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Thread: Incan "Cult of the Dead"

  1. #1 Incan "Cult of the Dead" 
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    Is there evidence of warfare fought as early as 9,000 to 10,000 years ago in Chile among Chinchorro mummy remains involving dead leaders, as the Incas in the 1300-1400's did?


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  3. #2  
    Forum Ph.D.
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    There is evidence of warfare between different groups of apes. Why would there be any doubt that groups of native americans would have war? I don't understand your question.


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    No. You aren't thinking hard enough. Not everything is so simple. I want to know if they used dead ancestors in warfare (paraded them about like the Inca did and fought wars in their name) around 10,000 years ago. I have yet to find any evidence in peer reviewed journals...
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  5. #4  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    I doubt it mike.
    We have few archaeology sites from that time in the americas, and to the best of my knowledge no indications of warfare.
    However, as I have oft written, Most early archaeological sites before 6-8kybp are most likely under the ocean waters.

    Elsewhere, do we have indications of warfare circa 10kybp?
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  6. #5  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikepotter84 View Post
    Is there evidence of warfare fought as early as 9,000 to 10,000 years ago in Chile among Chinchorro mummy remains involving dead leaders, as the Incas in the 1300-1400's did?
    how would you recognise evidence for warfare + distinguish it from highway robbery-type killing ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  7. #6  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    numbers, marnix, numbers
    If you find one guy with an arrow in his back, or throat slit, think murder

    If you find several with arrow, spear, and blunt object wounds, think warfare.
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    and that evidence exist circa 10kybp ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  9. #8  
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    no marnixR
    at least nowhere that i am aware of
    however circa 10kybp, the sea levels were much lower(see doggerland) so, I would expect any "evidence" to be under the oceans' waves now.
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  10. #9  
    Forum Ph.D.
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    Defensive architectur is one of the clearest indicator of warfare. However the ditinction between warfare and robbery is often not clear. There is some middle eurasian nomadic people in who's language the word for "war" is literally "stealing cows".
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    Universal Mind John Galt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sealeaf View Post
    Defensive architectur is one of the clearest indicator of warfare. However the ditinction between warfare and robbery is often not clear. There is some middle eurasian nomadic people in who's language the word for "war" is literally "stealing cows".
    In the Scottish border territory I do not think it was thought of as 'stealing cows'. Rather it was intelligent acquisition of free roaming livestock on as needed basis. "If the Good Lord had not intended us to have them, he would not have made them so readily available."

    Quote Originally Posted by MikePotter
    I want to know if they used dead ancestors in warfare (paraded them about like the Inca did and fought wars in their name) around 10,000 years ago. I have yet to find any evidence in peer reviewed journals...
    In the absence of evidence what makes you think this is likely, or even sufficiently plausible to merit investigating?
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  12. #11  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    tain bo cuailnge
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  13. #12  
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    In the absence of evidence what makes you think this is likely, or even sufficiently plausible to merit investigating?
    Just checking to see if I was missing anything!!!
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  14. #13  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
    ... In the absence of evidence what makes you think this is likely, or even sufficiently plausible to merit investigating?
    John, that is precisely what archaeologist do. In the absence of evidence, they dig for evidence. "Likely", ? Most digs are dissapointments. But they do it again and again and again until the dissapointment morphs into knowledge.

    How many ignored Gbekli Tepe before Klaus Schmidt came along?
    Before his findings, No One in the community seriously doubted nor challenged the (prejudiced)concept that the Agricultural Revolution preceeded monumental archetecture by thousands of years.
    And now, that once cherished paradigm is in doubt, if not completely disregarded.

    Todays "implausible" is oft times tomorrows paradigm.
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  15. #14  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    how many disappointments does it take for absence of evidence to morph into evidence of absence ?
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  16. #15  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    How could anyone have an answer for that marnixR?

    I do know that Klaus took a site that many before him had ingored for over 30 years, assuming it to be "just be a Byzantine cemetery".
    So he took an unwanted dig and dug and found a paradigm shifter. And I really appreciate his efforts. If one assumes that there is nothing worth finding, and doesn't look, then science stops. If one decides to invest the time and sweat in search of knowledge, we all gain from the effort. But not always.

    How many disappointments, if disappointments are the coin of the realm, does it take to buy knowledge?
    When the knowledge comes, the cost is immaterial.
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    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    i know it was a bit of rhetorical question - more an indication that at some point most people will become convinced that there is nothing there, after all
    and in a few cases those people will turn out to be wrong, but not all that often
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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  18. #17  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
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    OK
    If fortified cities are an indicator of warfare, then Jerico seems to have been fortified circa 6500 bc
    That's the earliest I've become aware of.
    But as I always caution: We as a species tend to congregate mostly along the shores and in river deltas(most likely even more so when water transport was the dominant norm). Any of those sites pre 6000-6500 bc are now under the oceans and seas. So much(most?)early evidence of modern humans is most likely unavailable to archaeological studies.

    When do you stop looking?
    I do not know.
    I hope: Never.
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  19. #18  
    WYSIWYG Moderator marnixR's Avatar
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    not as old as jericho, but in the UK hill forts are a clear indication of a war-like society, and they were not restricted to coastal areas
    but maybe things were different 10,000 years ago - lower population densities to start with, and maybe less competition over resources and hunting grounds
    "Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." (Philip K. Dick)
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