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| maximg |
 Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 8:01 pm Post subject: Too much terminator |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 26 Sep 2006
Posts: 31
Location: Melbourne, Australia
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Having been thoroughly enjoying the new terminator series I have repeatedly been thinking about a few questions and was hoping I could throw a few ideas around this forum.
Is seed AI the only real precursor to a machine such as described in the terminator series?
If so, how far away are we from obtaining a first seed AI?
From what I understand we are essentially at a brick wall! Maybe someone more informed could comment?
If we were to build an intelligent program that could learn, self optimize and then recompile wouldnât it still be limited by the amount of available processing power and therefore singularity (âas it is describedâ) wouldnât happen overnight and in fact could take a substantial period of time?
Why is there an assumption that the program/being, would feel threatened by us and in the process become hostile? To me it logically occurs that any being that is significantly more intelligent/enlightened than a human would naturally evolve to a âdocileâ and ânon violentâ creature.
As we humans are evolving it seems as though we do tend to become less violent. Look at the Aztecs who lived only 400-500 years ago.
Finally, does it not seem that even if we were able to create such a machine we would never put it in control of the worldâs nuclear arsenal? What benefits could be obtained from doing that anyway?
Would love to hear some thoughts.
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 10:05 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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Location: Nashville, TN USA
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Actually we were able to simulate half a mouse brain... running at one-tenth the speed mouse brains are capable of... for 10 seconds... adding up to 1 second of half a mouse brain's worth of thought. All this using the most powerful supercomputer on the face of the planet!!!!
We have a long way to go, but hey! in 18 months we should have the ability to simulate a full mouse brain for 20 seconds running at one-fifth the speed of a real mouse according to Moores Law!
Progress!!! |
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| maximg |
| Posted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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Location: Melbourne, Australia
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lol, I love the description.
Wouldnât you consider the Robocup as a good example of what we can do? And surely to achieve those results we require a program that is smarter than a mouse? Maybe I am overestimating it...
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"THE ULTIMATE MEASURE OF A MAN IS NOT WHERE HE STANDS IN MOMENTS OF COMFORT
AND CONVENIENCE, BUT WHERE HE STANDS AT TIMES OF CHALLENGE AND CONTROVERSY."
Dr. Martin Luther King Jr |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 4:46 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 3320
Location: England, UK.
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| SuperNatendo wrote: |
Actually we were able to simulate half a mouse brain... running at one-tenth the speed mouse brains are capable of... for 10 seconds... adding up to 1 second of half a mouse brain's worth of thought. All this using the most powerful supercomputer on the face of the planet!!!!
We have a long way to go, but hey! in 18 months we should have the ability to simulate a full mouse brain for 20 seconds running at one-fifth the speed of a real mouse according to Moores Law!
Progress!!! |
Don't undersestimate them.
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"Victory is in trying. Defeat is in not". - SVRDW. |
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| sion 1/2 |
| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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A computer could be created that has the processing power of a terminator but probably it would have to be a quantum computer. so it could do complex logic calculations fast. but still even if a computer has an OS that allows in to act like a Hyman it still has to follow primary decisions. to mack a computer have free will you would need some monster software. and something more intelligent than a Hyman would surely have better things to do than destroy the world.
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| CShark |
| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 08 May 2008
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Location: East Coast of Canada
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| Interesting idea! Reminds me of the argument concerning the Star Trek transporter. They say we have the theoretical ability to built a transporter, and actually have 'beamed' an atom from one place to another. The only thing stopping us from going further is computing power. Imagine having to store the precise position of every sub-atomic particle in your body, relative to each both in space and time, at a given fraction of a nano-second! Better start networking boys! [/code] |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
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Location: Nashville, TN USA
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Well, digital computers running software that allows AI might not be the answer...
It seems the new memristors may allow analog computers that will be hardware programmed. These "memristors" allow for more than just a one or zero value and can simulate real neurons. I think this is the future of AI, a sort of analog/digital hybrid computer.
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:43 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
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| SuperNatendo wrote: |
Well, digital computers running software that allows AI might not be the answer...
It seems the new memristors may allow analog computers that will be hardware programmed. These "memristors" allow for more than just a one or zero value and can simulate real neurons. I think this is the future of AI, a sort of analog/digital hybrid computer. |
Of course if this was to be the way to go, we'd have to hardwire the "Three Laws of Robotics" a la Isaak Asimov into them! Then we won't have any Terminator-like problems.
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"Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan
As jy dom is, moet jy kak. |
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| maximg |
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 9:18 am Post subject: |
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That very interesting SuperNatendo, so what your basically talking about is hardware based neuralnets, is that correct?
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"THE ULTIMATE MEASURE OF A MAN IS NOT WHERE HE STANDS IN MOMENTS OF COMFORT
AND CONVENIENCE, BUT WHERE HE STANDS AT TIMES OF CHALLENGE AND CONTROVERSY."
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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exactly. Memristors are not bound to ones and zeros, they can hold values other than on or off. This is very much like neurons.
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| Pong |
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
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| I thought neurons are boolean: on or off, all or nothing. Just like our artificial binary logic. I think the only way neural impulses can do "maybe" is if you're reading frequency of impulses... but that's still digital not analog. |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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Neurons are not Boolean, that is why when simulating the mouse brain they had to simulate a neural net. If neurons were Boolean, they could just program neural nets at the hardware level using transistors, thus simulating a mouse brain at 100% the speed.
This WILL be possible using memristors which do not need to follow Boolean logic.
When something is programmable at a hardware level, it is said to be analog, when it is programmable on the software level, THAT is digital.
Digital information is stored using a series of ones and zeros. No digital information has, in the past, been able to store multiple values on a single element of a circuit before now.
Maybe what is Analogue and what is Digital needs to be re-defined
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| DivideByZero |
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Junior
Joined: 02 Dec 2007
Posts: 250
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| KALSTER wrote: |
| SuperNatendo wrote: |
Well, digital computers running software that allows AI might not be the answer...
It seems the new memristors may allow analog computers that will be hardware programmed. These "memristors" allow for more than just a one or zero value and can simulate real neurons. I think this is the future of AI, a sort of analog/digital hybrid computer. |
Of course if this was to be the way to go, we'd have to hardwire the "Three Laws of Robotics" a la Isaak Asimov into them! Then we won't have any Terminator-like problems. |
Haven't you read or seen the movie "I, Robot"?
The three laws of robotics ends up creating a protest by the robots.
I think the robots should just follow the same laws we follow and thats all. No extra laws... Just the supreme law of the land followed by both humans and robots. |
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| Pong |
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
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| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| Neurons are not Boolean |
They really are, uncannily so. A nerve/neuron "fires" (1) or doesn't (0). It must be stimulated beyond a certain threshold to fire, then it fires in a perfectly predictable consistent fashion, then it recharges, then it may fire again if sufficiently stimulated. A neuron is built to resist analog signals. It doesn't do fuzzy logic. Just binary: ones and zeros.
Memristors may be a good shortcut to AI but they don't mimic our neurons so well as a the transistors in a cheap calculator do.
Moreover, our very senses are digital. Our nerves, are neurons same as grey matter, just stretched out. We've got some neat devices at the ends to bonk them with, also digital. For example a light sensitive molecule that flips one way, or the other. On or off. A multitude of these, with different filters, can approximate a scene before our eyes.
| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| When something is programmable at a hardware level, it is said to be analog, when it is programmable on the software level, THAT is digital. |
The usual distinction is, analog is a continuous range of meaningful values (a rheostat tuning knob), digital is made of stark on/off states (a collection of neurons blinking). |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:22 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
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Location: Nashville, TN USA
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Wikipedia:
The artificial neuron receives one or more inputs (representing the one or more dendrites) and sums them to produce an output (synapse)
Doesn't sound like boolean logic to me! I'm pretty sure the values of our independent neurons give more information than just on or off.
Here is a link to a wiki article about dendrites, it plainly shows that neurons handle more than 1 or 0 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrite
Also, neurons operate on both electrical and chemical signals, this alone requires them to be handle multiple values. Before memristors, we could not envision any single circuit component as complex as the neurons. Memristors are the only thing that came close and until a few weeks ago were completely hypothetical.
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