Notices
Results 1 to 29 of 29
Like Tree14Likes
  • 4 Post By adelady
  • 1 Post By Strange
  • 1 Post By adelady
  • 1 Post By seagypsy
  • 2 Post By Ascended
  • 1 Post By billvon
  • 1 Post By adelady
  • 1 Post By adelady
  • 1 Post By seagypsy
  • 1 Post By Dywyddyr

Thread: I'm Not a Stalker

  1. #1 I'm Not a Stalker 
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Nashville
    Posts
    317
    Moderator note.

    This text is pretty confronting for some people - see post #2.

    So now you can't read it unless you highlight it.

    If you want to, start here ...

    I saw you on the street
    And followed you in here
    Let me buy you some lunch
    Let me buy you a beer

    You cast your spell on me
    You've got me hypnotized
    I get those butterflies
    Looking into your eyes

    I'm Not A Stalker, baby
    I'm a gawker
    And right now
    I'm gawking at you

    I'm Not A Stalker, honey
    Don't be a squawker
    Don't be afraid
    I couldn't hurt you

    You got that hair falling down
    You got those kissable lips
    Got those suntan legs
    Got those shapely hips

    Like that old Elvis song
    I'll be your teddy bear
    Just cuddle me real tight
    And lead me anywhere

    I'm Not A Stalker, baby
    I'm a gawker
    And right now
    I'm gawking at you
    I'm Not A Stalker, honey
    Don't be a squawker
    Don't be afraid
    I couldn't hurt you

    Us men are gawkers by birth
    And you're the best looking
    Girl I've seen on this earth

    solo

    I'm Not A Stalker, baby
    I'm a gawker
    And right now
    I'm gawking at you
    I'm Not A Stalker, honey
    Don't be a squawker
    Don't be afraid
    I couldn't hurt you


    Jim Colyer ascap


    Last edited by adelady; November 20th, 2013 at 06:44 AM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    MODERATOR COMMENT

    Jim,

    You know very well that there are many women and girl members on this forum and heaven alone knows how many women and girls visit without registering as members.

    This song is extremely creepy, in fact it's quite threatening, to many women who've experienced sexual assault and/or stalking - nearly a quarter of us. (More than that if you add in those who've been physically assaulted without sexual assault.)

    More importantly almost every woman and girl who reads this so-called lyric has been "gawked at", pestered or followed on the street or on public transport or at work or at the beach/ park/ shopping centre by men who use exactly the words you are using here. Many of whom shout at us or threaten us if we try to ignore them or get away from them.

    I'd appreciate it if you voluntarily remove the post. If you don't, I will.

    EDIT: Do you have any idea - any idea at all - just how threatening it is to a girl or a woman to say those first two lines aloud?

    I saw you on the street
    And followed you in here

    This is terrifying. And to think that your already scared victim would appreciate you looking into their eyes - indicates a severe lack of sympathy, let alone empathy, for the plight of harassed women.

    Whether you realise it or not, this is a stalker's manifesto.


    shlunka, Tranquille, wegs and 1 others like this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Cooking Something Good MacGyver1968's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    2,051
    All it needs is a line about "It puts the lotion on it's skin or it gets the hose again"

    or "I'm wearing your face as a mask"

    Fixin' shit that ain't broke.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Brassica oleracea Strange's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    喫茶店
    Posts
    16,670
    To the tune of (the equally creepy) "Every step you take"?
    adelady likes this.
    Without wishing to overstate my case, everything in the observable universe definitely has its origins in Northamptonshire -- Alan Moore
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,006
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    MODERATOR COMMENT

    Jim,

    You know very well that there are many women and girl members on this forum and heaven alone knows how many women and girls visit without registering as members.

    This song is extremely creepy, in fact it's quite threatening, to many women who've experienced sexual assault and/or stalking - nearly a quarter of us. (More than that if you add in those who've been physically assaulted without sexual assault.)

    More importantly almost every woman and girl who reads this so-called lyric has been "gawked at", pestered or followed on the street or on public transport or at work or at the beach/ park/ shopping centre by men who use exactly the words you are using here. Many of whom shout at us or threaten us if we try to ignore them or get away from them.

    I'd appreciate it if you voluntarily remove the post. If you don't, I will.

    EDIT: Do you have any idea - any idea at all - just how threatening it is to a girl or a woman to say those first two lines aloud?

    I saw you on the street
    And followed you in here

    This is terrifying. And to think that your already scared victim would appreciate you looking into their eyes - indicates a severe lack of sympathy, let alone empathy, for the plight of harassed women.

    Whether you realise it or not, this is a stalker's manifesto.
    then why are you leaving it up? edit -- I reread, my apologies. I see you're requesting he remove it. Sorry. And I agree. While I'm not a fan of censorship, this falls into a different bracket, one of protecting people on this site if necessary. Thanks for looking out for us, adelady.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    then why are you leaving it up?
    Two reasons.

    1. Some people might actually want to discuss a social issue that doesn't often come up here.

    2. I've given Jim the option of taking the post down himself (though I've deleted the link in his signature). He's not visited the site since I sent him the message.

    Ha! I've just had an idea. I'll edit it so the text is not visible unless you highlight it.
    DogLady likes this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    ...matter and pixie dust wegs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Posts
    2,006
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    then why are you leaving it up?
    Two reasons.

    1. Some people might actually want to discuss a social issue that doesn't often come up here.

    2. I've given Jim the option of taking the post down himself (though I've deleted the link in his signature). He's not visited the site since I sent him the message.

    Ha! I've just had an idea. I'll edit it so the text is not visible unless you highlight it.
    Yes, agree on both points, I reread it, and noticed you give him the option of removing it. Your efforts here as a mod are mucho appreciated!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,103
    I've been that victim before myself but I don't tend to react or feel the way adalady is supposing we all may. I'm not saying that my non-reaction is typical or the only type any woman would have. But I can see why coyler would not have automatically made the connection to how women who have been victims may feel about the song. after all, songs like "every breath you take" by the police is often received as romantic. Another song by darren hayes, "creepin up on you" is another stalker song. And there has been no outcry of creepiness against him. I personally like both songs. I'm sure there are lots of stalker songs out there that people sing along to absentmindedly and never think about the meanings of the lyrics. Often it isn't until people actually read the lyrics to a song that they find out what it is actually about and by then the tune is already engrained in their head that they can't bother to be offended by the words.
    THE POLICE LYRICS - Every Breath You Take
    creeping up on you lyrics

    Another note to mention. We are quick to remind people that women get stalked. But men get stalked as often as women do, but have fewer protections from it. When they call the police they get laughed at.

    A stalker song sang by a woman (Blondie specifically)

    One way or another lyrics
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,540
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Another note to mention. We are quick to remind people that women get stalked. But men get stalked as often as women do, but have fewer protections from it. When they call the police they get laughed at.
    Hmm, given that one song you gave lyrics for was Darren Hayes that could be taken as a stalking a man.
    And White Flag by Dido, despite the fact that I love it, always makes me shudder when I listen to the words...
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,103
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Another note to mention. We are quick to remind people that women get stalked. But men get stalked as often as women do, but have fewer protections from it. When they call the police they get laughed at.
    Hmm, given that one song you gave lyrics for was Darren Hayes that could be taken as a stalking a man.
    And White Flag by Dido, despite the fact that I love it, always makes me shudder when I listen to the words...
    You are probably right, since that song was recorded after DH came out about his sexual orientation.

    Melissa Ethridge is apparently a stalker too, with her song "I want to come over" That can be assumed to be one woman stalking another woman who is already in a relationship.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    after all, songs like "every breath you take" by the police is often received as romantic. Another song by darren hayes, "creepin up on you" is another stalker song. And there has been no outcry of creepiness against him.
    The fact that people ignore creepy behaviour, or even encourage it, doesn't mean it's not creepy. Strikes me as just like lots of "romantic" gestures in many old movies and in mindless recent ones.

    Doesn't alter the fact that the behaviour in question is desperately threatening when it happens to you. When someone follows you into a cafe, or a lift, or the water at a pool or the beach, or from a bus stop you're looking around for somewhere to run or someone who might be useful as a distraction. (Or even worse, the same person turns up - again - in those places, magically at the same time you do.)

    A film like Single White Female gives a much better impression of the feelings this kind of creepy behaviour evokes in most people. Unlike all those classic 40s/50s/60s "romantic" scenes where we're supposed to think it's won.der.ful when a masterful man roughly grabs a reluctant woman who instantly realises she was wrong and this really is the man of her dreams and promptly, enthusiastically, melts in his arms. Or a man in a bar or a cafe nags and nags at a woman until she has a drink/ a meal/ a conversation with him. The fact that this unrealistic behaviour is also inherently objectionable is supposed to be OK really because the films are really good - when it actually promotes very unhealthy attitudes and potentially violent behaviours.

    We should correctly name such behaviour when we see it. And we should certainly discourage it in real life. I'd be horrified if I found out that anyone I knew was behaving like this or who was approving or encouraging this behaviour/attitude in someone else.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,103
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    after all, songs like "every breath you take" by the police is often received as romantic. Another song by darren hayes, "creepin up on you" is another stalker song. And there has been no outcry of creepiness against him.
    The fact that people ignore creepy behaviour, or even encourage it, doesn't mean it's not creepy. Strikes me as just like lots of "romantic" gestures in many old movies and in mindless recent ones.

    Doesn't alter the fact that the behaviour in question is desperately threatening when it happens to you. When someone follows you into a cafe, or a lift, or the water at a pool or the beach, or from a bus stop you're looking around for somewhere to run or someone who might be useful as a distraction. (Or even worse, the same person turns up - again - in those places, magically at the same time you do.)

    A film like Single White Female gives a much better impression of the feelings this kind of creepy behaviour evokes in most people. Unlike all those classic 40s/50s/60s "romantic" scenes where we're supposed to think it's won.der.ful when a masterful man roughly grabs a reluctant woman who instantly realises she was wrong and this really is the man of her dreams and promptly, enthusiastically, melts in his arms. Or a man in a bar or a cafe nags and nags at a woman until she has a drink/ a meal/ a conversation with him. The fact that this unrealistic behaviour is also inherently objectionable is supposed to be OK really because the films are really good - when it actually promotes very unhealthy attitudes and potentially violent behaviours.

    We should correctly name such behaviour when we see it. And we should certainly discourage it in real life. I'd be horrified if I found out that anyone I knew was behaving like this or who was approving or encouraging this behaviour/attitude in someone else.
    I understand what you are saying. I was just expressing why I could see why he wouldn't automatically think of that. Our society does send mixed messages about these sorts of things. It's even in cartoons. I remember a cartoon called "Hey Arnold" where this girl was obsessed with the main character, Arnold, and she followed him around, teased him and bullied him, but had a shrine built to him in her room. Stalking behavior is very common in humans when they have an object of affection. Whether or not it is seen as creepy is usually in the eyes of the one being stalked. If a person likes the one stalking them, they are rarely creeped out by the behavior and often even intrigued and encouraged by it.

    For instance my daughter has a crush on a guy at school and she would often follow him at a distance and watch him and stuff. When he found out about her crush he started doing the same things back to her. They would catch each other doing it and both enjoyed the play. Now they are friends.

    I think it is pretty common that we inadvertantly stalk those we like but don't always know how to approach them directly. How it is perceived is really in the mind of the object of affection. In terms of songs, unless they are saying that they are collecting your stray hairs and creating a mannequin of you, I don't tend to see the creepy in it so much. Ok the darren hayes song is pretty creepy, but it is typical teenage girl behavior in my opinion. I don't know how many times I'd see girls in middle school sip from a soda can left behind by their crush. I thought they were screwed in the head but it happened often enough that it must not be that abnormal.

    For the most part, I see what is interpreted as stalking, as being normal behavior for someone who has a crush and feels a little unsure of themselves when it comes to the direct approach.

    Kind of reminds me of the old pick up line, "Do you come here often?"... that in itself is an indicator that the person asking will increase frequency of visits to that location if the answer is "yes". And that could be construed as stalking.
    Ninja Pancakes likes this.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Masters Degree Tranquille's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Solar System
    Posts
    733
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    I understand what you are saying. I was just expressing why I could see why he wouldn't automatically think of that. Our society does send mixed messages about these sorts of things.

    I think the "Don't be a squawker, Don't be afraid" line kind of says it all really.

    It reminds me of the "My Video for Briona" nightmare. I still can't hear the words "hey baby girl" without wanting to scrub my skin with and a metal brush.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    3,411
    I think reading some of the comments there is possibly 2 kinds of stalking going on here. The first kind is perhaps the kind of confidence lacking born of insecurity stalking of which examples can be seen in many old films of both men and women mooning over each other perhaps following the other around but to shy to approach the object of their affections, this though portrayed in a romantic manner would certainly be less acceptable amongst adults today. But this type of behavior it seems is still being repeated by children and teens inexperienced at relationships that are having crushs on each other, this doesn't seem particularly threatening or socially unacceptable for children behaving this way.

    The second type of stalking being discussed here seems something altogether more darker, certainly in the less innocent modern age in which we live in adults stalking people doesn't seem at all acceptable. People have to be aware of the fear and harm this kind of behavior can cause, old fashioned ideas of shyness simply don't apply anymore as adults are expected to know better and that stalking is actually a criminal offence.
    Certainly it's fully understandable why women may feel much more vunerable to been stalked but that is not to say that a guy isn't also going to feel threatened by this behavior either.
    But also there is attitude towards stalking behavior today, as opposed to years ago when stalking had never been heard of, that is people might not have been threatened by this behavior because it was percieved as innocent or shyness in the past it most certaintly isn't now. Stalking is associated with the unbalanced or people with problems that make them dangerous, so anyone would be scared of stalkers today.
    But basically behavior acceptable in the past or by children today doesn't mean it is acceptable by adults today and should be kept and thought of as distinctly seperate.
    stander-j and seagypsy like this.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,103
    Quote Originally Posted by Tranquille View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    I understand what you are saying. I was just expressing why I could see why he wouldn't automatically think of that. Our society does send mixed messages about these sorts of things.

    I think the "Don't be a squawker, Don't be afraid" line kind of says it all really.

    It reminds me of the "My Video for Briona" nightmare. I still can't hear the words "hey baby girl" without wanting to scrub my skin with and a metal brush.
    Good point, I must have glossed over that particular line in the song.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    2,222
    Quote Originally Posted by Strange View Post
    To the tune of (the equally creepy) "Every step you take"?
    Side note - it was creepy to hear how many high school proms/wedding receptions featured that song back in the 80's. Sting actually mentioned that in an interview - that it was a thread about unhealthy obsessions, not "true love" or anything.
    seagypsy likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  18. #17  
    Forum Ph.D. stander-j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    854
    There are a lot of songs that are about issues like this. At first glance it's always creepy, but sometimes that's the effect the writer is looking to induce - because it emphasizes very real, very scary issues that people just don't talk about. For instance, "The Guitar Lesson" by Momus is easily the creepiest most disturbing song I've ever heard... But the point of the song is to make you feel disturbed, it's supposed invoke the realisation that there is a dangerous power imbalance in the Teacher-Student relationship. That's something that needs to addressed, and he does this by paralleling and referencing Balthus's notorious painting "The Guitar Lesson".

    I am willing to give Colyer the benefit of the doubt here. Maybe it isn't a misguided attempt at a love song so much as it is trying to emphasize a misguided thought process that can blur the lines between a person's senses of right and wrong, as well as the difference between objectifying people and treating them like proper human beings.
    Last edited by stander-j; November 24th, 2013 at 05:34 PM. Reason: Rogue apostrophe
    "Cultivated leisure is the aim of man."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  19. #18  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    Maybe it isn't a misguided attempt at a love song so much as it is trying to emphasize a misguided thought process that can blur the line's between a person's senses of right and wrong, as well as the difference between objectifying people and treating them like proper human beings.
    Which is where we get right back to considering the impact on people in this forum.

    More than a quarter of all women and girls have been assaulted, raped, stalked or otherwise intimidated by men - which means there are a a good number of members of this forum with such experiences, and we have no way of knowing how many casual visitors who aren't members. Even though this lyric is about a man stalking a woman, there are also some men who've had similar experiences who might find this pretty uncomfortable as well.

    Anyone who wants to raise such a difficult topic should do it in the usual way - with the standard Trigger Warning to let people know they might want to avoid the text.
    stander-j likes this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  20. #19  
    Forum Ph.D. stander-j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    854
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    Maybe it isn't a misguided attempt at a love song so much as it is trying to emphasize a misguided thought process that can blur the line's between a person's senses of right and wrong, as well as the difference between objectifying people and treating them like proper human beings.
    Which is where we get right back to considering the impact on people in this forum.

    More than a quarter of all women and girls have been assaulted, raped, stalked or otherwise intimidated by men - which means there are a a good number of members of this forum with such experiences, and we have no way of knowing how many casual visitors who aren't members. Even though this lyric is about a man stalking a woman, there are also some men who've had similar experiences who might find this pretty uncomfortable as well.

    Anyone who wants to raise such a difficult topic should do it in the usual way - with the standard Trigger Warning to let people know they might want to avoid the text.
    Oh, I don't protest this at all. That would have been the appropriate way of sharing his song. I'm just getting a vibe that some of the comments here have accusatory sentiments about the content (This song has stalker vibe to it, therefore it must be with ignorant/bad intentions), rather than keeping an open mind about its intent. Then again, that's just how I read into some of the comments. I'd just like to more talk about intent, and not just content.
    "Cultivated leisure is the aim of man."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  21. #20  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    But basically behavior acceptable in the past or by children today doesn't mean it is acceptable by adults today and should be kept and thought of as distinctly seperate.
    Absolutely. Sometimes we forget just how much things have changed in the last 50 years.

    For a long time I kept a book on the shelf because it was an exact example of this sort of thing in changing attitudes. It was a reasonably short novel which had a quite enthusiastic review in the NYT in the mid to late 50s. Boldly splashed across the back cover. The reviewer was delighted with a "hilarious" "seduction" scene and wrote more than a couple of lines about it. When you read it, the bloke was holding the woman down, there were all sorts of amusing moments where she tried to get away from him but he managed to grab her arm or her ankle and keep hold of her - and proceeded to rape her. If anyone wrote such stuff now it might get a favourable review for being a realistic representation of rape, but no modern critic would see the incident as harmless, let alone funny or hilarious.

    If you watch a film like Carousel from the same period, you see the then common attitude about violence against women. If you really love him, it doesn't hurt that much when he hits you. (The corollary being, if you complain about it you're not a good, loving wife and your complaint is not worth listening to.)
    Ascended likes this.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  22. #21  
    Ascended Member Ascended's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Norfolk
    Posts
    3,411
    I wonder how much films such as that contributed to the prevailing attitudes of time regarding what was and wasn't acceptable behavior. Also there seems somewhat of a contradiction going on in the way the past is sometimes portayed. On the one hand on television and in films men have been potrayed as treating women as ladies, protecting them from anything unsavoury, yet behind closed women were getting battered and this somehow considered acceptable or at least not talked about.

    In a way it seems even more shocking that the way women were being viewed at time as more helpless and yet still a man was somehow allowed to beat his wife. By contrast it seems in this day and age women arn't considered to be quite the delicate creatures of yestayear but also it is completely unacceptable for a man to hit his wife or girlfriend.

    I guess sometimes it seems quite hard to really fathom the way people can get strange ideas about right and wrong.
    Everything has its beauty, but not everyone sees it. - confucius
    Reply With Quote  
     

  23. #22  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,222
    In a way it seems even more shocking that the way women were being viewed at time as more helpless and yet still a man was somehow allowed to beat his wife.
    It was a bit more complex than that. I can remember my dad being absolutely furious with me because my best friend and I had gone out for the day (Americans would call it the State Fair, I suppose) and got home really, really late. There was an undercurrent, a hint, that she was not the best kind of friend to have in the first place. Pretty odd, because we and a handful of others had been a really tight friendship group for more than five years at that point.

    Later I discovered that her dad was well-known and heartily disliked at the local RSL club (our veterans' organisation) for being a. a drunkard, b. a wife-beater. The important distinction between then and now is that it was seen as his personal moral failing rather than as a police matter. Same thing for a family several houses away in our street. There were literally hundreds of people who knew what was going on, but no one did anything.

    The idea that anyone, family or official, should intervene in such families was totally foreign. He was not a good provider because he drank the housekeeping money, he was not a "real man" because he hit a woman. She was a bit of a saint for putting up with him. But the only way out for either of them was for him to straighten up and fly right. The idea of her leaving and taking the kids seemed not to occur to anyone - it would have been shocking if she'd done so. Some of the gossips might have whispered that it served him right, but she'd still be seen as a bit of a weakling or otherwise inadequate for not getting her bloke to behave better.

    And modern attitudes haven't changed as much as we'd like. 10 years ago there were plenty of places or age groups, if not the whole country, where you'd find a majority of people saying that a man was justified in hitting a woman for such things as being late to get a meal on the table, not keeping the house clean or the kids quiet, refusing sex and the like. Nowadays you rarely find a majority expressing such views, but there's always a substantial minority to keep you on the depressed side.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  24. #23  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    St.ives- the perfect town
    Posts
    69
    [QUOTE=adelady;489838]MODERATOR COMMENT
    Yeah well said, i dont know why someone would put that on there and he knew, well actually yeah its obvious, he wanted the attention, thats why he put it in white writing, thats why he said what he said before, and thats why someone would even bother to write something so distorted on such a well respected and shall we say high standard of human being site! that sorta thing is more fetching of a twisted chat site and even then they'd BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO him off. unbelievable.
    "



    Reply With Quote  
     

  25. #24  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,103
    Quote Originally Posted by graemedon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    MODERATOR COMMENT

    Yeah well said, i dont know why someone would put that on there and he knew, well actually yeah its obvious, he wanted the attention, thats why he put it in white writing, thats why he said what he said before, and thats why someone would even bother to write something so distorted on such a well respected and shall we say high standard of human being site! that sorta thing is more fetching of a twisted chat site and even then they'd BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO him off. unbelievable.
    "



    You are missing something. He didn't originally put it in white. Adelady, a moderator, edited his post and turned it white. Adelady is the one that added the warning that the lyrics may be disturbing. Coyler didn't do that. He posts lyrics to songs all the time and rarely gets much feedback at all on them. I doubt he was going out of his way to get negative attention for this. Coyler seems to have been oblivious to the possible reactions to the song lyrics, and hasn't once responded to any of the reactions posted. He may not even be aware that there has been any sort of reaction to it. He really isn't that active on the forum.
    graemedon likes this.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  26. #25  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,540
    Quote Originally Posted by graemedon View Post
    high standard of human being site!
    Speak for yourself!
    seagypsy likes this.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  27. #26  
    has lost interest seagypsy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    3,103
    I just checked. Jim Coyler hasn't been active on the forum since he posted the OP. I doubt he is aware of any of the discussion that has followed, let alone the edits to his post.
    Speaking badly about people after they are gone and jumping on the bash the band wagon must do very well for a low self-esteem.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  28. #27  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    238
    I was accused of being a stalker once, because there was a phenomally beautiful girl at my high school and I am shy to a socially crippling degree. I am attractive enough that I have had many relationships without any need to overcome my crippling shyness, and I have never had to ask a girl out, or ask for a phone number. This really doesn't help the shyness at all.

    Anyway, I was entranced by this girl, but I was too shy to make any kind of approach, as I didn't know her or any of her friends. One of her friends came up to me one day, and asked me if I was stalking her. I was shattered. Devastated. It was so painful for me to hear that question. It hurt me so much, that she thought I was stalking her, that I completely ignored her for the rest of my time in that high school (I moved out of state afterward). I would never want to cause someone to worry like that.

    I think my point here, is that while actual stalking is awful and terrible, and can cause emotional distress, being wrongfully accused of being a stalker because you are shy can cause at least an equal amount of emotional distress.

    Human behavior is very interesting, but we should always be mindful, lest we hurt innocent people.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  29. #28  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Posts
    238
    I don't understand how White Flag by Dido can be construed as a song about stalking. The subject of her song is a man she once had a relationship with, and she's singing about how she still loves him, and can't help it. Love is a powerful thing, and can't simply be swept under the rug like a mote of dust. She knows she will see him in her life because they live in the same city, and she'll pretend that she's over it, but really, she won't ever be, because of how much she loved him when they were together. Such a powerful, emotional song... to be thought of as a song about a stalker seems like a hideously perverse misinterpretation. I cry when I hear the song, and think about the people I used to love with all my heart, and to some extent, still do love.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  30. #29  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    St.ives- the perfect town
    Posts
    69
    Quote Originally Posted by seagypsy View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by graemedon View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    MODERATOR COMMENT
    Yeah well said, i dont know why someone would put that on there and he knew, well actually yeah its obvious, he wanted the attention, thats why he put it in white writing, thats why he said what he said before, and thats why someone would even bother to write something so distorted on such a well respected and shall we say high standard of human being site! that sorta thing is more fetching of a twisted chat site and even then they'd BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO him off. unbelievable.
    "
    You are missing something. He didn't originally put it in white. Adelady, a moderator, edited his post and turned it white. Adelady is the one that added the warning that the lyrics may be disturbing. Coyler didn't do that. He posts lyrics to songs all the time and rarely gets much feedback at all on them. I doubt he was going out of his way to get negative attention for this. Coyler seems to have been oblivious to the possible reactions to the song lyrics, and hasn't once responded to any of the reactions posted. He may not even be aware that there has been any sort of reaction to it. He really isn't that active on the forum.
    i am corected and i apologise, and you are right it is exactly how you put it. have a nice day, even thoa its freeeezing

    I am corrected and i apologise and you are right it is how you put it sorry for jumping a gun, i personally thoa in my opinion wouldnt write stuff like that if it may get a negative reaction. i can see why the moderator said what they sdaid but i can alos understand completely where your coming from seagypsy
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. I have a Stalker
    By TheDr.Spo in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 53
    Last Post: December 16th, 2010, 12:12 AM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •