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Thread: why tonal language spoken countries are not the best in musics?

  1. #1 why tonal language spoken countries are not the best in musics? 
    Forum Freshman unknown_artist's Avatar
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    Greetings.

    I am wondering only
    why tonal language spoken countries (e.g. china,indonesia..etc) are not the best countries in musics ?

    Regards


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  3. #2  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    In Who's opinion are they not good at music? Who's interpretarion of music?


    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    Greetings.

    I am wondering only
    why tonal language spoken countries (e.g. china,indonesia..etc) are not the best countries in musics ?

    Regards
    Not sure why they should be. All languages use pitch to some extent. For example, in English the pitch rises at the end of a sentence to indicate a question (or that the speaker is under 35!)
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  5. #4  
    Forum Freshman unknown_artist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    In Who's opinion are they not good at music? Who's interpretarion of music?
    sorry,while I did not imply that they were not "good" ,I clearly predicted that they were not the best ones (yes ,it is my own prediction)

    but if you claim that this is incorrect,could you prove it?
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  6. #5  
    Forum Freshman unknown_artist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    Greetings.

    I am wondering only
    why tonal language spoken countries (e.g. china,indonesia..etc) are not the best countries in musics ?

    Regards
    Not sure why they should be. All languages use pitch to some extent. For example, in English the pitch rises at the end of a sentence to indicate a question (or that the speaker is under 35!)
    as I know the tone is very important in music but more generally it is told by "ear ability". I thought that those people's "ear ability" would be stronger ..
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  7. #6  
    Time Lord Paleoichneum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    In Who's opinion are they not good at music? Who's interpretarion of music?
    sorry,while I did not imply that they were not "good" ,I clearly predicted that they were not the best ones (yes ,it is my own prediction)

    but if you claim that this is incorrect,could you prove it?
    WHO's "best"? My "best"? Your "best"? Mariah Carry's "Best'?

    Best is NOT an empirical measure in any form, so your assertion is not validatable, but pure individual opinion.
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
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  8. #7  
    Forum Freshman unknown_artist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Paleoichneum View Post
    In Who's opinion are they not good at music? Who's interpretarion of music?
    sorry,while I did not imply that they were not "good" ,I clearly predicted that they were not the best ones (yes ,it is my own prediction)

    but if you claim that this is incorrect,could you prove it?
    WHO's "best"? My "best"? Your "best"? Mariah Carry's "Best'?

    Best is NOT an empirical measure in any form, so your assertion is not validatable, but pure individual opinion.
    that is right.

    but how to make an empirical measurement in musics?
    do you know/have any method?
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  9. #8  
    Forum Freshman unknown_artist's Avatar
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    - I only pay attention to popularity as a tool for measurement-
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  10. #9  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    as I know the tone is very important in music but more generally it is told by "ear ability". I thought that those people's "ear ability" would be stronger ..
    But European languages use "tone" (pitch) as well. I don't think there is a language that doesn't.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  11. #10  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    - I only pay attention to popularity as a tool for measurement-
    That is not a very good measure. Popular with who? And how do you measure popularity?

    You might look at the number of people who can play an instrument (but that could be distorted by social factors). Or maybe the proportion of people who have perfect pitch.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  12. #11  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    Greetings.

    I am wondering only
    why tonal language spoken countries (e.g. china,indonesia..etc) are not the best countries in musics ?
    Indonesian is not a tonal language.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  13. #12  
    Forum Freshman unknown_artist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    Greetings.

    I am wondering only
    why tonal language spoken countries (e.g. china,indonesia..etc) are not the best countries in musics ?
    Indonesian is not a tonal language.
    is this reference a proof that it was a tonal language?


    *** Vincent J. van Heuven & Ellen van ZantenLeiden University Centre for Linguistics , Prosody in Indonesian Languages ,ISBN-13: 978-90-78328-44-5


    furthermore,I had had several indonesian friends in the past and the tone were being highly affected when they were speaking.
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  14. #13  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    is this reference a proof that it was a tonal language?
    "Indonesian is not a kind of tonal language like Chinese, Thai, or Vietnamese.[7]"
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indonesian_language

    "non-tonal"
    https://www.ethnologue.com/language/ind


    *** Vincent J. van Heuven & Ellen van ZantenLeiden University Centre for Linguistics , Prosody in Indonesian Languages ,ISBN-13: 978-90-78328-44-5
    As I said, all languages use pitch (and rhythm). Not all languages are tonal.

    That publication suggests that some dialects of Indonesian may be tonal (perhaps picked up from nearby tonal languages?)
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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  15. #14  
    Forum Freshman unknown_artist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    - I only pay attention to popularity as a tool for measurement-
    That is not a very good measure. Popular with who? And how do you measure popularity?

    You might look at the number of people who can play an instrument (but that could be distorted by social factors). Or maybe the proportion of people who have perfect pitch.
    well , the way you provided might really be one of actual ways to measure. no problem to include ability in musics ,it is already the centre of our discussion. but as you said it does NOT provide real results (or I think so. it is unclear parameter or it might be enclosed reality)

    the popularity that I mention here is very very simple. just look the number of any remarked musics' listening ratio on you tube.

    like this. (this is a popular one)
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60ItHLz5WEA
    Last edited by unknown_artist; November 7th, 2018 at 09:16 AM.
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  16. #15  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unknown_artist View Post
    the popularity that I mention here is very very simple. just look the number of the any remarked musics' listening ratio on you tube.
    Sales and downloads might be a better measure. But this is complicated by many factors. For example, China has a large domestic market (although I don't know how easily available sales figures are) but I doubt they are very popular with non-Chinese speaking people. Indonesia has a population larger than the US, but American music sells more around the world partly because it is in English.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
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