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Thread: tiny life on other planets

  1. #1 tiny life on other planets 
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    what's with people wanting to find life on other planets and i even wish if they were looking for live beings like us. No instead they're lookeing for tiny tiny creatures i mean what are the benifits of finding these creatures
    i know it's going to be a great achievement for man kind but then what ?
    some peaple told me that they are doing this in hope to fine an alternative planet for us to live on after earth vanishes
    is that true ?
    and if it was how are they going to create the right environment on a whole planet that is suitable for us to live in ? ( Eath is very unique )


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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    While it would be preferable/more interesting/of greater significance to find large, intelligent lifeforms, we know that is unlikely to happen within the bounds of the solar system. There are no Martians hiding in the bottom of the Olympus Mons caldera.

    So we are left looking for other lifeforms that might exist on Mars, or other bodies in the Solar System. At present all of our biological understanding is based upon a single kind of life. We believe that all life on Earth evolved from an original, single common ancestor.

    What were the chances that original ancestor would appear? Did it need to have the characteristics it did - twenty amino acids, DNA with four specific nucleotides, etc. How commonplace is life in the Universe?

    Questions like these can be answered, at least in part, by the discovery of any other lifeform that does not share our common ancestor. Also, keep in mind that microscopic lifeforms are more important to ecosystems than macro forms such as ourselves. There are more microbial cells in your body than there are your own cells.

    Edited to correct double negative, not unlikely.


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    <<<Darn, Ophiolite beat me as second post! Oh well !!>>>

    Have you heard of SETI ? We are looking for life like us, its just that given the complexities of social structures and our technology limits, this may be long in happening. In the mean time lets look for what life we can. If we find life it gives us good reason to believe that it is entirely possible for life to exist elsewhere in the Universe and in possibly more complex forms.

    The problems with SETI become more evident as our society's entertainment technologies progress. Back in the 60's it used to be thought that more advanced societies used more powerful transceivers than we had and that we could possibly tune in on an alien equivalent to "I Love Lucy"

    As it turns out, at least in our society, advances to technology switched from energy inefficient analog broadcasts to the higher energy efficiency and higher-resolutions made possible by digital signals, thus we have less "noise" leaving the atmosphere into space.

    On top of this laws were put in place to ensure maximum usage of the frequency ranges we use for broadcasting, further limiting the amount of noise leaving our atmosphere.

    It is very possible that advanced societies are using similar or more advanced technologies that send less signals away from their home planet, unless they are intentionally sending a message in our direction, and the probability factor goes even lower from here.

    If you think about it, the only signals we sent into space were during a very very short time frame in our history, about 90 yrs at the most. I believe the most powerful of which was A 100 kilowatt transmitter and antenna complex that was built at Zeesen, near Berlin in 1933 by the Nazis to transmit propaganda around the world. So, the first thing an alien might think of us is of a really racist and genocidal race.

    So basically, It is very unlikely we find intelligent life similar to us in the near future, and while that doesn't mean we stop trying we also should not divert attention from first finding microbial life as well.
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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  5. #4  
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    Finding microscopic life anywhere in the Universe other than Earth is a huge leap forward toward finding sentient life on the level of humanity elsewhere in the universe. One step at a time.
    "The trouble with the world is that the stupid are cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt" - Bertrand Russell
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    don't denigrate that tiny tiny life : the earth is only habitable for us humans thanks to that tiny tiny life

    so if anyone has the temerity to ask the question "what have bacteria ever done for us ?", the answer is "a lot"
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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    i don't think any of u knew what i meant
    i know that finding microscopic life is a huge step for science and it's going to benifit us in many ways...... but

    Earth provides the perfect enviroment for humans to live on and i don't think any other planet is as perfect as earth and if scientists now are thinking of moving people in the future to live on other planets
    i'm telling u it's not going to work !

    we lived on earth and we're going to die with it
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    I'm inclined to agree with you. The range of environments that humans could live in without taking protective measures that would make life intolerable is surely quite limited.

    Earth provides the perfect enviroment for humans to live on
    Earth actually provides many different environments that humans have managed to adapt to, but even on Earth it seems we are on a knife edge.

    Living at high elevations above sea level, for instance, we are cautioned never to go outside without wearing sunscreen, and wide brim hats and long sleeves are recommended. This is to avoid skin cancer which has a higher prevalence in high elevation communities. If a planet that seemed hospitable turned out to have just slightly higher levels of UV radiation it might be lethal to humans. There must be many other minor deviations from "Earth-norm" that would at first seem innocuous, but on examination prove to be deadly.

    What are the chances of finding a planet that meets all of our requirements within a very limited range of tolerance? Vanishingly small I'd guess.

    So I'm rooting for the bugs. If we find an organism, any organism, anywhere else in the Solar System it will be the biggest discovery in history.
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  9. #8  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motivation
    i don't think any of u knew what i meant
    Correct. you seemed to be questioning the value of finding microscopic life forms. thank you for clarifying your real meaning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Motivation
    Earth provides the perfect enviroment for humans to live on and i don't think any other planet is as perfect as earth
    As someone else (JaneBennet?) pointed out in another thread, perfect is an absolute. So your sentence doesn't make grammatical sense.
    Moreover, I would challenge your description of it as perfect. It is an environment to which we are - not surprisingly - well adapted. Depending upon the long range goals of humanity I can think of many improvements that could be made to it, therefore it is clearly not perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Motivation
    and if scientists now are thinking of moving people in the future to live on other planets i'm telling u it's not going to work !

    we lived on earth and we're going to die with it
    The motivation to search for other life forms has several sources: better understanding of our own origins, clarification of our place in the Universe, a desire to meet and greet aliens, a thirst for knowledge, etc. Only part of the motivation is to find other homes for mankind.

    On what basis do you tell us 'it is not going to work'. This is the second time I have observed you commit the logical fallacy of Argument from Incredulity. Just because you doubt it has absolutelt no bearing on its possibility. Do you have any substantial reasons, backed up by evidence, to support your claim?
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  10. #9  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motivation
    i don't think any of u knew what i meant
    i know that finding microscopic life is a huge step for science and it's going to benifit us in many ways...... but

    Earth provides the perfect enviroment for humans to live on and i don't think any other planet is as perfect as earth and if scientists now are thinking of moving people in the future to live on other planets
    i'm telling u it's not going to work !

    we lived on earth and we're going to die with it
    The Earth formed about 4.5 billion years ago, cooled and the first microscopic life has existed from that point 3.5 to 3.8 billion years ago.
    Anything resembling our current complex living forms started about 500 million years ago. Man and its ancestors have been around no more than three million years ago and whether from natural selection or some form of biological evolution, would never have existed here, as we know it, if those early forms were not around to change conditions on this planet.

    Finding any form of life on other objects in our solar system, is an effort to understand our existence, not necessarily to terraform and eventually give mankind a place to move, for whatever reason. Its fun to talk about, but so far from practical and were just to far from any practical means to achieve.

    Earths environment is still changing, just as it always has and the day may come when mankind will adapt or will die off, just as 99% of all species that have ever existed. BUT even with our simple intelligence and means to communicate our limits to survive, may allow our evolving into the changes, or preventing some catastrophic event.

    Opinion; I see no reason why mankind's existence should end on earth, if we continue to search for answers. Throwing in the towel and assuming some dismal scenario for all society seems a bit premature. In 10,000 or a hundred thousand years, what builds from our basic 500 years of science should provide all we need to see that our existence was not in vain...
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    how old r u guys anyway
    i like the way u give ur opinions u know very much ( god bless u )
    but i still say that motivation has its limits
    human can live on other planets but not as the meaning of leaving earth
    we will die on earth just like we were created on it.
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  12. #11  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    I am old and Jackson is ancient. :wink:
    While I fully expect to die on the Earth, like Jackson I would be surprised and hugely disappointed if we did not venture out into the Universe. If we are one of many intelligent lifeforms then such a step will be like moving from the nursery to lower school. If we are the only intelligent lifeform then it is our duty to spread life around the galaxy at least.
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  13. #12  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motivation
    how old r u guys anyway
    i like the way u give ur opinions u know very much ( god bless u )
    but i still say that motivation has its limits
    human can live on other planets but not as the meaning of leaving earth
    we will die on earth just like we were created on it.
    No, motivation is limited only by the society, people live in. Living, I assume, in Dubai is itself an good example. Your government is exploring new ideas, most countries cannot imagine much less practice.

    With todays technology, no we could not live on another object (planet or moon) primarily because of immunity to bacteria/virus/germs, which certainly our systems could never adapt to or develop medication. We have enough problems handling this issue, here on earth. Not to mention differentials with gravity (mass of the new object) which our body is set for earths mass. Again, we are having problems as folks weight too much, developing problems. There are others, but think you get the point.

    I can't, maybe won't, get into "were created on", since I believe we came into existence at the will of environmental conditions and evolved for the very same reasons. I have trouble when these conditions or the existence of mankind become an issue of other than a normal process, which I feel is prevalent in the universe.

    In short, expand your horizon, plan for a long life and know that NOTHING
    is impossible. As for my age, yes ancient would be correct to any generation starting, but its that experience, coming from what was to what is now, that gives me the hope for what could be...
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    We used to rate much of Canada "inhospitable and infertile wasteland". That wasteland now "feeds the world" with wheat, beef, canola oil.

    I tend to agree that humans won't be running around on other planets. Though if you loosen up the definition of "human" and create new kinds (like we did for new kinds of dry-land wheat) it is possible and certainly easier than making a whole planet come to us so to speak. Dogs can live in apartments and even ladies' handbags - the trick is to adapt the dog not the environment. People may exist in one form or another.

    My interest in extraterrestrial life aims most specifically at a krill fishery in one of Jupiter's water-moons. If we find life, we can replace it with our own. Cod or squid would be cute but I'm not so ambitious. I would like to have vacuum-frozen animal protein delivered in serious volume to Earth orbit, and dropped either as fertilizer or eaten as dietary supplement, since our terrestrial krill can sustainably feed just a few billions.

    The future costs of hauling fertilizer from our ocean's depths and trucking and dispersing that on inland farms is perhaps greater than the cost of delivering this same product from space. Some day it may simply be more economical.

    My core motive here is to enable greater billions of human population. A worthy cause don't you agree?
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    Pong; I agree, this planet is far from over anything, population to managing resources. Also Canada is a good example for what can happen with just a little ingenuity and MOTIVATION. Africa, South America, Australia and most of Asia are just beginning to understand, their importance in the mix and will soon make their case...I sincerely believe.

    As for human, there is an element in emotion, I hope we never lose. Mr. Spock, was an interesting character, but what makes us what we are is the emotion that drives us. Good or bad, right or wrong will have to develop, but to lose emotion would make all things important in our lives of no importance. Think this important...
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  16. #15  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    If we find life, we can replace it with our own. Cod or squid would be cute but I'm not so ambitious.
    Bad idea. The goal should be maximum biodiversity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    If we find life, we can replace it with our own. Cod or squid would be cute but I'm not so ambitious.
    Bad idea. The goal should be maximum biodiversity.
    "Ambition" there means "optimism". I think we'd be very lucky to accomplish life higher than hardy little crustaceans. Of course we want a robust food chain beneath that, as rich as possible, 'cause the system's tougher that way.
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    So you are proposing that man's first action upon encountering a biosphere other than the Earth is to replace the extant lifeforms with our own. Excuse me if I characterise that as dangerous, fascist, terracentric nonsense.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    I am old and Jackson is ancient. :wink:
    While I fully expect to die on the Earth, like Jackson I would be surprised and hugely disappointed if we did not venture out into the Universe. If we are one of many intelligent lifeforms then such a step will be like moving from the nursery to lower school. If we are the only intelligent lifeform then it is our duty to spread life around the galaxy at least.
    i don't know what's the point of spreading life around the galaxy
    why torturing ourselves of trying to make other plantes look like earth we know that's not going to happen and if if if if it did we wouldn't last for a long time. we will die very fast
    Earth is heaven and thanks to god we don't live on other than it
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    Forum Masters Degree SuperNatendo's Avatar
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    What makes you so sure it will never happen?

    Not in our lifetimes possibly, but generations from now these may be a possiblity.
    "It's no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense." - Mark Twain
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    If I may throw a penny and run, instead of looking for intelligent life on other worlds, we should look for intelligent life on this world first.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    you've stolen that from Monty Python's "meaning of life" !

    "And pray that there's intelligent life somewhere up in space
    Because there's bugger all down here on earth."
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  23. #22  
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    I came up with that myself 'll have you know :-D.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motivation
    i don't know what's the point of spreading life around the galaxy why torturing ourselves of trying to make other plantes look like earth we know that's not going to happen and if if if if it did we wouldn't last for a long time. we will die very fast
    Earth is heaven and thanks to god we don't live on other than it
    Since this site does pretend a science format and I am basically just curious, which GOD, has limited life to Earth. If any god created all life, wouldn't that include life on other than earth. Then if there are habitable places, in this Galaxy or the Universe, intelligence or not life in some state of development, wouldn't 'spreading the word', take on additional meaning. How about the other side of the issue; Last time I checked their were 2,762 different interpretation of about 15 major religions on this planet, which since mankind has existed have fought each other for dominance over the others. If this is in fact, the goal and object of any creator, I have no use for the idea and the Universe would be better off with out such nonsense.

    I have spent time on you, feeling your location on this planet, probable youth, possibly Muslim and possible interest in Science, could be of interest. You have let me down...

    One more thing; What would be WRONG, if mankind could make other objects habitable, your insinuation??? Be a little careful in judging motivation of Science or the results. 6.6 billion people, live better today than the one billion or less that lived in any period before on this planet (Heaven?) because of science...
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  25. #24  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Motivation
    i don't know what's the point of spreading life around the galaxy
    Wel I don't know what the purpose of Life, The Universe and Everything is. But, as an optimist, I like to think that life - in general - is a good thing. Abundant life is an even better thing. Abundant, diverse life in a broad range of environments and locations, on a multitude of planets, satellites and space habitats, is a gloriously wonderful thing.
    Who can bring about the latter? E.coli, fungi, speckled woodpeckers? I rather doubt it. At present only man has the clear potential to populate the galaxy, not only with his own kind, but with flora and fauna not yet imagined. Since we can do this and since it is, I believe, a good thing, then it becomes - as I stated in my previous post - our duty to do it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Motivation
    why torturing ourselves of trying to make other plantes look like earth
    Why do you think that accepting a huge challenge, then working to implement it, is the same as torture? I don't understand your thinking here at all. Humans are at their best when they overcome adversity. Here we are talking about overcoming a self-imposed adversity, with a noble goal. That is not torture.
    Quote Originally Posted by Motivation
    we know that's not going to happen and if if if if it did we wouldn't last for a long time. we will die very fast
    What makes you think this is not going to happen? (Supernatendo already asked the same question.) And why do you think it wouldn't last. Again you are arguing from a personal incredulity. Your inability to see the opportunities or to imagine the possibilities does not stop these opportunities and possibilities from being real.
    And what makes you think we shall die very fast? Do you mean individually we shall only live for a few decades? So what. Our present achievements (good and bad) have been reached over thousands of years by the efforts of people, all of whom died very fast.
    Quote Originally Posted by Motivation
    Earth is heaven and thanks to god we don't live on other than it
    If Earth is heaven and this is the only place we are meant to live, why did God create the rest of the Universe and give us the means of reaching it?

    Edited several really sloppy typographical errors.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    If Earth is heaven and this is the only place we are meant to live, why did God create the rest of the Universe and give us the means of reaching it?
    u know what, it's a good thing exploring outer space and ur right god did creat this universe for us to reach whats inside it and gain knowledge, well i changed my mind ur right human is able to do grat things and nothing is impossible and we may live on other planets one day.

    Wel I don't know what the purpose of Life

    u want to know what's the purpose of life that's a whole other subject and i would really like to tell u just start a topic with that title and tell me in which section and i'll be happy to answer
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    Brr, all we have to do is create warp drive, and then the vulcans come. Then we found intelligent life. It's that easy

    Now serious... Are we the first? And if we aren't. Where are they? Is the universe that big that they can't see us? or aren't we significant? Or they are here but invisible or phased.



    Philosophy is something great.
    Growing up, i marveled at star-trek's science, and ignored the perfect society. Now, i try to ignore their science, and marvel at the society.

    Imagine, being able to create matter out of thin air, and not coming up with using drones for boarding hostile ships. Or using drones to defend your own ship. Heck, using drones to block energy attacks, counterattack or for surveillance. Unless, of course, they are nano-machines in your blood, which is a billion times more complex..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    Brr, all we have to do is create warp drive, and then the vulcans come. Then we found intelligent life. It's that easy

    Now serious... Are we the first? And if we aren't. Where are they? Is the universe that big that they can't see us? or aren't we significant? Or they are here but invisible or phased.



    Philosophy is something great.
    ofcourse the universe is very big more than u can imagine
    we may never find them
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  29. #28  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    If we find life, we can replace it with our own. Cod or squid would be cute but I'm not so ambitious.
    Bad idea. The goal should be maximum biodiversity.
    "Ambition" there means "optimism". I think we'd be very lucky to accomplish life higher than hardy little crustaceans. Of course we want a robust food chain beneath that, as rich as possible, 'cause the system's tougher that way.
    So you are proposing that man's first action upon encountering a biosphere other than the Earth is to replace the extant lifeforms with our own. Excuse me if I characterise that as dangerous, fascist, terracentric nonsense.
    Err, this "dangerous, fascist, terracentric nonsense" is what puts meat on your table dude. You know that farms do not just sprout naturally from biodiverse landscape? Ever wonder why there are so few animals in the British Isles?

    You've got a lot of nerve saying that, when there are people hungry in this world, and more to come... many many more. So long as you'll pay for cookies we won't hesitate to clear land for your wheat and sugar even to the last tree. And if you push international law to preserve biodiversity while local folks have no employment, we must fight or die. Think about the economic reality.

    Do you really value extraterrestrial life more than human beings?

    Of course we can study what we find before inoculating an ecosystem. Hopefully we can keep a refuge alive. Nobody likes to wipe out life.

    I want to take the pressure off Earth. Farming other planets is not about exotic delicacies or feeding colonists, it's about exploiting there so we needn't exploit here. Gosh, a European should understand that. It has to happen somewhere. And I guess we're both sick of watching crop monocultures spread across this planet, at the expense of virgin wilderness. So which biodiversity do you value more - terrestrial or extraterrestrial?
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  30. #29  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Do you really value extraterrestrial life more than human beings?
    Yes.
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  31. #30  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Do you really value extraterrestrial life more than human beings?
    Yes.
    Moonhugger. :P
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  32. #31  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zwolver
    Brr, all we have to do is create warp drive, and then the vulcans come. Then we found intelligent life. It's that easy

    Now serious... Are we the first? And if we aren't. Where are they? Is the universe that big that they can't see us? or aren't we significant? Or they are here but invisible or phased.



    Philosophy is something great.
    I've never had the pleasure of meeting you Zwolver, it seems you left here about half a year before I joined. Its nice to meet you, your total posts kind of got my attention, being that I've never seen you before. I go by this philosiphy: What prefect futuristic civilisation would want to visit a bunch of barbaric wanderers hell bent on spreading across their planet like a virus and consume as much as they posssibly can, killing each other to get that in the process. I'd be a little favoured to believe that these people (humans) would not be open to being alike us (aliens). I'd actually think they'd kill us and steal our technology the second we stepped off the ship, that or harm us for whatever reason. Sounds a prefectly logical hypothesis to make the aliens come nowhere near Earth.
    "If you wish to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first invent the universe". - Carl Sagan
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    i would think that they would want to find tiny life because its where we evolved from. so in a million years or so there may be real animals or maybe even inteligent beings like humans
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    so in a million years or so there may be real animals or maybe even inteligent beings like humans
    Who said humans are intelligent? Compared to monkeys... hm, maybe.
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    Intelligent is a relative word. To suggest humans are or are not "intelligent" is like suggesting that there's some absolute standard by which it could be measured.

    Relatively speaking, we're more intelligent than a dog, so I don't see it as "racist" to be comfortable seeing a dog die to save a human. There may be life in the universe that's more intelligent than us. In which case, I suppose we become the animals.

    On the other hand, we may be augmenting our own brains soon. Then intelligence would no longer be a fundamental genetic trait anyway.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    If we find life, we can replace it with our own. Cod or squid would be cute but I'm not so ambitious.
    Bad idea. The goal should be maximum biodiversity.
    "Ambition" there means "optimism". I think we'd be very lucky to accomplish life higher than hardy little crustaceans. Of course we want a robust food chain beneath that, as rich as possible, 'cause the system's tougher that way.
    So you are proposing that man's first action upon encountering a biosphere other than the Earth is to replace the extant lifeforms with our own. Excuse me if I characterise that as dangerous, fascist, terracentric nonsense.
    Err, this "dangerous, fascist, terracentric nonsense" is what puts meat on your table dude. You know that farms do not just sprout naturally from biodiverse landscape? Ever wonder why there are so few animals in the British Isles?

    You've got a lot of nerve saying that, when there are people hungry in this world, and more to come... many many more. So long as you'll pay for cookies we won't hesitate to clear land for your wheat and sugar even to the last tree. And if you push international law to preserve biodiversity while local folks have no employment, we must fight or die. Think about the economic reality.

    Do you really value extraterrestrial life more than human beings?

    Of course we can study what we find before inoculating an ecosystem. Hopefully we can keep a refuge alive. Nobody likes to wipe out life.

    I want to take the pressure off Earth. Farming other planets is not about exotic delicacies or feeding colonists, it's about exploiting there so we needn't exploit here. Gosh, a European should understand that. It has to happen somewhere. And I guess we're both sick of watching crop monocultures spread across this planet, at the expense of virgin wilderness. So which biodiversity do you value more - terrestrial or extraterrestrial?
    And here I thought you disagreed with me on overpopulation.

    The question isn't how many people should be able to live on Earth. It's how many at one time. There can be infinity humans as long as they take turns, and don't try to all get born in the same few years.

    I actually do worry about us colonizing space just for the simple reason that people will get those baby factories going again, and since population growth is exponential (In the same way as compounded interest on a loan), but planetary expansion is linear, it should be obvious which thing will quickly eclipse the other if they both start a race with each other.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ophiolite
    Quote Originally Posted by Pong
    Do you really value extraterrestrial life more than human beings?
    Yes.
    You don't see intelligence as a differentiating trait?

    Suppose you meet an artificially intelligent machine that has attained full human-like sentience. Would its lack of a genome make it less of a person to you?
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  36. #35  
    Time Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by kojax
    And here I thought you disagreed with me on overpopulation...
    I do. Because I want us to keep stretching the envelope, like our lives depend on it. Humanity mustn't turn on itself. So we keep expanding, man vs. nature.

    I'm pretty sure from what you've said here and elsewhere that you'd settle for cozy utopia here on Earth. In my view, utopia is stasis... death. I know that's butting heads with conservationists too.



    I don't really disagree with Ophiolite as much as it seems, 'cause in practice we'd reach the same ends anyhow. He wants diversity. And I know we can't really monoculture the Milky Way, though I think it natural we try. :wink: Colonies always rebel. Life diverges. Getting off the planet is just another step in losing our species to the rush of evolution.
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  37. #36  
    Time Lord
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    8,035
    It's not stagnation. Solving the food problem gives us available resources to pursue better things than just our own survival. We wouldn't be sitting on our couches all day if we stopped overpopulation.

    We'd be building stuff, taking on new, more interesting challenges.

    All solving overpopulation does is guarantee that the next time someone like Albert Einstein gets born, it won't be in some third world country where he's got to work all day from the time he can stand on 2 feet, and never get an education.
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