| Would you vote for a white man who's pastor made racist remarks frequently? |
| Yes |
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37% |
[ 3 ] |
| No |
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62% |
[ 5 ] |
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| Total Votes : 8 |
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| Author |
Message
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| SuperNatendo |
 Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:45 pm Post subject: Obama's Pastor |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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For those of you not in the states, there is a huge debate over obama and his controversial pastor.
I would like to ask,
If a white man was running for president, and tapes sold by the church he attends showed the candidate's pastor and friend of twenty years making racist comments, not just once or twice, but multiple times over the years, and the candidate condemns his pastor once the tapes make headline news, and claims he did not hear these comments in person, yet he still maintains a close friendship with the pastor, would you still vote for the candidate?
_________________
“It’s no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.” - Mark Twain
Last edited by SuperNatendo on Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:22 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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| jackson33 |
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1190
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Its not just for what the pastor has said, the fact its anti-American in nature or that the old Chicago 'Black Power' has resurfaced, but that Obama has given the credit for bringing him to Christianity, lied about the issue to begin with and now thrown his own Mother under the bus. If the person who raised him (his Grandmother), leaned so far one way, how could some one so far the opposite (pastor) in philosophy, convince him. What was his philosophical leaning to allow this? It almost had to be an anti-american attitude to begin with...this would then beg the question, what influence did the his Dad, three Muslim Brothers and a most certain understanding of the Muslim culture, play.
If a White Man, was at any point in his life a member of the KKK, advocated superiority of any race, or had professed a general understanding of a good in those that do or their ideas...Then no, I could not vote for him/her... |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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| jackson33 wrote: |
Its not just for what the pastor has said, the fact its anti-American in nature or that the old Chicago 'Black Power' has resurfaced, but that Obama has given the credit for bringing him to Christianity, lied about the issue to begin with and now thrown his own Mother under the bus. If the person who raised him (his Grandmother), leaned so far one way, how could some one so far the opposite (pastor) in philosophy, convince him. What was his philosophical leaning to allow this? It almost had to be an anti-american attitude to begin with...this would then beg the question, what influence did the his Dad, three Muslim Brothers and a most certain understanding of the Muslim culture, play.
If a White Man, was at any point in his life a member of the KKK, advocated superiority of any race, or had professed a general understanding of a good in those that do or their ideas...Then no, I could not vote for him/her... |
Jackson, all im asking is what i posted, you go a little further than I intend to go, though you may not be all wrong. I'm just asking a simple question, I don't care what his muslim father or brothers have to do with this in the least, Mainly because I'm afraid others will start missing the point. Also because Obama is not the person who said these things, but his good friend and pastor of 20 years.
All I'm asking is: If a white man was running for president, and tapes sold by the church he attends showed the candidate's pastor and friend of twenty years making racist comments, not just once or twice, but multiple times over the years, would you still vote for the candidate?
Yes or No?
I am also assuming that the white man responds the same way as obama, condemns his pastor's comments and claims he never heard it in person, yet keeps close ties with his friend and pastor.
Not bashing you or anything, I just want to keep this thread a little more simple than the implications you added to it. Again, I am just afraid that others will start missing the point, and start arguing about whether Obama is Muslim or not.
_________________
“It’s no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.” - Mark Twain |
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| jackson33 |
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 10 Oct 2006
Posts: 1190
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I understand you thought, but feel the question is unanswerable. IMO, voting for anyone is not a race issue. In his 'speech' response the other day, he reversed, never hearing in person. Also I did not say Obama was a Muslim, but maybe an influence in his life which led to this problem for him.
This is a response to your response, will not respond again and sorry, you feel I have messed up your poll...Was not intential... |
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| free radical |
| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
Posts: 449
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| It seems odd that religion is given as much press in the states as it is. Don't yanks have more important issues to consider? |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:15 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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It is not so much a religious issue as it is the fact that Obama, in candidacy for president, is close friends with his pastor and considers this man an important influence to his life, and this man is racist and has used hate speech during his friendship with the candidate. It makes you question the integrity and character of a man who is a close friend to an outspoken racist!
If you notice, the only thing I am changing between the real situation and the one I have proposed is the color of their skin. I want to see if people think obama and his pastor should be treated any differently. If a candidate was white, and his white pastor and close friend had directed comments toward a different ethnicity using similar words that Obama's pastor has directed towards whites, I would think that not very many people would vote for that candidate.
Jackson, I am not accusing you of messing up my poll! I just wanted to clarify the meaning of this thread so that my intentions were made a little more clear! Feel free to vote and comment, but I was only trying to make sure my intentions for this thread were understood.
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“It’s no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.” - Mark Twain |
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| sunshinewarrior |
| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:34 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 940
Location: London
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Supernat, as an UKian I have no locus standi on this matter, but I get your point and I think it's a valid one. It's just that in the dirty world of politics some people are desperate for any mud flung at Obama to stick.
Many USian politicians have got away with much worse in the past (as have UKian ones too), so in that context this is a ridiculous storm in a teacup, but there you have it.
You didn't expect the US to get its first non-white president without putting up a damn good fight now did you?  |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:44 am Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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I just don't think we should vote by the color of a candidates skin. Just because he is the first black candidate with a good chance of winning doesn't mean we should let stuff like this slide! We wouldn't let it slide if he was white, why let it slide because he's black? I would not mind having a black president. I just believe he would have done better to have broken ties with such a hateful, racist man! I don't buy the whole "I never heard it personally", He had to have at least heard SOMETHING from second-hand witnesses!
If I were going to be racist I would have a Native American be president, since that is MY ethnic background, but I wouldn't expect people to vote for him if he was close friends for 20 years with a racist Native American who he considered a spiritual guide!
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“It’s no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.” - Mark Twain |
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| medlakeguy |
| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 9:57 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Sophomore
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Posts: 123
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to answer the question, yes i would be and am angry when white people say the same things about blacks
the problem is that were not all equal, blacks in this country are in a lot worse place than whites and they have the right to be angry |
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| Crim50nredd |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 8
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I voted yes.
Why?
Well, put it this way. The pastor was considered an uncle to Obama. They were close and that man gave Obama hope in Christianity. They are close.
So it would be hard for someone to just abandon a close friend, even if he is crazy. A quote from Obama himself went something like this..."He's like a crazy old uncle, sometimes he says things that you dont agree with, but you still love him."
I can understand that. It is wrong what the pastor says, but really...what everyone should be thinking is..
Well Obama himself never said this, so he doesnt believe it. He has condemned the pastor's words himself. That is all you can beleive.
Besides, religion and church should have no bearing on matters like this. |
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| icewendigo |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 378
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The remarks of a pastor of a CFR Candidate financed by wallstreet who says nuking a country (for facricated reasons) is on the table (creating a nightmare of slaughter with incalculable repercutions on the world stage), would have as much effect on my opinion as learning which brand of chewing gum he enjoys
This being said, I only saw one clip of the pastor, and when you hear the sermon from which the clip was taken, you conclude that the clip was taken out of context and was repeated to mislead the american public as surely as if they had just lied right out. Im not a fan of Obama but Clinton's far worst, not to mention that she and the Media are blatant liers (imo McCain's a warmongering basketcase) |
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| daytonturner |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 03 Oct 2005
Posts: 897
Location: Beautiful Pacific Northwest, USA
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I think you are missing the more objectionable anti-American comments Wright made. "God damn America," for example. My feeling is that Obama cannot have sat through 20 years of that kind of sentiment without it having had some kind of influence. The racist comments, while objectionable, are not as condemnable as the anti-American comments.
But to answer the question, I would be reluctant to vote for anyone, black or white, Rep. or Dem., male or female who agreed with this kind of talk. Obama probably distanced himself enough that this issue will not be a determining factor for the Democratic nomination. It may, however, jump up bite him in the ass in the presidential election.
However, in the now extremely polarized political atmosphere of the U.S. those who favor Obama probably will not switch to Hillary nor will Hillary advocates switch to Obama over this. In fact, a lot of Obama people say they will vote republican if Hillary is nominated while a lot of Hillary people claim they will vote republican if Obama is elected.
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If God DID do all of this, is He not the greatest scientist of all? -- dt, 2005 |
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| Crim50nredd |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 12:17 am Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 8
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| daytonturner wrote: |
I think you are missing the more objectionable anti-American comments Wright made. "God damn America," for example. My feeling is that Obama cannot have sat through 20 years of that kind of sentiment without it having had some kind of influence. The racist comments, while objectionable, are not as condemnable as the anti-American comments.
But to answer the question, I would be reluctant to vote for anyone, black or white, Rep. or Dem., male or female who agreed with this kind of talk. Obama probably distanced himself enough that this issue will not be a determining factor for the Democratic nomination. It may, however, jump up bite him in the ass in the presidential election.
However, in the now extremely polarized political atmosphere of the U.S. those who favor Obama probably will not switch to Hillary nor will Hillary advocates switch to Obama over this. In fact, a lot of Obama people say they will vote republican if Hillary is nominated while a lot of Hillary people claim they will vote republican if Obama is elected. |
I told myself I would vote republican if hillary makes it to the general election. I am still hoping for Obama.
Your completely correct. |
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| Orleander |
| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 25 Mar 2008
Posts: 90
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I thought he made remarks against America and considering he grew up during segregation i can understand.
What racist anti-white remarks has he made? |
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| icewendigo |
| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 378
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| Quote: |
| What racist anti-white remarks has he made? |
I dont know about those, but I would caution anyone about taking comments at face value if you dont hear the whole conversation before and after the comment, I have seen a clip that was utterly misleading when you saw it out of context |
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