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Thread: The Death of our univese?

  1. #1 The Death of our univese? 
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    I watched a Documentary about the end of the universe as we know it, and among the several outcomes one seemed to be the most horrific,


    The theory is if there is no Great crunch/freeze type thing our universe will simply 'die', the Stars will burn out, Black holes will eat untill they can eat no more and fall Dormant, the universe will slowly die and blacken untill all light that remains is the dim red glow from the last remaining red dwarfs, whatever races are still existing then will gather around as these final lights go out and the universe darkens forever


    I know if this were to happen it would be by step 3000 (where each step is measured in billion years and is the equilvalent of the previous steps combined, so step 1 is 1 billion, step 2 is 1 billion, step 3 is 2 billion, step 4 is 4 billion, step 5 is 8billion step 6 is 16billion, etc etc) but it's still quite disturbing don't you think?



    Opinions anyone?


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  3. #2  
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    These doomsday scenarios really model "what if" we remove a key agent, the strong anti-entropic force, namely: life.


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    Oh yes, the end of the universe has a way of depressing people....but there are other theories too.....The Big Rip where everything in the universe will be ripped apart by phantom energy forces......The Big Bounce where the universe will zoom back to the central point of origin and then spawn a NEW universe (good lord)....False vacuum wher the forces of gravity, space, time, and electromagnetism will all be severely altered resulting in instantaneous universal destruction...........does your heart good to know we can be decimated in so many ways doesnt it?

    I say that we all head for the fifth dimension before we are gobbled up by THIS universe!

    Head for the wormholes!!!!
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  5. #4  
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    No need to get yourself depressed over it, you'll probably be dead before it happens. :-D
    Eat Dolphin, save the Tuna!!!!
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  6. #5  
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    Yeah, let alone the solar system. The sun will have been evolved into a red giant burning everything including the Earth. So, unless mankind will have found a way to escape to other regions in space that would be the end for us anyway. If we survive that long.
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  7. #6 Re: The Death of our univese? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booms
    I watched a Documentary about the end of the universe as we know it, and among the several outcomes one seemed to be the most horrific,


    The theory is if there is no Great crunch/freeze type thing our universe will simply 'die', the Stars will burn out, Black holes will eat untill they can eat no more and fall Dormant, the universe will slowly die and blacken untill all light that remains is the dim red glow from the last remaining red dwarfs, whatever races are still existing then will gather around as these final lights go out and the universe darkens forever


    I know if this were to happen it would be by step 3000 (where each step is measured in billion years and is the equilvalent of the previous steps combined, so step 1 is 1 billion, step 2 is 1 billion, step 3 is 2 billion, step 4 is 4 billion, step 5 is 8billion step 6 is 16billion, etc etc) but it's still quite disturbing don't you think?



    Opinions anyone?
    You are being overly dramatic.
    The BBT is a religion, so it has a doomsday finish.

    Now to dispel that feeling, just dump the BBT and accept the current laws of physics. By that, I mean the Laws of Conservation of Matter, Energy, Momentum znd Charge.
    These Laws have more reality to them than this biblical/BBT that everyone seems to accept .

    The Conservation Laws say there is no beginning and therefore, there will be NO END.

    Cosmo
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    No need to get yourself depressed over it, you'll probably be dead before it happens.
    Thanks, man. You've totally boosted my happiness in becoming organic material for weeds in a good many years. :?

    The Conservation Laws say there is no beginning and therefore, there will be NO END.
    I realize that there's no way we can go back and experience the BB, but if it wasn't created how can it exist? Everything exists on the basis of creation right? From solid things like planes, books, plants, planets, suns, stars, to abstract things like ideas and emotion.......they were all created right?

    so, back to the BB....it's just been there.........forever..........and will never cease to exist?
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  9. #8 Re: The Death of our univese? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booms
    I watched a Documentary about the end of the universe as we know it, and among the several outcomes one seemed to be the most horrific,


    The theory is if there is no Great crunch/freeze type thing our universe will simply 'die', the Stars will burn out, Black holes will eat untill they can eat no more and fall Dormant, the universe will slowly die and blacken untill all light that remains is the dim red glow from the last remaining red dwarfs, whatever races are still existing then will gather around as these final lights go out and the universe darkens forever


    I know if this were to happen it would be by step 3000 (where each step is measured in billion years and is the equilvalent of the previous steps combined, so step 1 is 1 billion, step 2 is 1 billion, step 3 is 2 billion, step 4 is 4 billion, step 5 is 8billion step 6 is 16billion, etc etc) but it's still quite disturbing don't you think?



    Opinions anyone?
    Your universe will end at the moment that you close your eyes for the very last time - as will mine. (Relativity )
    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  10. #9 Re: The Death of our univese? 
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmo
    The BBT is a religion
    Quote Originally Posted by tritai
    but if it wasn't created how can it exist?
    Yup, that's the kernel of creation belief right there. It's a logical barrier set up by one Jesuit-trained Roman Catholic Priest (and later monsignor) whose "Cosmic Egg exploding at the moment of the creation" theory, as he called it, was renamed "Big Bang Theory" for popular digestion. If you can't see past the barrier, you just can't grasp what an inelegant kludge it is. Rather, BBT seems intriguing and meaningful.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tritai
    I realize that there's no way we can go back and experience the BB, but if it wasn't created how can it exist? Everything exists on the basis of creation right? From solid things like planes, books, plants, planets, suns, stars, to abstract things like ideas and emotion.......they were all created right?

    so, back to the BB....it's just been there.........forever..........and will never cease to exist?
    The first thing you have to understand is that the BBT is not a biological system. It is strictly a physical substance.
    So do not think it had to have a beginning like the lifeforms on our planet .

    However, even though it is a physical system, it does have components like the stars and photons that are created but do come to an end also.
    However, the universe itself is an everlasting structure that contains all the individual components to form the universe.

    The BBT is a product of the Slipher, Hubble and Humason observations that were interpreted as an expanding space.
    This had to be done because the Doppler Redshifts implied a repeat of the Geocentric Theory that was refuted.

    My article on the Expansion of the Light Waves refuted and replaces the 'expansion of space'. So as a result, it also refutes the BBT.

    NS
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    Since the BB idea is wrong and we probably live in a static universe, that suggests that there is a process of continuous creation that we do not presently know anything about, so no end to the universe.
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  13. #12  
    Forum Senior Booms's Avatar
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    wow veered completely onto a new subject here



    Ok the BBT is not a religion, A religion is a belief based upon something unproven, with nothing more than 'coz it is' to back up it's existance,

    BB has various nano-particles of evidence, such as Galaxies are moving, the Galaxies are moving, in relation to each other (as shown by red-shift) in such a way that indicates a centre point of origin, i.e the location of the big bang, there is a background radiation level that is constant throughout all tested universe and is consistant with nuclear explosions but has no percievable origin

    these and many more lead physicists to come up with some form of origin, the most likely being some form of primordial explosion, i,e the BBT
    It's not how many questions you ask, but the answers you get - Booms

    This is the Acadamy of Science! we don't need to 'prove' anything!
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  14. #13  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booms
    wow veered completely onto a new subject here



    Ok the BBT is not a religion, A religion is a belief based upon something unproven, with nothing more than 'coz it is' to back up it's existance,

    BB has various nano-particles of evidence, such as Galaxies are moving, the Galaxies are moving, in relation to each other (as shown by red-shift) in such a way that indicates a centre point of origin, i.e the location of the big bang, there is a background radiation level that is constant throughout all tested universe and is consistant with nuclear explosions but has no percievable origin

    these and many more lead physicists to come up with some form of origin, the most likely being some form of primordial explosion, i,e the BBT
    "Religion" is stretching it. BBT is a particular creation belief, articulating the creation belief. So it parallels creation religions, as these also depend on the creation belief. The belief, simply, is that existence must have an ultimate origin.

    BBT wouldn't be a metaphysical proposition if it didn't claim all existence including time and laws of physics.
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    The hand of time rested on the half-hour mark, and all along that old front line of the English there came a whistling and a crying. The men of the first wave climbed up the parapets, in tumult, darkness, and the presence of death, and having done with all pleasant things, advanced across No Man's Land to begin the Battle of the Somme. - Poet John Masefield.

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  16. #15  
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    Quote Originally Posted by tritai
    I realize that there's no way we can go back and experience the BB, but if it wasn't created how can it exist? Everything exists on the basis of creation right? From solid things like planes, books, plants, planets, suns, stars, to abstract things like ideas and emotion.......they were all created right?

    so, back to the BB....it's just been there.........forever..........and will never cease to exist?
    Who says everything exists on the basis of creation? Only the religious, and only because their need as human beings to believe the universe was created for them.

    If you're asking whether every state of matter has a previous state, then sure, but to call any one moment in that matter's existence it's moment of "creation" assumes that things don't become "things" until they're in a state that can serve us.

    Take a watch, for example. You could describe that watch as having been created by a watch maker, but really that moment of "creation" is just the moment a bunch of matter that had already existed for quite a while moved from its previous state into the state of being a "watch".


    Ask the atoms that make up that watch whether they think the watch maker created them.
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  17. #16  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booms
    wow veered completely onto a new subject here



    Ok the BBT is not a religion, A religion is a belief based upon something unproven, with nothing more than 'coz it is' to back up it's existance,

    BB has various nano-particles of evidence, such as Galaxies are moving, the Galaxies are moving, in relation to each other (as shown by red-shift) in such a way that indicates a centre point of origin, i.e the location of the big bang, there is a background radiation level that is constant throughout all tested universe and is consistant with nuclear explosions but has no percievable origin

    these and many more lead physicists to come up with some form of origin, the most likely being some form of primordial explosion, i,e the BBT
    The main component of the Universe is hydrogen and helium to a less erextent.

    Both of these gases are not explosive in themselves

    So what caused the explosion (BB)?

    Cosmo
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  18. #17  
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    Who says everything exists on the basis of creation? Only the religious, and only because their need as human beings to believe the universe was created for them.
    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound so much like a narcissist.

    It's just a bit difficult at first to grasp the idea of something always being there...with no true beginning, and no plausible end......it's mind-boggling to think that however infinitesimal I may be....I am a part of something that will exist for all eternity....(supposedly)
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  19. #18  
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    Quote Originally Posted by tritai
    Who says everything exists on the basis of creation? Only the religious, and only because their need as human beings to believe the universe was created for them.
    I'm sorry, I didn't mean to sound so much like a narcissist.

    It's just a bit difficult at first to grasp the idea of something always being there...with no true beginning, and no plausible end......it's mind-boggling to think that however infinitesimal I may be....I am a part of something that will exist for all eternity....(supposedly)
    Such honesty. :-D

    It's a very fundamental assumption one ...has, or hasn't. Either way it isn't religious in itself. But to prove the latter one must elaborate a barrier. This barrier soon grows fantastic in trying to make sense of itself, which it can't. So we shift the barrier. It used to be "Turtles, all the way down" and currently it's "The point of singularity, where rules of logic cease to operate."

    But back to "grasping". I'm unsure people can be made to grasp an eternal universe, or infinity in that sense. It's kinda a zen thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Booms
    wow veered completely onto a new subject here

    Ok the BBT is not a religion, A religion is a belief based upon something unproven, with nothing more than 'coz it is' to back up it's existance,

    BB has various nano-particles of evidence, such as Galaxies are moving, the Galaxies are moving, in relation to each other (as shown by red-shift) in such a way that indicates a centre point of origin, i.e the location of the big bang, there is a background radiation level that is constant throughout all tested universe and is consistant with nuclear explosions but has no percievable origin

    these and many more lead physicists to come up with some form of origin, the most likely being some form of primordial explosion, i,e the BBT
    Hardly a new subject since I am saying there may not be an end to the Universe.

    The cosmological redshift comes about because we live in a sea of gravity. Billions of trillions of stars as well as even more planets and other masses produce gravity. Our Sun's gravity does not suddenly blink out of existence somewhere past the Oort cloud. We know gravity redshifts photons. A neutron star within miles. A galaxy within thousands of light years. The whole Universe in millions/billions of light years.

    The blue/redshift cancellation only works close to large gravitational masses and not for the astronomical distances between them. As I pointed out elsewhere, this redshift is a measure of distance, not recessional velocity.

    Stars give off microwaves. Do they just vanish or do they permeate the whole Universe? Extreme distances show what looks like a solid mass, as with a morning mist where there is seemingly nothing close up.

    The BB idea is an inflation/expansion. Not an explosion as Fred Hoyle contemptuously made it appear.

    A problem for you. At a few seconds after the BB, matter appears and we have the entire Universe in the space of our solar system. Does the Universe collapse into a black hole or does it ignore all known rules of science and continue to expand?
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    Quote Originally Posted by leohopkins
    Interesting idea. It does point out the same old, same old about Type 1A supernovae. If they appear fainter because of distance, might that not be because we are viewing them through the haze of distance rather than suddenly accelerating faster away from us which is a nonsense idea? Some people seem to think that all the material, etc thrown out by tens of billions of trillions of stars for untold billions of years just vanishes. Duh!
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  22. #21  
    Forum Sophomore Tharghana's Avatar
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    Or the universe would end they use the LHC right? .
    www.periodicvideos.com - A Great Site

    "Well, good chemists shouldn't lick their fingers, anyways." - Martyn Poliakoff

    "You have lived to die, and your running out of life."

    "Once and a while, I go out of my way... to kill you... a little"
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    Such honesty.
    Is that sarcasm, by any chance?
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  24. #23  
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    Quote Originally Posted by tritai
    Such honesty.
    Is that sarcasm, by any chance?
    No. I just find those who don't "see it" typically react like housecats placed in front of mirrors. For some reason cats won't see through so they keep looking about obliviously, or they just want to get away from there. I'm surprised you willfully consider yourself in the infinite.
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyberia
    Since the BB idea is wrong and we probably live in a static universe, that suggests that there is a process of continuous creation that we do not presently know anything about, so no end to the universe.
    It seems you have accepted the idea of an expanding space just as Hoyle had done.

    The idea of an EoS that the BBT is based on is ludicrous .
    A vacuum expanding?
    Or Einsteins 'curvature of a vacuum?

    Cosmo
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