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| craterchains |
 Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 8:46 am Post subject: Why did Hitler exterminate people? |
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Why did Hitler exterminate people?
There are many opinions about why Hitler was exterminating so many millions of people. What are your views?
Mine are simple, he was trying to prevent the coming of those predicted to come with messages for mankind. Like Herod did to try to prevent the coming of Jesus. It is said that we are to expect one like Elijah, and there is the coming of the Two Witnesses. I say Hitler was trying to prevent their coming.
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| (Q) |
| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| spidergoat |
| Posted: Wed May 18, 2005 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| He blamed the Jews for failing to finance WWI, and trying to establish marxism, since many marxists were Jews, but most Jews weren't marxist. He also had some funny ideas about race. |
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| Starthane Xyzth |
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 3:35 am Post subject: |
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He believed he was acting in the best interests of human evolution, eliminating negative, inferior variants and qualities from the species as a whole.
Plus he - and his underlings who carried out the task of extermination - were just plain nasty, and having a what they considered a logical justification for murder meant they could thoroughly enjoy it.
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| Pendragon |
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 11:06 am Post subject: |
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| Starthane Xyzth wrote: |
| He believed he was acting in the best interests of human evolution, eliminating negative, inferior variants and qualities from the species as a whole. |
This may be an explanation of why the Nazi's murdered mentally ill people, but I wonder whether they really believed in the race theories. Maybe they wanted to canalise the anger of the German people, who were suffering a very severe economic depression and had just lost a worldwar. "why did we loose, why are we so poor? They did it.." |
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| spidergoat |
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 11:29 am Post subject: |
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Well, they didn't feel that spending money on the mentally ill was a good use of resources. It wasn't so much anger as, here is a problem, lets do the most efficient, proactive things to fix it. Modern Germans are the same way. It's hard to describe, but the same thing that makes them great engineers and planners can also be applied in a indifferent way to the task of mass murder. Anyone without deep cultural attachments to the homeland could possibly work against it's interests, so they must be eliminated.
As far as craterchain's theory, they would have known that prophecy would have foreknowledge about any attempts to circumvent it. In other words, you can't prevent a messiah from coming through mass murder, because it can just as easily be that event from which a messiah originates. It's like the paradox of time travel, can you go back and kill your grandfather and prevent yourself from being born? If so, then you wouldn't survive to go back in time, and therefore you couldn't have done it in the first place... |
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| invert_nexus |
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Here's an idea. Hitler exterminated people. He ostracized the Jews and the Slavs and the Gypsies and all the other "subhuman" races.
Because it... worked.
Now. I'm not judging the morality of his actions. Nor am I saying that the people were deserving of extermination or not. The fact is that they were, so why quibble over details?
The point is that Hitler dragged this nation that was one of the poorest nations in Europe. Whose economy was complete chaos. Whose people were lost and bewildered. Depressed and unmotivated.
And he turned this little country into the dominant world power within just a few years time.
He did it by unifying the people. By giving them enemies which they could blame for their troubles. And whether the jews were responsible or not is besides the point. Look at the results.
And, I don't mean the final results. Hitler made poor choices as well. The final defeat of Germany was not connected with the demonization of the Jews. The defeat of Germany was brought about by poor military planning.
The world needs a scapegoat. Give them one or they'll find one blindly. Hitler tapped into the forces underlying the mentality of the social. And he did it well. Hitler was a demagogue. And a good one. One of the best.
Don't judge him on morality. Judge him on results. At the very least, keep your judgements seperate. |
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| spidergoat |
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 11:56 am Post subject: |
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I don't think Hitler's success depended on having a scapegoat, (although it helped to keep everyone in fear of the punishment for dissent), but rather the remarkable effectiveness of fascism. Fascism works because it unites industry, labor, and mass media into a single machine under strong central control. Note that the US economy also boomed as a result of WWII.
| Quote: |
| He ostracized the Jews and the Slavs and the Gypsies and all the other subhuman races. |
I hope you don't really believe that these people are subhuman. |
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| invert_nexus |
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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I think that a common tactic of fascist governments is to scare them, not of punishment by the government, but of the reprisal of the dirty outsider. The Germans of Nazi Germany weren't scared of punishment by the government. I'm sure some were, but for the most part these people fell hook, line, and sinker for the nationalist stance.
To be a part of something, something else must be outside.
This is the way of things. And is the doom of globalism.
As to the subhuman issue.
I thought I made it clear, but upon rereading my post I realized that I forgot to quote subhuman. You must have started responding before my edit.
No. I don't see them as subhuman. Neither do I really see them as anything special. People die. Genocides happen. It's the way of things. |
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| craterchains |
| Posted: Thu May 19, 2005 9:20 pm Post subject: |
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Spidergoat, isn't it amazing that inadvertently Hitler actually helped the Jews get their homeland
and national title back by 1948? An actual fulfillment of a prophesy of Jesus, I find that terribly
ironic myself.
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| Perfect |
| Posted: Fri May 20, 2005 6:16 am Post subject: |
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The nexunator
| Quote: |
| The defeat of Germany was brought about by poor military planning |
The forgotten fact:
Russia sent 1.5 million troops to take over Finland - which was supposed to happen in two weeks, tops.
Finland’s population at the time was 3.5 million but was able to summon up an army of about 150 000 men with practically no armaments.
After about a hundred days later Finland had lost around 27 000 thousand men and russia around five to ten times more. 150 000 - 500 000. (Russian officials said 270 000 after the war).
At this point piece was signed.
And looking at the statistics Hitler concluded that his army would roll over the russians easily.
He hasted and underestimated like a fool because of this.
Hah, I find this funny - russia got (somewhat) fucked, as well as germany (somewhat).
Because of a few skiing snipers. |
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| Starthane Xyzth |
| Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| Perfect wrote: |
Hah, I find this funny - russia got (somewhat) fucked, as well as germany (somewhat).
Because of a few skiing snipers. |
Anyone else here play Sid Meier's Civilization II? Alpine Troop (skiiing infantry) are pretty formidable fighters in that game, especially where awkward terrains like mountains and forests are involved...
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| everneo |
| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Hitler f**ked up Germany first. Even before Nazis came to power Germans were already on the way of building a great nation recovering from the humilation of WWI defeat. Hitler exploited the German pride and patriotism and gave them back a monster - Mighty "Aryan Race" bullshit.
And gave the anti-semiticism a monsterous twist to justify 'final solution'.
Whoever stood on his way would be eliminated. Marshal Rommel, Admiral Canaris.. so many remarkable germans who tried to check this megalomanic went down fighting. Hitler,in no way, deserves a rational justification of "why he did". |
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| FieryIce |
| Posted: Mon May 23, 2005 7:35 am Post subject: |
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A pharaoh tried a similar exterminating to stop one from coming, that was Moses; this seems to be a well used tatic.
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| Starthane Xyzth |
| Posted: Wed May 25, 2005 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| everneo wrote: |
| Hitler f**ked up Germany first. Even before Nazis came to power Germans were already on the way of building a great nation recovering from the humilation of WWI defeat.. |
A great nation, whose banknotes were so worthless they could be used as confetti? I don't think Germans felt very optimistic during the Depression.
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