Thread: Hollywood and how Bad Guys fail - A sort of Film Review.

I just watched Olympus Has Fallen and realised, finally, how tedious it and its ilk really are.

How it should go:
Bad Guy: Ha! My master plan is in motion and my minions have just had a cake walk massacring your highly trained and professional armed forces.
Good Guy Spokesman: We have 5,000 tanks, 200,000 infantry and eleventy-three carrier fleets heading for your position. Give up now.
BG: I have taken every possible contingency into consideration and am prepared to destroy all of those forces in detail if required so to do.
GGS: We've just sent Special Forces to prove you wrong.
BG: You mean the ones I wiped out three seconds ago when they fell into my carefully-prepared trap?
GGS: Okay we give up.
BG: Finally. Give me all your money, all your women and make sure Broken Arrow is on TV at least twice a week ¹. Then I will let you live.
GGS: We accede to your demands and are standing down now. Oh, would you let Jim know? Tell him to come home.
BG: Jim?
GGS: Yeah. Don't worry about him. He's in your building somewhere, alone and unarmed. He won't be a problem because he's got alcohol problems/ relationship problems/ nobody gets on with him.
BG: Alone and unarmed? Sh*t. I'm pulling out. I'll be back next week with a more infallible plan.

Yeah, okay, the one-man-against-overwhelming-odds is pretty neat now and again ², but really, One Guy succeeds where teams (or battalions) fail?
Apart from the general infeasibility ⁴ has no single Bad Guy in the films ever seen Die Hard/ Lock Down/ or the 1,0001 other films where that happens?
Bad Guy can plan for the most ridiculous counter move by the Ineffectual Good Guy Spokesman ⁵ and have an unexpected super-weapon ⁶ in position anything up to a week beforehand but he can't count on his minions ⁷ to stop one f*ckin' guy coming down the corridor.

Oh yeah... (with particular reference to this film) why is the President as stupid as f*ck?
Aide gets tortured for the secret code that will unlock the nuclear weapons; aide resists; president waits a while and then orders said aide to submit, because, and I quote, "they need my code too, and they'll never get it from me. Ever."
So he let her be tortured for a while before making her comply? Thus ensuring her injuries were sustained for no reason whatsoever?
Surely the rational thing to do would be either A) tell her to submit straight away or B) (more rational ⁸ although somewhat less compassionate) accept that she's not going to surrender her code. That way Bad Guy can't possibly get the code even if the President does, despite his claim, give his up. It's a belts and braces thing, y'know?

1 It's a Scott Adams thing, don't worry about it.
2 With the added element of "In similar circumstances that would be me" ³.
3 Unless I've got a book to finish. Or the hamster needs feeding. Or... something.
4 I mean, how come the One Guy never works for the Bad Guy?
5 Said counter move usually proposed and initiated by the Good-but-Arrogant-and-Basically-Out-of-Touch/ Slightly-Incompetent General.
6 Usually the Acme Plot Device ^TM (with or without extra knobs, dials and rotary-barrelled cannon).
7 Banana!
8 On the subject of rationality - why DO the Good Guys always surrender? Okay, don't kill the President ⁹ and we'll pull out of South Korea, thus sparing a dozen people while ensuring millions will probably die and further millions end up living under a nutcase in charge of an evil commie regime.
9 WTF? Is it the man or the office that's important here? Go ahead kill that guy, you won't break the nation or the institution, the second you're dead Mr. Bad Guy we'll have a new president and you'll have lost BIG TIME ¹⁰.
10 I can't, for the life of me, remember whether it was film or a comic, but there was one (fictional) hostage situation where Bad Guy had a gun to Minor Good Guy's head and told One Guy to surrender "Or I'll blow her brains out". One Guy smiles sharkily and says "Go ahead - her being alive is the only thing that's keeping your intestines internal at the moment. What do you think's gonna happen if you pull the trigger?". Bad Guy: "Er, I surrender?"

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

I just watched Olympus Has Fallen and realised, finally, how tedious it and its ilk really are.

How it should go:
Bad Guy: Ha! My master plan is in motion and my minions have just had a cake walk massacring your highly trained and professional armed forces.
Good Guy Spokesman: We have 5,000 tanks, 200,000 infantry and eleventy-three carrier fleets heading for your position. Give up now.
BG: I have taken every possible contingency into consideration and am prepared to destroy all of those forces in detail if required so to do.
GGS: We've just sent Special Forces to prove you wrong.
BG: You mean the ones I wiped out three seconds ago when they fell into my carefully-prepared trap?
GGS: Okay we give up.
BG: Finally. Give me all your money, all your women and make sure Broken Arrow is on TV at least twice a week ¹. Then I will let you live.
GGS: We accede to your demands and are standing down now. Oh, would you let Jim know? Tell him to come home.
BG: Jim?
GGS: Yeah. Don't worry about him. He's in your building somewhere, alone and unarmed. He won't be a problem because he's got alcohol problems/ relationship problems/ nobody gets on with him.
BG: Alone and unarmed? Sh*t. I'm pulling out. I'll be back next week with a more infallible plan.

Yeah, okay, the one-man-against-overwhelming-odds is pretty neat now and again ², but really, One Guy succeeds where teams (or battalions) fail?
Apart from the general infeasibility ⁴ has no single Bad Guy in the films ever seen Die Hard/ Lock Down/ or the 1,0001 other films where that happens?
Bad Guy can plan for the most ridiculous counter move by the Ineffectual Good Guy Spokesman ⁵ and have an unexpected super-weapon ⁶ in position anything up to a week beforehand but he can't count on his minions ⁷ to stop one f*ckin' guy coming down the corridor.

Oh yeah... (with particular reference to this film) why is the President as stupid as f*ck?
Aide gets tortured for the secret code that will unlock the nuclear weapons; aide resists; president waits a while and then orders said aide to submit, because, and I quote, "they need my code too, and they'll never get it from me. Ever."
So he let her be tortured for a while before making her comply? Thus ensuring her injuries were sustained for no reason whatsoever?
Surely the rational thing to do would be either A) tell her to submit straight away or B) (more rational ⁸ although somewhat less compassionate) accept that she's not going to surrender her code. That way Bad Guy can't possibly get the code even if the President does, despite his claim, give his up. It's a belts and braces thing, y'know?

1 It's a Scott Adams thing, don't worry about it.
2 With the added element of "In similar circumstances that would be me" ³.
3 Unless I've got a book to finish. Or the hamster needs feeding. Or... something.
4 I mean, how come the One Guy never works for the Bad Guy?
5 Said counter move usually proposed and initiated by the Good-but-Arrogant-and-Basically-Out-of-Touch/ Slightly-Incompetent General.
6 Usually the Acme Plot Device ^TM (with or without extra knobs, dials and rotary-barrelled cannon).
7 Banana!
8 On the subject of rationality - why DO the Good Guys always surrender? Okay, don't kill the President ⁹ and we'll pull out of South Korea, thus sparing a dozen people while ensuring millions will probably die and further millions end up living under a nutcase in charge of an evil commie regime.
9 WTF? Is it the man or the office that's important here? Go ahead kill that guy, you won't break the nation or the institution, the second you're dead Mr. Bad Guy we'll have a new president and you'll have lost BIG TIME ¹⁰.
10 I can't, for the life of me, remember whether it was film or a comic, but there was one (fictional) hostage situation where Bad Guy had a gun to Minor Good Guy's head and told One Guy to surrender "Or I'll blow her brains out". One Guy smiles sharkily and says "Go ahead - her being alive is the only thing that's keeping your intestines internal at the moment. What do you think's gonna happen if you pull the trigger?". Bad Guy: "Er, I surrender?"

Sometimes, Mr. Ducky, they are predictable

Bottom line; Americans just like explosions.

Originally Posted by Dywyddyr

I just watched Olympus Has Fallen and realised, finally, how tedious it and its ilk really are.

How it should go:
Bad Guy: Ha! My master plan is in motion and my minions have just had a cake walk massacring your highly trained and professional armed forces.
Good Guy Spokesman: We have 5,000 tanks, 200,000 infantry and eleventy-three carrier fleets heading for your position. Give up now.
BG: I have taken every possible contingency into consideration and am prepared to destroy all of those forces in detail if required so to do.
GGS: We've just sent Special Forces to prove you wrong.
BG: You mean the ones I wiped out three seconds ago when they fell into my carefully-prepared trap?
GGS: Okay we give up.
BG: Finally. Give me all your money, all your women and make sure Broken Arrow is on TV at least twice a week ¹. Then I will let you live.
GGS: We accede to your demands and are standing down now. Oh, would you let Jim know? Tell him to come home.
BG: Jim?
GGS: Yeah. Don't worry about him. He's in your building somewhere, alone and unarmed. He won't be a problem because he's got alcohol problems/ relationship problems/ nobody gets on with him.
BG: Alone and unarmed? Sh*t. I'm pulling out. I'll be back next week with a more infallible plan.

Yeah, okay, the one-man-against-overwhelming-odds is pretty neat now and again ², but really, One Guy succeeds where teams (or battalions) fail?
Apart from the general infeasibility ⁴ has no single Bad Guy in the films ever seen Die Hard/ Lock Down/ or the 1,0001 other films where that happens?
Bad Guy can plan for the most ridiculous counter move by the Ineffectual Good Guy Spokesman ⁵ and have an unexpected super-weapon ⁶ in position anything up to a week beforehand but he can't count on his minions ⁷ to stop one f*ckin' guy coming down the corridor.

Oh yeah... (with particular reference to this film) why is the President as stupid as f*ck?
Aide gets tortured for the secret code that will unlock the nuclear weapons; aide resists; president waits a while and then orders said aide to submit, because, and I quote, "they need my code too, and they'll never get it from me. Ever."
So he let her be tortured for a while before making her comply? Thus ensuring her injuries were sustained for no reason whatsoever?
Surely the rational thing to do would be either A) tell her to submit straight away or B) (more rational ⁸ although somewhat less compassionate) accept that she's not going to surrender her code. That way Bad Guy can't possibly get the code even if the President does, despite his claim, give his up. It's a belts and braces thing, y'know?

I advise you to send this thread to the guys of CinemaSins. They would love it.
(cf. CinemaSins - YouTube)

I like to think that there is an Action Movie Bible of Tropes, and that screen writers have secretly agreed that every action story needs to select a specific number of tropes from the book before it can be considered an action movie. Screenplays that do not adhere... They go to Hell - Development Hell.

Conservation of Ninjutsu

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Bottom line; Americans just like explosions.

The theatre productions I have been in that have pyro's are always fun.

Audiences love them!

I watched Olympus Has Fallen yesterday, crossing the Atlantic. I then watched Oblivion. The guy on the seat next to me was reading Invictus. It then raised this question in my mind.

"Name three movies, other than Lord of the Rings, that Morgan Freeman is not in."

Originally Posted by John Galt

I watched Olympus Has Fallen yesterday, crossing the Atlantic. I then watched Oblivion. The guy on the seat next to me was reading Invictus. It then raised this question in my mind.

"Name three movies, other than Lord of the Rings, that Morgan Freeman is not in."

in general or in a defined category

if you would

Please Mr. Galt

Matrix Trilogy (I know, there was really only one Matrix film, but the common myth is that there were three films).
Subway.
Diva.
La Femme Nikita.
True Lies.
Any Ealing comedy!

Babe, Duck, I can't respond to questions that took ironic hyperbole as reality. If I did I'd have to enter politics.

Hey! I'm only demonstrating my nerdy literalism.

Originally Posted by John Galt

Babe, Duck, I can't respond to questions that took ironic hyperbole as reality. If I did I'd have to enter politics.

I might consider auditioining you for my co in "Love Letters", if you wish to enter a new *cough* "forum".

Originally Posted by Flick Montana

Bottom line; Americans just like explosions.

EVERYONE DOES!

Pyrotechnics in theatre!! HUGE

These types of movies have been going on for decades now and seem to never slow down. They are simple to write, don't need a highly talented actor and many are low budget with high earnings potential. Then again so are other movies that have also been beaten to death like romance, tear jerker's, mystery and others. That's why I do not go out and pay to see this kind of thing every time another hits the theater. I only go to about 4 movies or so a year because most are only remakes, as I have stated, of what's been done before. I would say that every now and then a movie comes along which is a remake but is done very well, well enough that I will go out to see it. The big problem is trying to find which ones that are the best.

Originally Posted by cosmictraveler

These types of movies have been going on for decades now and seem to never slow down. They are simple to write, don't need a highly talented actor and many are low budget with high earnings potential. Then again so are other movies that have also been beaten to death like romance, tear jerker's, mystery and others. That's why I do not go out and pay to see this kind of thing every time another hits the theater. I only go to about 4 movies or so a year because most are only remakes, as I have stated, of what's been done before. I would say that every now and then a movie comes along which is a remake but is done very well, well enough that I will go out to see it. The big problem is trying to find which ones that are the best.

Hey!! I love romance, tear jerkers, mystery, action and all the above.

I never go to the movies.

I am usually busy doing music or theatre.

I rent movies. *hanging head in shame*