 Re: 2012 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticmager1
    This message is to my friend mr. Dishmaster.You seem like a very reliable source so i have decided to ask you :P .In 2012 on December, 21st What is the worst case possible scenerio from this alignment and how would i prepare for such a thing?Would it be the severe weather changes?,or can i even prepare?

    ps.my grammar sucks so cut me some slack lol
    As said on other occasions and even in this thread: There is no real alignment taking place. It is just a matter of a point-of-view and a coincidence. There is really nothing special about that date. Just have a nice day and prepare for Christmas.
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  25. #24 2012 and stuff 
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    December 21st 2012 is when the Mayan "long count" calender ends. This is going to be absolutely disasterous !!.........

    ........for the Mayans; as now someone from their village will have to pop down the locla stationery store and buy a new calender.


    In all seriousness though; the Super massive black hole in the centre of our galaxy, someone has said on this forum is 25,000 light years away; and someone else has said that it is now dormant.

    Hmmm, well, all we know is thta it WAS dormant 25,000 years ago; whether it still is or not is a matter for debate. We can NEVER know what the black hole is doing right this moment, until its light reaches us in 25,000 years time.

    - As it has also been mentioned - the high polar particle jets that get emitted at near light speed would not come anywhere near us as we are on the galactical plane. The only thing, to my mind that would have any effect is an intense gravitational pull as the equator region of the black hole, and that somehow the Earth was aligned with it. This certainly would not be dooms day but it would not be very pleasant - The extra tug on the Earth could set volcanoes erupting, powerful earthquakes etc, etc. My guess is that such an event would also cause the magnetic poles to flip.

    But that really is an "IF IF" statement. Personally I do not buy into "doomsday" stuff; I didnt in 1984, I didnt in 2000, I didnt in 2001 and I certainly shall not in 2012.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  26. #25 Re: 2012 and stuff 
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    The only thing, to my mind that would have any effect is an intense gravitational pull as the equator region of the black hole, and that somehow the Earth was aligned with it.
    The gravitational pull does not depend on the activity of the Black Hole. It only depends on the mass that is inside the radius between us and the centre of the Milky Way. Additionally, the gravitational interaction is a radial force, not equatorial. Its effect is not bigger alongside the equator than any other direction. Again: there is no alignment.
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  27. #26 Re: 2012 and stuff 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    The only thing, to my mind that would have any effect is an intense gravitational pull as the equator region of the black hole, and that somehow the Earth was aligned with it.
    The gravitational pull does not depend on the activity of the Black Hole. It only depends on the mass that is inside the radius between us and the centre of the Milky Way. Additionally, the gravitational interaction is a radial force, not equatorial. Its effect is not bigger alongside the equator than any other direction. Again: there is no alignment.
    I was not relating the activity of the BH with its gravitational pull. As I said my comment was based purely on an "IF IF" scenario.
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  28. #27 2012 
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    Hello once again Mr.Dishmaster.I have another question,what is all this talk about planet x that i have heard about.Some one said it's a huge planet that will crosss threw are solar system possibly and If it did what exactly do you think would happen? :-D
    Robert Fox
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  29. #28 Re: 2012 
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    Quote Originally Posted by mysticmager1
    Hello once again Mr.Dishmaster.I have another question,what is all this talk about planet x that i have heard about.Some one said it's a huge planet that will crosss threw are solar system possibly and If it did what exactly do you think would happen? :-D
    I'm surprised an astrology "specialist" would need to ask such a question.
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  30. #29 2012 
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    I never cliamed in my profile nor in any post i have made to be an expert...I am a carpenter not an quote "astrologist",and i was asking a simple question no need to be a smart ass...
    Robert Fox
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  31. #30  
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    The infamous Planet X aka Nibiru is a myth and does not exist. As often, it is a mixture of ancient philosophical contemplation and religious/pseudoscientific delusions. There is not the slightest indication for its existence, nor is there any need to postulate such a planet.
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  32. #31 2012 and the possiblity of nibiru 
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    thank you very much for your time and answers Mr.Dishmaster .I have to admit all this talk was making me worry intensly about my family,and has given me
    the resolve to further my education in this field.

    P.S. I find this forum very intersting and hope that it's around for many years to come
    Robert Fox
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  33. #32 About the galaxy alignment 
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    Is there any p0ssibilities that the events in the m0vie 2012 may happen in the real situation?
    Imagination is more important than knowledge
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    denying 2012 end of the world predictions is rather ignorant when the facts are clearly there. On August of this year, NASA has announced a collapse of the earth's thermosphere. Now if you ask me, that's a pretty big deal since the thermosphere makes up a huge outer layer of the earth.
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  36. #35  
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael clint
    denying 2012 end of the world predictions is rather ignorant when the facts are clearly there. On August of this year, NASA has announced a collapse of the earth's thermosphere. Now if you ask me, that's a pretty big deal since the thermosphere makes up a huge outer layer of the earth.
    A density contraction of much less than 1% of the atmosphere by mass isn't something to worry about. What do you imagine might happen? Space junk staying around a few more years before their decaying orbit brings crashing to earth?
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  37. #36  
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    Quote Originally Posted by michael clint
    denying 2012 end of the world predictions is rather ignorant when the facts are clearly there. On August of this year, NASA has announced a collapse of the earth's thermosphere. Now if you ask me, that's a pretty big deal since the thermosphere makes up a huge outer layer of the earth.
    Before you open a big can of worms, please indicate:
    - the possible relationship to doomsday prophecies
    - its predicted development until 2012
    - the degree of depletion
    - the relevance to the Earth's climate
    - the significance with respect to possible previous similar incidents

    Here something else to worry about: Every year during the summer in the northern hemisphere, the ice shield around Antarctica increases tremendously. Isn't that worrying?
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  38. #37 Re: 2012 and stuff 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    The only thing, to my mind that would have any effect is an intense gravitational pull as the equator region of the black hole, and that somehow the Earth was aligned with it.
    Additionally, the gravitational interaction is a radial force, not equatorial. Its effect is not bigger alongside the equator than any other direction.
    why does all matter within the galaxy then form within this disk? ah Centrifugal force?
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  39. #38 Re: 2012 and stuff 
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    Quote Originally Posted by 432145
    Quote Originally Posted by Dishmaster
    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    The only thing, to my mind that would have any effect is an intense gravitational pull as the equator region of the black hole, and that somehow the Earth was aligned with it.
    Additionally, the gravitational interaction is a radial force, not equatorial. Its effect is not bigger alongside the equator than any other direction.
    why does all matter within the galaxy then form within this disk? ah Centrifugal force?
    The matter does not form within the disc. There are all kinds of galaxies, some of which are spherical or elliptical. The spiral disc shape is just one of many possibilities. As far as I understand, the disc shape is the result of the formation process, where material agglomerated and then flattened due to rotation. It's the same phenomenon how a flat pizza is made of a lump of dough.

    Stars are of course forming where the molecular clouds and the dust are concentrated. And this is the disc in disc galaxies and somewhere else in differently shaped galaxies (see e.g. Magellanic clouds).

    One more detail: even disc shaped spiral galaxies have a central ellipsoidal region, called the bulge.
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