Notices
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: Homo Erectus Paleojavanicus

  1. #1 Homo Erectus Paleojavanicus 
    New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    2
    Hello, this is my first post but I have been watching this forum for quite a while now.

    Not long ago I came across some information regarding a little understood series of specimens that are often referred to as Homo Erectus Paleojavanicus or Meganthropus.

    For those of you who have not heard of it a quick web search will provide you with a small handful of published and reliable material but essentially it is claimed to be a giant member of the Hominidae family that's fossils were found in Indonesia at the Sangiran archeological site. It has been suggested that it could have been as big as 9 feet tall; which I am well aware sounds a bit hard to believe.

    The few times I have seen it being discussed there is usually a lot of debate and as of yet not much consensus has been reached.

    I am very confused at why so little about this species is known in scientific communities despite the unique nature of the fossils, what its proper placement as a species is and how a species like Paleojavanicus could have come to be so big. What are your opinions and does anyone have any information I have not heard?


    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,324
    Was the information you saw about Homo erectus Paleojavanicus in scholarly journals and relatively current?

    Try a google scholar search about it.



    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    4,627
    Just a note binomials and trinomials should be formatted Homo erectus paleojavanicus or H. e. meganthropus, not "Homo Erectus Paleojavanicus" or "Meganthropus"
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    OK. I checked the universal source. Meganthropus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Meganthropus has been the target of numerous extreme claims, none of which are supported by recent peer-reviewed authors. Perhaps the most common claim is that Meganthropus was a giant, one unsourced claim put them at 9 feet (2.75 m) tall and 750 to 1000 pounds (340 to 450 kilograms).

    No exact height has been published in a peer reviewed journal recently, and none give an indication of Meganthropus being substantially larger than
    H. erectus.
    (My emphasis)
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Cosmic Wizard
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    2,408
    There have been humans over 8 feet tall.

    Tallest man ever

    Tallest man - living | Size Records | Explore Official World Records | Guinness World Records

    So I wonder if the fossils called Meganthropus could have been a similar condition as giganticism in humans.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    New Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Posts
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by adelady View Post
    OK. I checked the universal source. Meganthropus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Meganthropus has been the target of numerous extreme claims, none of which are supported by recent peer-reviewed authors. Perhaps the most common claim is that Meganthropus was a giant, one unsourced claim put them at 9 feet (2.75 m) tall and 750 to 1000 pounds (340 to 450 kilograms).

    No exact height has been published in a peer reviewed journal recently, and none give an indication of Meganthropus being substantially larger than
    H. erectus.
    (My emphasis)
    I tend to doubt that Meganthropus was 9 feet tall. Apparently the claims about its size have come from the skull fragments (particularly the piece of a cranium that is has been classified as Sangiran 31 / Meganthropus II) which are described as being outside the normal range for Homo Erectus, but realistically are probably not giant. The main proponent of the Meganthropus being a giant theory is Dr Grover Krantz as far as I can tell. According to him it has a significantly larger cranial capacity than the 600-800 cc of Homo Erectus.
    He also created a replica of the skull but I cannot seem to find its exact dimensions in relation to standard Homo Erectus or any other species.

    Franz Weidenreich
    , its original discover believed it was 7/8 feet (based on a jaw fragment he found).
    To quote the Wikipedia page on Meganthropus.
    Weidenreich considered acromegalic gigantism, but ruled it out for not having typical features such as an exaggerated chin and small teeth compared to the jaw's size. Weidenreich never made a direct size estimate of the hominid it came from, but said it was 2/3 the size of Gigantopithecus, which was twice as large as a gorilla, which would make it somewhere around 8 feet (2.44 m) tall and approximately 400 to 600 lbs (181 – 272 kg) if scaled on the same proportions as a robust man or erect hominid. On page 61 of his book, "Apes, Giants, and Man" Weidenreich states the following: "Therefore, it may not be too far from the truth if we suggest the Java giant [Meganthropus] was much bigger than any living gorilla and that the Chinese giant [Gigantopithecus] was correspondingly bigger than the Java giant - That is, one and a half times as large as the Java giant, and twice as large as a male gorilla." The jawbone was apparently used in part of Grover Krantz's skull reconstruction, which was only 8.5 inches (21 centimeters) tall.
    I am really struggling to find information about they make these claims (except for numerous Indonesian websites that would have you believe it was closer to 10 feet tall)...


    Besides its height there is also the debate on its classification. While many place it with Homo Erectus, according to D. E. Tyler who published a paper in 2005 that I cannot find (but it is mentioned on the wikipedia page) shows it had a double temporal ridge and the temporal muscles extend to the top of the parietal where they nearly join. No Homo Erectus specimen exhibits this trait. So my other question is whether or not this should officially be classified as a distinctly separate species?
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    So my other question is whether or not this should officially be classified as a distinctly separate species?
    Maybe one day. But not on the fossil evidence we have so far.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    537
    You might want to look up the 'Cherchen man' .
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Pennsylvania
    Posts
    8,822
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    You might want to look up the 'Cherchen man' .
    I looked it up and it's a 3000 year old mummy, which means it has nothing to do with Homo erectus paleojavanicus.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    ▼▼ dn ʎɐʍ sıɥʇ ▼▼ RedPanda's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    2,737
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    You might want to look up the 'Cherchen man' .
    I have a friend who is the same height as Cherchen Man.
    Or was the height not the relevant bit?
    SayBigWords.com/say/3FC

    "And, behold, I come quickly;" Revelation 22:12

    "Religions are like sausages. When you know how they are made, you no longer want them."
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope Paleoichneum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Washington State, USA
    Posts
    4,627
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    You might want to look up the 'Cherchen man' .
    Why?
    If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world. -Thorin Oakenshield

    The needs of the many outweigh the need of the few - Spock of Vulcan & Sentinel Prime of Cybertron ---proof that "the needs" are in the eye of the beholder.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Time Lord
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    5,338
    Even if this thing is "normal" sized that's interesting. Because nearby we have the apparently tiny H. floresensis. Flores is a huge island. Why does one species dwarf while the other doesn't?
    A pong by any other name is still a pong. -williampinn
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Suspended
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Posts
    537
    Quote Originally Posted by RedPanda View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by hannah40 View Post
    You might want to look up the 'Cherchen man' .
    I have a friend who is the same height as Cherchen Man. Or was the height not the relevant bit?
    Yes, it was. Thanks for observing it.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. What is homo-polar generator?
    By elecate in forum Physics
    Replies: 24
    Last Post: February 17th, 2014, 09:46 PM
  2. Skull of Homo erectus throws story of human evolution into disarray
    By KALSTER in forum Anthropology, Archaeology and Palaeontology
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: October 30th, 2013, 11:53 AM
  3. Hello fellow homo sapiens~
    By Hassnhadi in forum Introductions
    Replies: 8
    Last Post: March 2nd, 2013, 03:51 PM
  4. HOMO/LUMO
    By georginho_juventusygr in forum Physics
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: December 13th, 2008, 09:00 AM
  5. Is homo floresiensis a person?
    By Pong in forum Philosophy
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: May 3rd, 2008, 03:26 AM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •