Notices
Results 1 to 13 of 13

Thread: The Domestication of Plants and Animals

  1. #1 The Domestication of Plants and Animals 
    Forum Junior sampson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    246
    A gradual climb from 12,000 yrs' ago to ....today. A good thing? ....or ...... or as we say, "too much of a good thing can kill you". Ticks will eat until they burst, will the Primate Human die off from too much food leading to too many Homo sapiens, and all the advances in .....well......in everything?


    Last edited by sampson; April 11th, 2013 at 12:16 PM.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  2.  
     

  3. #2  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Key West, Florida, Earth
    Posts
    4,789
    It all depends upon how much you eat, what you eat and how high the quality of the food is. Moderation in everything is a very good thing to do.


    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
    Reply With Quote  
     

  4. #3  
    Forum Junior sampson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    It all depends upon how much you eat, what you eat and how high the quality of the food is. Moderation in everything is a very good thing to do.
    Well of course, but this is a question about the species.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  5. #4  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope cosmictraveler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Key West, Florida, Earth
    Posts
    4,789
    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    It all depends upon how much you eat, what you eat and how high the quality of the food is. Moderation in everything is a very good thing to do.
    Well of course, but this is a question about the species.
    Can you please elaborate as to what your question is, thanks.
    When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.
    Jimi Hendrix
    Reply With Quote  
     

  6. #5  
    Forum Junior sampson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by cosmictraveler View Post
    It all depends upon how much you eat, what you eat and how high the quality of the food is. Moderation in everything is a very good thing to do.
    Well of course, but this is a question about the species.
    Can you please elaborate as to what your question is, thanks.
    I want to start a discussion on the Domestication of Plants and Animals and it's impact on our environment. Before the DP&A, the human population was fairly stable at about a few million vs today's 7B+ and growing at a rate equal to pre-DP&A levels every month. Comparatively speaking this has caused rapid over-population and problems not yet recognized? Now, calculate your future.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  7. #6  
    Malignant Pimple shlunka's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Dogbox in front of Dywyddyr's house.
    Posts
    1,784
    The only side-effects of domestication that I'm aware of is a persistent laziness in most human beings, who no longer have to hunt/forage for food.
    "MODERATOR NOTE : We don't entertain trolls here, not even in the trash can. Banned." -Markus Hanke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  8. #7  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    I want to start a discussion on the Domestication of Plants and Animals and it's impact on our environment. Before the DP&A, the human population was fairly stable at about a few million
    I'm just interested how you conclude that the population was stable. My understanding it there's at least one severe funnel, where humanity nearly went extinct about 90,000 years ago, based on genetic studies.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  9. #8  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    city of wine and roses
    Posts
    6,225
    And remember, the current human population explosion is not just about domestication of plants and animals. It's about converting fossils into fertilisers to allow massive production of particular kinds of food - grains mainly.

    Can't find the quote just now, but it runs something like Modern agriculture is a method of using soil to convert petroleum into food.

    I've seen a couple of people use that as the basis for the obesity epidemics in some advanced economies. We're taking fossils from beneath the ground and converting it into fat people above the ground. (Yet again I haven't saved these.)

    This is all because if we were simply using domestication as the food production driver rather than the production of fertilisers, we'd have a completely different mix of foods being produced - as well as less of them. There certainly wouldn't be the discrepancy there currently is between the richest and poorest countries.
    "Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen." Winston Churchill
    "nature is like a game of Jenga; you never know which brick you pull out will cause the whole stack to collapse" Lucy Cooke
    Reply With Quote  
     

  10. #9  
    Forum Junior sampson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    I want to start a discussion on the Domestication of Plants and Animals and it's impact on our environment. Before the DP&A, the human population was fairly stable at about a few million
    I'm just interested how you conclude that the population was stable. My understanding it there's at least one severe funnel, where humanity nearly went extinct about 90,000 years ago, based on genetic studies.
    I don't conclude it, it is already concluded for me in the studies of hunters and gatherers. Of course there were events like the super volcano that you mentioned, but basically a H&G society is stable and the short 12.000yr history after the DP&A the population has taken off,,,well like a rocket. Chart:BTW, by my mistake I put this in the wrong section, but can't move it, can you? It needs to go in the Anthropology section.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  11. #10  
    Moderator Moderator
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    8,309
    Because of the scale to accommodate the high recent numbers, it is impossible to say whether the population was stable in the past from the chart. Decade to decade oscillation for example, could have been much higher than modern times and be completely masked by the scale. I think the idea of stable populations is likely an artifact of the noble savage myth where reality was wholesale starvation in bad times and dramatic increases during good times with wild fluctuations in populations locally, regionally and perhaps even on a global scale in response to prominent climate/geological events.

    --
    I'll move it at your request.
    Last edited by Lynx_Fox; April 12th, 2013 at 08:47 PM.
    Meteorologist/Naturalist & Retired Soldier
    “The Holy Land is everywhere” Black Elk
    Reply With Quote  
     

  12. #11  
    Forum Junior sampson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    246
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Because of the scale to accommodate the high recent numbers, it is impossible to say whether the population was stable in the past from the chart. Decade to decade oscillation for example, could have been much higher than modern times and be completely masked by the scale. I think the idea of stable populations is likely an artifact of the noble savage myth where reality was wholesale starvation in bad times and dramatic increases during good times with wild fluctuations in populations locally, regionally and perhaps even on a global scale in response to prominent climate/geological events.

    --
    I'll move it at your request.
    I don't want to get bogged down on the question of the population stability pre DP&A, as it is irrelevant to my question. Thanks for moving the thread for me, and maybe it will get more action in The Anthropology section.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  13. #12  
    Forum Radioactive Isotope sculptor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Posts
    4,211
    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Lynx_Fox View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by sampson View Post
    I want to start a discussion on the Domestication of Plants and Animals and it's impact on our environment. Before the DP&A, the human population was fairly stable at about a few million
    I'm just interested how you conclude that the population was stable. My understanding it there's at least one severe funnel, where humanity nearly went extinct about 90,000 years ago, based on genetic studies.
    I don't conclude it, it is already concluded for me in the studies of hunters and gatherers. Of course there were events like the super volcano that you mentioned, but basically a H&G society is stable and the short 12.000yr history after the DP&A the population has taken off,,,well like a rocket. Chart:BTW, by my mistake I put this in the wrong section, but can't move it, can you? It needs to go in the Anthropology section.
    sampson
    darned entertaining chart
    but
    you realize(of course) that there is no known way to prove the past numbers contained therein.

    until quite recently, the "agricultural revolution" was postulated to have occured between 7,000 and 10,000 years ago and also postulated to have predated monumental archetecture by several centuries to several milenia which was thought to have happened only 5,000-7000 years ago-------
    we now know that the second 1/2 of those postulations was incorrect

    I suspect that the origins of agriculture and civilization are now burried under the waves--and remain of an unknown date.
    Within recorded history, the known population has expanded with optimum climate conditions, and collapsed from famine and plague.

    that being said:
    The real key for population growth has been advances in transportation.
    When local conditions would have halved a population--- they either imported food or migrated.
    Once localized disasters were conquered by transportation, then came modern sanitation and medicines which allowed massive concentrations in urban settings, freeing up the land for factory production of foodstuffs which could then be transported to those no longer of, nor, on the land.

    Kill modern transportation, and you kill well over 1/2 the global population within a generation.
    Reply With Quote  
     

  14. #13  
    Forum Junior sampson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    246
    sampson
    darned entertaining chart
    but
    you realize(of course) that there is no known way to prove the past numbers contained therein.

    until quite recently, the "agricultural revolution" was postulated to have occured between 7,000 and 10,000 years ago and also postulated to have predated monumental archetecture by several centuries to several milenia which was thought to have happened only 5,000-7000 years ago-------
    we now know that the second 1/2 of those postulations was incorrect

    I suspect that the origins of agriculture and civilization are now burried under the waves--and remain of an unknown date.
    Within recorded history, the known population has expanded with optimum climate conditions, and collapsed from famine and plague.

    that being said:
    The real key for population growth has been advances in transportation.
    When local conditions would have halved a population--- they either imported food or migrated.
    Once localized disasters were conquered by transportation, then came modern sanitation and medicines which allowed massive concentrations in urban settings, freeing up the land for factory production of foodstuffs which could then be transported to those no longer of, nor, on the land.

    Kill modern transportation, and you kill well over 1/2 the global population within a generation.[/QUOTE]Transportation is a part of the infrastructure of modern society, and a breakdown would definitely have consequences on logistics, as we saw in the 73 oil embargo when milk and bread doubled overnight from the increase in transportation costs. That was a ripple compared to the tsunami that a complete breakdown would cause. After 9/11 we caught a glimpse of what an airline shut down would do, and it resulted in a new Gov't agency, Homeland Security costs, that have contributed to the trillions in the debt. So, I doubt it would take a generation, more like a chaos like never before experienced, and panic. Where that would lead is anyone's guess.
    Reply With Quote  
     

Similar Threads

  1. Plants
    By tracey in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: November 2nd, 2012, 10:03 PM
  2. Why don't we see many animals mass murdering other animals?
    By noSkillz in forum Behavior and Psychology
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: July 22nd, 2010, 04:46 PM
  3. energy conversions for plants and animals
    By biology1345 in forum Biology
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: February 21st, 2010, 04:16 PM
  4. Plants and Antioxidants
    By science726 in forum Biology
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: November 9th, 2009, 09:36 PM
  5. Plants and Water
    By dagovernatorjaws in forum Biology
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 3rd, 2005, 02:10 PM
Bookmarks
Bookmarks
Posting Permissions
  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •