Notices
Results 1 to 16 of 16
Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By John Galt
  • 1 Post By cosmictraveler

Thread: Hollywood and how Bad Guys fail - A sort of Film Review.

  1. #1 Hollywood and how Bad Guys fail - A sort of Film Review. 
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,701
    I just watched Olympus Has Fallen and realised, finally, how tedious it and its ilk really are.

    How it should go:
    Bad Guy: Ha! My master plan is in motion and my minions have just had a cake walk massacring your highly trained and professional armed forces.
    Good Guy Spokesman: We have 5,000 tanks, 200,000 infantry and eleventy-three carrier fleets heading for your position. Give up now.
    BG: I have taken every possible contingency into consideration and am prepared to destroy all of those forces in detail if required so to do.
    GGS: We've just sent Special Forces to prove you wrong.
    BG: You mean the ones I wiped out three seconds ago when they fell into my carefully-prepared trap?
    GGS: Okay we give up.
    BG: Finally. Give me all your money, all your women and make sure Broken Arrow is on TV at least twice a week 1. Then I will let you live.
    GGS: We accede to your demands and are standing down now. Oh, would you let Jim know? Tell him to come home.
    BG: Jim?
    GGS: Yeah. Don't worry about him. He's in your building somewhere, alone and unarmed. He won't be a problem because he's got alcohol problems/ relationship problems/ nobody gets on with him.
    BG: Alone and unarmed? Sh*t. I'm pulling out. I'll be back next week with a more infallible plan.

    Yeah, okay, the one-man-against-overwhelming-odds is pretty neat now and again 2, but really, One Guy succeeds where teams (or battalions) fail?
    Apart from the general infeasibility 4 has no single Bad Guy in the films ever seen Die Hard/ Lock Down/ or the 1,0001 other films where that happens?
    Bad Guy can plan for the most ridiculous counter move by the Ineffectual Good Guy Spokesman 5 and have an unexpected super-weapon 6 in position anything up to a week beforehand but he can't count on his minions 7 to stop one f*ckin' guy coming down the corridor.

    Oh yeah... (with particular reference to this film) why is the President as stupid as f*ck?
    Aide gets tortured for the secret code that will unlock the nuclear weapons; aide resists; president waits a while and then orders said aide to submit, because, and I quote, "they need my code too, and they'll never get it from me. Ever."
    So he let her be tortured for a while before making her comply? Thus ensuring her injuries were sustained for no reason whatsoever?
    Surely the rational thing to do would be either A) tell her to submit straight away or B) (more rational 8 although somewhat less compassionate) accept that she's not going to surrender her code. That way Bad Guy can't possibly get the code even if the President does, despite his claim, give his up. It's a belts and braces thing, y'know?

    1 It's a Scott Adams thing, don't worry about it.
    2 With the added element of "In similar circumstances that would be me" 3.
    3 Unless I've got a book to finish. Or the hamster needs feeding. Or... something.
    4 I mean, how come the One Guy never works for the Bad Guy?
    5 Said counter move usually proposed and initiated by the Good-but-Arrogant-and-Basically-Out-of-Touch/ Slightly-Incompetent General.
    6 Usually the Acme Plot Device TM (with or without extra knobs, dials and rotary-barrelled cannon).
    7 Banana!
    8 On the subject of rationality - why DO the Good Guys always surrender? Okay, don't kill the President 9 and we'll pull out of South Korea, thus sparing a dozen people while ensuring millions will probably die and further millions end up living under a nutcase in charge of an evil commie regime.
    9 WTF? Is it the man or the office that's important here? Go ahead kill that guy, you won't break the nation or the institution, the second you're dead Mr. Bad Guy we'll have a new president and you'll have lost BIG TIME 10.
    10 I can't, for the life of me, remember whether it was film or a comic, but there was one (fictional) hostage situation where Bad Guy had a gun to Minor Good Guy's head and told One Guy to surrender "Or I'll blow her brains out". One Guy smiles sharkily and says "Go ahead - her being alive is the only thing that's keeping your intestines internal at the moment. What do you think's gonna happen if you pull the trigger?". Bad Guy: "Er, I surrender?"


    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,099
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    I just watched Olympus Has Fallen and realised, finally, how tedious it and its ilk really are.

    How it should go:
    Bad Guy: Ha! My master plan is in motion and my minions have just had a cake walk massacring your highly trained and professional armed forces.
    Good Guy Spokesman: We have 5,000 tanks, 200,000 infantry and eleventy-three carrier fleets heading for your position. Give up now.
    BG: I have taken every possible contingency into consideration and am prepared to destroy all of those forces in detail if required so to do.
    GGS: We've just sent Special Forces to prove you wrong.
    BG: You mean the ones I wiped out three seconds ago when they fell into my carefully-prepared trap?
    GGS: Okay we give up.
    BG: Finally. Give me all your money, all your women and make sure Broken Arrow is on TV at least twice a week 1. Then I will let you live.
    GGS: We accede to your demands and are standing down now. Oh, would you let Jim know? Tell him to come home.
    BG: Jim?
    GGS: Yeah. Don't worry about him. He's in your building somewhere, alone and unarmed. He won't be a problem because he's got alcohol problems/ relationship problems/ nobody gets on with him.
    BG: Alone and unarmed? Sh*t. I'm pulling out. I'll be back next week with a more infallible plan.

    Yeah, okay, the one-man-against-overwhelming-odds is pretty neat now and again 2, but really, One Guy succeeds where teams (or battalions) fail?
    Apart from the general infeasibility 4 has no single Bad Guy in the films ever seen Die Hard/ Lock Down/ or the 1,0001 other films where that happens?
    Bad Guy can plan for the most ridiculous counter move by the Ineffectual Good Guy Spokesman 5 and have an unexpected super-weapon 6 in position anything up to a week beforehand but he can't count on his minions 7 to stop one f*ckin' guy coming down the corridor.

    Oh yeah... (with particular reference to this film) why is the President as stupid as f*ck?
    Aide gets tortured for the secret code that will unlock the nuclear weapons; aide resists; president waits a while and then orders said aide to submit, because, and I quote, "they need my code too, and they'll never get it from me. Ever."
    So he let her be tortured for a while before making her comply? Thus ensuring her injuries were sustained for no reason whatsoever?
    Surely the rational thing to do would be either A) tell her to submit straight away or B) (more rational 8 although somewhat less compassionate) accept that she's not going to surrender her code. That way Bad Guy can't possibly get the code even if the President does, despite his claim, give his up. It's a belts and braces thing, y'know?

    1 It's a Scott Adams thing, don't worry about it.
    2 With the added element of "In similar circumstances that would be me" 3.
    3 Unless I've got a book to finish. Or the hamster needs feeding. Or... something.
    4 I mean, how come the One Guy never works for the Bad Guy?
    5 Said counter move usually proposed and initiated by the Good-but-Arrogant-and-Basically-Out-of-Touch/ Slightly-Incompetent General.
    6 Usually the Acme Plot Device TM (with or without extra knobs, dials and rotary-barrelled cannon).
    7 Banana!
    8 On the subject of rationality - why DO the Good Guys always surrender? Okay, don't kill the President 9 and we'll pull out of South Korea, thus sparing a dozen people while ensuring millions will probably die and further millions end up living under a nutcase in charge of an evil commie regime.
    9 WTF? Is it the man or the office that's important here? Go ahead kill that guy, you won't break the nation or the institution, the second you're dead Mr. Bad Guy we'll have a new president and you'll have lost BIG TIME 10.
    10 I can't, for the life of me, remember whether it was film or a comic, but there was one (fictional) hostage situation where Bad Guy had a gun to Minor Good Guy's head and told One Guy to surrender "Or I'll blow her brains out". One Guy smiles sharkily and says "Go ahead - her being alive is the only thing that's keeping your intestines internal at the moment. What do you think's gonna happen if you pull the trigger?". Bad Guy: "Er, I surrender?"
    Sometimes, Mr. Ducky, they are predictable


    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Life-Size Nanoputian Flick Montana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Flatland
    Posts
    5,437
    Bottom line; Americans just like explosions.
    "Sometimes I think the surest sign that intelligent life exists elsewhere in the universe is that none of it has tried to contact us." -Calvin
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator Cogito Ergo Sum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Belgium
    Posts
    2,519
    Quote Originally Posted by Dywyddyr View Post
    I just watched Olympus Has Fallen and realised, finally, how tedious it and its ilk really are.

    How it should go:
    Bad Guy: Ha! My master plan is in motion and my minions have just had a cake walk massacring your highly trained and professional armed forces.
    Good Guy Spokesman: We have 5,000 tanks, 200,000 infantry and eleventy-three carrier fleets heading for your position. Give up now.
    BG: I have taken every possible contingency into consideration and am prepared to destroy all of those forces in detail if required so to do.
    GGS: We've just sent Special Forces to prove you wrong.
    BG: You mean the ones I wiped out three seconds ago when they fell into my carefully-prepared trap?
    GGS: Okay we give up.
    BG: Finally. Give me all your money, all your women and make sure Broken Arrow is on TV at least twice a week 1. Then I will let you live.
    GGS: We accede to your demands and are standing down now. Oh, would you let Jim know? Tell him to come home.
    BG: Jim?
    GGS: Yeah. Don't worry about him. He's in your building somewhere, alone and unarmed. He won't be a problem because he's got alcohol problems/ relationship problems/ nobody gets on with him.
    BG: Alone and unarmed? Sh*t. I'm pulling out. I'll be back next week with a more infallible plan.

    Yeah, okay, the one-man-against-overwhelming-odds is pretty neat now and again 2, but really, One Guy succeeds where teams (or battalions) fail?
    Apart from the general infeasibility 4 has no single Bad Guy in the films ever seen Die Hard/ Lock Down/ or the 1,0001 other films where that happens?
    Bad Guy can plan for the most ridiculous counter move by the Ineffectual Good Guy Spokesman 5 and have an unexpected super-weapon 6 in position anything up to a week beforehand but he can't count on his minions 7 to stop one f*ckin' guy coming down the corridor.

    Oh yeah... (with particular reference to this film) why is the President as stupid as f*ck?
    Aide gets tortured for the secret code that will unlock the nuclear weapons; aide resists; president waits a while and then orders said aide to submit, because, and I quote, "they need my code too, and they'll never get it from me. Ever."
    So he let her be tortured for a while before making her comply? Thus ensuring her injuries were sustained for no reason whatsoever?
    Surely the rational thing to do would be either A) tell her to submit straight away or B) (more rational 8 although somewhat less compassionate) accept that she's not going to surrender her code. That way Bad Guy can't possibly get the code even if the President does, despite his claim, give his up. It's a belts and braces thing, y'know?

    I advise you to send this thread to the guys of CinemaSins. They would love it.
    (cf. CinemaSins - YouTube)
    "The only safe rule is to dispute only with those of your acquaintance of whom you know that they possess sufficient intelligence and self-respect not to advance absurdities; to appeal to reason and not to authority, and to listen to reason and yield to it; and, finally, to be willing to accept reason even from an opponent, and to be just enough to bear being proved to be in the wrong."

    ~ Arthur Schopenhauer, The Art of Being Right: 38 Ways to Win an Argument (1831), Stratagem XXXVIII.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Ph.D. stander-j's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Winnipeg
    Posts
    854
    I like to think that there is an Action Movie Bible of Tropes, and that screen writers have secretly agreed that every action story needs to select a specific number of tropes from the book before it can be considered an action movie. Screenplays that do not adhere... They go to Hell - Development Hell.
    "Cultivated leisure is the aim of man."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Forum Freshman onechordbassist's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Posts
    12
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,099
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Bottom line; Americans just like explosions.
    The theatre productions I have been in that have pyro's are always fun.

    Audiences love them!
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    I watched Olympus Has Fallen yesterday, crossing the Atlantic. I then watched Oblivion. The guy on the seat next to me was reading Invictus. It then raised this question in my mind.

    "Name three movies, other than Lord of the Rings, that Morgan Freeman is not in."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,099
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    I watched Olympus Has Fallen yesterday, crossing the Atlantic. I then watched Oblivion. The guy on the seat next to me was reading Invictus. It then raised this question in my mind.

    "Name three movies, other than Lord of the Rings, that Morgan Freeman is not in."
    in general or in a defined category

    if you would

    Please Mr. Galt
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,701
    Matrix Trilogy (I know, there was really only one Matrix film, but the common myth is that there were three films).
    Subway.
    Diva.
    La Femme Nikita.
    True Lies.
    Any Ealing comedy!
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    14,168
    Babe, Duck, I can't respond to questions that took ironic hyperbole as reality. If I did I'd have to enter politics.
    Dywyddyr likes this.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Genius Duck Moderator Dywyddyr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Scunthorpe, UK
    Posts
    11,701
    Hey! I'm only demonstrating my nerdy literalism.
    "[Dywyddyr] makes a grumpy bastard like me seem like a happy go lucky scamp" - PhDemon
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,099
    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    Babe, Duck, I can't respond to questions that took ironic hyperbole as reality. If I did I'd have to enter politics.
    I might consider auditioining you for my co in "Love Letters", if you wish to enter a new *cough* "forum".
    Reply With Quote  
     

  15. #14  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,099
    Quote Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
    Bottom line; Americans just like explosions.
    EVERYONE DOES!

    Pyrotechnics in theatre!! HUGE
    Reply With Quote  
     

  16. #15  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Key West, Florida, Earth
    Posts
    4,788
    These types of movies have been going on for decades now and seem to never slow down. They are simple to write, don't need a highly talented actor and many are low budget with high earnings potential. Then again so are other movies that have also been beaten to death like romance, tear jerker's, mystery and others. That's why I do not go out and pay to see this kind of thing every time another hits the theater. I only go to about 4 movies or so a year because most are only remakes, as I have stated, of what's been done before. I would say that every now and then a movie comes along which is a remake but is done very well, well enough that I will go out to see it. The big problem is trying to find which ones that are the best.
    Ascended likes this.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
    Reply With Quote  
     

  17. #16  
    Theatre Whore babe's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Resident of Big Island of Hawai'i since 2003, and in Bayside, Ca. since 1981, Humboldt since 1977
    Posts
    13,099
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    These types of movies have been going on for decades now and seem to never slow down. They are simple to write, don't need a highly talented actor and many are low budget with high earnings potential. Then again so are other movies that have also been beaten to death like romance, tear jerker's, mystery and others. That's why I do not go out and pay to see this kind of thing every time another hits the theater. I only go to about 4 movies or so a year because most are only remakes, as I have stated, of what's been done before. I would say that every now and then a movie comes along which is a remake but is done very well, well enough that I will go out to see it. The big problem is trying to find which ones that are the best.
    Hey!! I love romance, tear jerkers, mystery, action and all the above.

    I never go to the movies.

    I am usually busy doing music or theatre.

    I rent movies. *hanging head in shame*
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 30
    Last Post: March 13th, 2010, 09:01 AM
  2. Hollywood Pigeons to Be Put on the Pill
    By scpg02 in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: August 2nd, 2007, 10:54 AM
  3. Mac did a bad, bad thing...hard drive problems
    By MacGyver1968 in forum Computer Science
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: December 13th, 2006, 04:54 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •