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| 33 |
 Posted: Thu May 10, 2007 4:22 am Post subject: Why does pain have to be bad ? |
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Forum Sophomore
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Given how inflammation is one fo the processes involved in healing I wonder why there has been no attempt to try and promote or use this as means of sub setting the choice of 2 evils i.e. having temporary pain at the expense of long term relief , instead of vice vesa.
I know this doesnt apply as general rule but for sports related injuires like damaged ligaments I would of thought this would of been very useful.
Has there ever been attempt to do anthing like this through medication ?( I dont mean things like muscle rubs for aching muscles ) but something that addresses more serious / harder to heal components such tendon, ligaments.
33 |
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| Robbie |
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 12:10 am Post subject: |
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| Inflammation damages nearby tissues, the chemicals involved in an inflammatory response helps repair the area but damages the tissues forming scar tissue which isnt a great response, especially for muscle. |
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| Wolf |
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 8:29 am Post subject: Re: Why does pain have to be bad ? |
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| 33 wrote: |
Given how inflammation is one fo the processes involved in healing I wonder why there has been no attempt to try and promote or use this as means of sub setting the choice of 2 evils i.e. having temporary pain at the expense of long term relief , instead of vice vesa.
I know this doesnt apply as general rule but for sports related injuires like damaged ligaments I would of thought this would of been very useful.
Has there ever been attempt to do anthing like this through medication ?( I dont mean things like muscle rubs for aching muscles ) but something that addresses more serious / harder to heal components such tendon, ligaments.
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Recently whacked yourself on something?
Medically induced swelling...well there's an avenue I haven't thought about before! Nifty idea, but yer right, there are consequences.
I should probably call up my doctor friend and have her inform me, but I'm lazy so I'll use my own reasoning for this.
I assume there's three basic types of swelling in this regard:
1. Swelling with pain
2. Swelling without pain because of reactions
3. Swelling without pain because of nerve damage
I'm not sure what causes pain in swelling. Perhaps it's the stress on the tissues and nerves. I know that the body can induce swelling without pain, such as in cases of allergies or infections, but I can't rule out that the body isn't doping its own senses to do so; much in the same way poisons from a mosquito numb the flesh so we don't feel the bite.
Interestingly enough, it would seem that the pain from swelling could also be a function caused by the body as a whole, and not the injury itself. This could explain why the pain usually begins to go away once the injury begins healing.
I think that if you used a method to cause swelling as a way of treating injuries, you'd have to also incorporate some form of pain suppressant. There's probably biological reasons against this, though. I'm sure causing unnatural swelling could have serious side effects, such as blocked blood-vessels.
In the end, external solutions to immobilization are probably more economical, safer, and easier, than induced swelling techniques. |
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| Robbie |
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 9:03 am Post subject: |
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Hold on, swelling (inflammation) is characterised medically by five symptoms, kalor, dolor, rubor, tumor, functio lasae
(heat, pain, redness, swelling, loss of function.
If you're going to talk about inflammation you must accept that pain is an integral part of it.
Also, I should have pointed out inflammation is not always a form of healing. for example in rheumatoid arthritis inflammation at the joints is activvely destryoing the joints due to the immune system turning on itself. |
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| Wolf |
| Posted: Wed May 16, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: |
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Forum Lycanthrope
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To Robbie;
What do you think about the implications that 33 is suggesting, though? The use of medically-induced swelling to guard injuries? |
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| darthdodo |
| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 6:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Pain helps strengthen us, without it we would be weaklings. |
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| htmlmaster |
| Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2007 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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If we couldn't feel pain, we wouldn't realize that something was hurting ourselves. For instance, you wouldn't think of stabbing your hand with a knife, but if you couldn't feel pain, you wouldn't realize it was hurting you.
I actually heard an article about someone born with something wrong with his nervous system and he couldn't feel pain, the result was that he was hurting himself without realizing it.
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| Tony John C |
| Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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This is an interesting question. Traditionally inflammation has always been considered a bad thing. We have entire procedures to stop it. Lets think about it. If you google inflammation all you get is how to rid yoursel of it. But to induce swelling to stimulate a healing response is virtually new idea, as least as far as my knowledge goes. It makes sense for joint injuries and muscle injuries, though I doubt i would use it for a brain injury. =) It would be a very interesting study to do, if you find anything please send me a private message. I love to learn new things. Allows me to show off to my friends. j/k =D
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2007 4:08 am Post subject: |
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If i'm not mistaken, inflamation is an increase in bloodflow to an area. The increase in bloodflow brings extra white blood cells to defend against foreign material (bacteria, virusses) if the skin is broken. That much makes sense as far as the reason behind the bodies response. But why inflamation of damage under the skin? Maybe to persuade the animal to take it easy with the joint for it to be able to heal?
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| Uncomplicated Scientist |
| Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2007 11:58 am Post subject: |
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Inflammation is a razor thin and razor sharp double edged sword. It is important in healing and simultaneously can cause huge amounts of damage to the body. While sometimes its about pain, people largely try to decrease the amount of swelling because the damage that would be done to the body. Inflammation is thought to be an important component of many cancers, preceding the development of the malignant tumor. Inflammation is thought to be one of the preceding steps in the development of prostate cancer, for example.
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| 33 |
| Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2007 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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hello ,
There is actual a treamtent you can call it " alternative " if you like that has been reported to help heal injuries through this method , its called Prolotherapy .
This isnt new but a concept they even used as far as back as ancient Greece apparently.
That as far as I know is the only method that utilises this sort of approach , other than thermal shrinkage for surgery.
33 |
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| Massage Therapist |
| Posted: Tue Dec 18, 2007 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| In Australia there was one a very controversial practice of using electrical burns on race horses to assist in healing of joint injury. The theory being the inflamation would lead to scar tissue will help stabilize the joint. There was never any emperical evidence to support this painful practice and it is now illegal. |
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| DaBOB |
| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 12:08 am Post subject: Re: Why does pain have to be bad ? |
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| 33 wrote: |
| Given how inflammation is one fo the processes involved in healing I wonder why there has been no attempt to try and promote or use this as means of sub setting the choice of 2 evils i.e. having temporary pain at the expense of long term relief , instead of vice vesa. |
Love it. We have a saying: "Remember; Pain is weakness leaving the body."
It really is quite true in most cases. Pain is often a sign of healing. When you work out real hard the muscles get painful and grow stronger. In martial arts we train bone packing by (basically) hitting things really hard and very often. It hurts when your new at it; but as that body heals the bones grow stronger and the nerves more tolerant. Pain is there for a reason and there are few reasons why it should be taken away.
Just say no to ice packs and pain killers. "Embrace the pain and you will win this game." -Avi (film: Revolver)
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| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Thu Dec 20, 2007 2:38 pm Post subject: Re: Why does pain have to be bad ? |
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[quote="DaBOB"]
| 33 wrote: |
but as that body heals the bones grow stronger and the nerves more tolerant. Pain is there for a reason and there are few reasons why it should be taken away.
Just say no to ice packs and pain killers. "Embrace the pain and you will win this game." -Avi (film: Revolver) |
I used to do pressups (pre Karate workout) on a concrete floor on my knuckles. Instructor told us same thing re bearing the pain, to avoid future pain in that area in future.
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| 33 |
| Posted: Wed Feb 13, 2008 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Why does pain have to be bad ? |
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Forum Sophomore
Joined: 10 May 2007
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| DaBOB wrote: |
| 33 wrote: |
| Given how inflammation is one fo the processes involved in healing I wonder why there has been no attempt to try and promote or use this as means of sub setting the choice of 2 evils i.e. having temporary pain at the expense of long term relief , instead of vice vesa. |
Love it. We have a saying: "Remember; Pain is weakness leaving the body."
It really is quite true in most cases. Pain is often a sign of healing. When you work out real hard the muscles get painful and grow stronger. In martial arts we train bone packing by (basically) hitting things really hard and very often. It hurts when your new at it; but as that body heals the bones grow stronger and the nerves more tolerant. Pain is there for a reason and there are few reasons why it should be taken away.
Just say no to ice packs and pain killers. "Embrace the pain and you will win this game." -Avi (film: Revolver) |
Well the only trouble with that is your already in a good enough state to put your body through that in the first place i.e. you can control the pain by stopping unless less you get lucky and do something inbetween.
If you have shoulder instability, scapular wining , rsi , or perhaps all 3 I think youd find that exercise would not stop pain because although you can blot it out or transcend it as you describe you can not stop or reverse bad mechanics that result from an inherent weakness in the systems scaffolding i.e. tissue.
I agree though pain is there for a reason , but then pain can take on different forms too , titnitus is nothing like a cut but i vouch if you get it you'd trade.
Pain that attacks the sense or the foundations that support functions is far worse than just cut or some simple bruising and not easy to forget i.e because you depend on it to survive .
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