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| Infinitism |
 Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 2:21 pm Post subject: What if............................ |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 24 Feb 2008
Posts: 19
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Hi, here are 3 provocative scenarios that might bring a degree of chaos to the world or do nothing at all. Please feel free to answer all or any of them:
1. What would the public reaction be if one day humanity developed an AI equal to that of human level? Panic, or no reaction?
2. What would the world be like if almost everyone knew about the technological singularity coming in a few decades? Basically, if singularitarians went mainstream for some reason, and even the 'less intelligent' people of society started to learn what it was, what would happen?
3. What would happen if people gradually migrated into their own virtual realities(own dream worlds) and started spending more and more time in their tangible fantasies? What happens to family and relationships? Would there be a schism between people who believe this is 'not ethical' and those who do?
Scenarios 1 and 3 of course might not happen, but let's just assume that it is possible(always good to take once step in precaution). Let's not make this a debate about feasibility and try to discuss the consequences themselves.
And in Scenario 2, whether the people actually do think the singularity will happen or not is irrelevant. Just assume that they have heard about the prediction itself.
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| Pendragon |
| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Nederland
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2. Apparently I'm among the non-englighted ones who don't know what singularity is 
3. This is already happening. I know people who are wasting their chance to complete a study at the university because they're too busy playing world of warcraft.. Just a few weeks ago I did a group project, one of my colleagues was a WoW addict. He rarely showed up at meetings and eventually he failed to do his part of the assignment (without even telling us about it, he just dropped out). Later I heard he failed about 60% of the courses he enrolled in, while my study (Human Geography) really isn't that hard if you stick with the easiest courses (as he does). So here's a 22-24 year old guy who has the chance to get a great career and a good salary, but wastes it because of a computer game.. My guess: computer addicts will become a bigger problem in the near future than drug addicts, at least in terms of lost economic potential. |
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| CircularlyPolarized |
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 25 Feb 2008
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The singularity will occur when we create a machine intelligent enough to create machines even more intelligent than itself. Supposedly, after this point the technological development is unpredictable for a pre-singularity society.
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| Theoryofrelativity |
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 24 Jul 2006
Posts: 693
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Being of supreme intelligence I will tell you what the people will do in all
scenarios:
Some will start a blog about it
Some will read about in the news while eating cornflakes, then turn to page 3 (nude glamour pic)
Some will think of way to make money out of any fear mongering
On the whole though
Life will go on regardless, it always has and always will.
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| zinjanthropos |
| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 862
Location: Driving in my car
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| Pendragon wrote: |
My guess: computer addicts will become a bigger problem in the near future than drug addicts, at least in terms of lost economic potential. |
Do video games come with a health warning? |
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| bit4bit |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:44 am Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 478
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| I don't think we will see a 'technological singularity' in the next few decades. If such a thing does happen, I think it will be a very long time away. For the mean time, we have plenty of fresh science and engineering problems to be overcome. For number 3.) This is already the case in some people, as someone else said. |
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| Frenchi |
| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 20
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1) I for one welcome our new robot overlords.
2) See 1).
3) This has always been an interesting philosophical quandary for me (and many others before me I can be sure). Assuming that your dream-state is as structured as reality, what's the difference? This obviously doesn't apply to World of Warcraft, but let us say that science has provided for us a tube that a person can lay in, and enter an inactive neurological state in which your mind interfaces with a virtual world. For arguments sake, if this world could be sustained forever, and the person's basic biological necessities were not an issue, 'reality' is just the sum of stimulus to your brain. To you in your virtual world, the people you meet and the things you experience are 'real'. The only limiting factor would be how authentic of a 'dream state' the computer could provide to you. Having your mind immersed in a low-polygon WoW-esque world is obviously not as authentic as a Star-Trek Holodeck type fantasy.
This does, however, bring up the economic and biological issue once we take a step back from a perfect hypothetical situation. Lacking some sort of cyber-brain technology where one could shed his mortal body, human beings have a certain amount of necessity to sustain life: those that escape reality rely on the rest of society to sustain them. I dread the day I see Cyber Social Security for VR addicts.
To step back to 1) and 2) again, I don't see human-intelligence machines being too far off. I believe we could probably create one with the technology we have today; what's really preventing this is our limited applicable knowledge of how human intelligence and memory works. I myself have an integrated language construct I've been coding for several years, and my biggest hurdle was not lacking processing power or storage space, but my understanding of the thought process. I certainly don't claim to be the authority on virtual psychology, but I still have many unanswered questions after years of exhaustive research. I can only hope theres a crack-team of super-genius psychologist-computer-scientists working hard on creating my robot wife  |
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| Pendragon |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:08 am Post subject: |
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Location: Nederland
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| zinjanthropos wrote: |
| Pendragon wrote: |
My guess: computer addicts will become a bigger problem in the near future than drug addicts, at least in terms of lost economic potential. |
Do video games come with a health warning? |
There's usually a health warning for epilepsy, and maybe for RSI nowadays. But not for addiction as far as I know.
| Frenchi wrote: |
1) I for one welcome our new robot overlords.
2) See 1).
3) [..]
This does, however, bring up the economic and biological issue once we take a step back from a perfect hypothetical situation. Lacking some sort of cyber-brain technology where one could shed his mortal body, human beings have a certain amount of necessity to sustain life: those that escape reality rely on the rest of society to sustain them. I dread the day I see Cyber Social Security for VR addicts. |
Or the day we see cyber beggars..
The strange thing is that role playing games like WoW (if that's the closest thing to a VR dreamworld that we have today) are actually very boring, and yet people are already willing to pour hundreds of hours of their time into them. I'll just admit that I've played a trial version of WoW for about 3 days in a rainy weekend, nobody is perfect Most of the time people are just waiting or doing repetitive tasks. Like clicking on a 'gold mine' ("mining") for 10 minutes until finally their digital piece of gold comes out, and then repeating ten times so they can buy their digital sword or so. Apparently it's so boring that some clever kids are now outsourcing it to China..
My point is that even a boring, low-poligon dreamworld can already make millions of people invest many hundreds of hours of their time into it. So when a real VR dreamworld as you described is created people will probably queue for it.
| Frenchi wrote: |
| I can only hope theres a crack-team of super-genius psychologist-computer-scientists working hard on creating my robot wife |
But why would your robowife need super-genius brain capacity and linguistic ability? Isn't it enough if she can cook and clean and nod 'yes' when you speak to her?  |
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| bit4bit |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:19 am Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 478
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Infinitism have you seen The Matrix? This thread is bordering on those ideas.  I more-a-less agree with what Pendragon said. |
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| Selene |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 843
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
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| Pendragon wrote: |
2. Apparently I'm among the non-englighted ones who don't know what singularity is
3. This is already happening. I know people who are wasting their chance to complete a study at the university because they're too busy playing world of warcraft.. Just a few weeks ago I did a group project, one of my colleagues was a WoW addict. He rarely showed up at meetings and eventually he failed to do his part of the assignment (without even telling us about it, he just dropped out). Later I heard he failed about 60% of the courses he enrolled in, while my study (Human Geography) really isn't that hard if you stick with the easiest courses (as he does). So here's a 22-24 year old guy who has the chance to get a great career and a good salary, but wastes it because of a computer game.. My guess: computer addicts will become a bigger problem in the near future than drug addicts, at least in terms of lost economic potential. |
I agree. Computer games are threatening the intelligence of our species.
My son is a WoW fan, and he happily cooperates whenever i restrict him and ban it (which is often!) because he knows how easy he could become addicted to it.
Now he has to earn time on the computer which is restricted to no more than 45 mins a day.
If i didn't do this i know i would lose him to this bladdy game.
Lots of parents aren't bothered because it keeps them quiet and out of apparent trouble.
Yet ironically these games are trouble!
As for the rest of the threats. I think it's rubbish! Sci-fi fantasy 
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| paralith |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 959
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| bit4bit wrote: |
| I don't think we will see a 'technological singularity' in the next few decades. If such a thing does happen, I think it will be a very long time away. |
Actually, it's probably not as far as you think. Technology tends to progress in an exponential fashion; the more you learn and implement, the faster you can reach the next level of complexity, and so on. I would not be surprised if we reached singularity in our lifetimes.
I view video games as any other pleasurable activity - if you lack self control, you can become obsessed with it. The same goes for alcoholism and recreational drug use (not the really highly addictive ones, though, that's a little different). If you can control your usage, I see no problem with the activity itself. The problem is, a lot of people lack the self control.
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Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
~Jean-Paul Sartre
Monkeys in Clothes - hosted by SFN blogs |
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| Infinitism |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 24 Feb 2008
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| Basically, I believe that there is going to be a lot of nihilism in the next few decades. Why even try to live a 'perfect' life in this world, when you can have the ability to live in your own? |
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| sakudo-no-hane |
| Posted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: Re: What if............................ |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 3
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| Infinitism wrote: |
1. What would the public reaction be if one day humanity developed an AI equal to that of human level? Panic, or no reaction?
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This issue raises a lot of ethical implications especially for the religious sector of society. If this AI's self-consciousness becomes equal to that of a human being, it could re-define the identity of humanity in general. What differentiates humans from mere animals (as some theorists say) is intelligence. An AI, by itself, is already a "being" because it is self-conscious.
I would think that, initially, people will panic when an AI exhibits intelligence equal to a human beings or more possibly even greater. I personally would say YES to AI development because (again) it would re-define the identity of humanity. I believe that after some time, there would no longer be any distinction as to whether a BEING is AI or HUMAN but rather an evolution of Humanity in general. That is to say, if such a distinction disappears and a fusion (so to speak) of the AI and the Human beings. I believe that the brain-computer interface and cyberkinetics would result to this.
| Infinitism wrote: |
2. What would the world be like if almost everyone knew about the technological singularity coming in a few decades? Basically, if singularitarians went mainstream for some reason, and even the 'less intelligent' people of society started to learn what it was, what would happen?
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I like to think of the singlularity of humanity somewhat similar to a supercomputer. *cough*
I also like to think that all problems stem from various root causes in which lack of communication is one. If everyone's thought are singular, there wouldn't be any more conflicts whether socially or politically. It's because everyone's thought would be the same. Just imagine, billions of brain power utilized to its full extent and solving all sorts of problems whether in the medical field or whatever. But then again, singularity has no room for individuality. It would no longer be you, me, him, or her but rather US. But personally, if this is defined as human evolution, I would say YES! This society would actually be utopian in the sense of singularity of thought, action, and status.
Most people would probably not want this singluar society and may not even be possible if left on the hands of humans themselves though.. Human nature has already proven that through history. But then again, if humanity's future were to be left on the hands of an AI, I don't think people would be happy about that. Hence the many critics to cyberkinetics..
| Infinitism wrote: |
3. What would happen if people gradually migrated into their own virtual realities(own dream worlds) and started spending more and more time in their tangible fantasies? What happens to family and relationships? Would there be a schism between people who believe this is 'not ethical' and those who do?
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Social face-to-face interaction is important to both cognitive and social development of a person. I agree with what the others posted above. This sort of "retreat" from reality and into a virtual world is very much prevalent and I myself have once been obsessed with an online RPG. I once become obsessed because, within a virtual world I could do anything I wanted-- things that I couldn't do in reality and it actually made me happy. I was quite crushed when I got hacked though...
Again, face-to-face interactions are important but this notion is based on the fact that we still (and yes, I'm using the term "still") living in a physical world and social activities are part of our daily lives. But looking at the future, I believe that somehow, a certain breakthrough in technology that will result in humanity's interconnectedness will address face-to-face interactions with little relevance. It's inevitable.. |
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| Infinitism |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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| In a way, it's alarming to see the number of people who automatically shoot down the concept of transhumanism especially when they first hear of it. |
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| Selene |
| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 843
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
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| Pendragon wrote: |
But why would your robowife need super-genius brain capacity and linguistic ability? Isn't it enough if she can cook and clean and nod 'yes' when you speak to her? |
GASP (shapt intake of breath)...........FACE REDDENS.... 
.........exhale...... 
I didn't realise you had such an arid sense of humour Pendragon
What would a 'robo-husbands' functions require i wonder?.............?...... ......mmm......... ......?.................let's see now.........................?.............................?....................?.........................
.....
AAAAAH!!!
We already have them!
They're called 'Vibrators!'
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The Ape will always mock the scribe, for in his very words the truth will hide.
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