| Author |
Message
|
| 33 |
 Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 9:00 pm Post subject: Is it possible to create anything " original " ? |
 |
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 128
|
Given most art is deviation of some idea or concept that existed before it I wonder how likely it is to create anything original ?
Im thinking mainly in terms of characters you might see in film , that are instantly recognisble as an archetype unto itself i.e. literally a new classification altogether such as Darth Vader was in terms of villan when he first appeared .
Also ,what elements do you think make this work i.e. is Papaltine more relevant / popular and as result a archtype of todays embodiement of evil than he was 20 years since Bush adminstration appeared ?
Would darth vader be as successful if he looked different , and how does that lend to the character itself ?
_________________
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| Demen Tolden |
| Posted: Wed Feb 06, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Senior
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 387
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
|
Is art exclusively a somewhat material manifestation of a feeling? If so then the only way to create something that has never been created in some way, shape, or form is to either create something from a feeling that no human being has ever before manifested, or have an entirely new feeling that has never been felt before. However I would think that in the latter case that that type of art could not be popular unless suddenly everyone had this new feeling that had never been felt before.
I think this is all kind of nuts though. As far as I know human beings have been around for thousands of years which makes the former an almost non existant possibility. As for the latter I think a person that thought themself to fall into this type of situation to just be blinded by pride.
This idea is a good idea though, the idea to strive for originality, for uniquness. It can help to keep us motivated and accomplish great things.
I read, 33, that you had some Joe Campbell and Bill Moyer quotes on a different thread, and now with the George Lucas. I believe that somewhere in the first 100 pages of Joeseph Campbell's book, Hero of a Thousand Faces, when he begins talking about what a hero's story is to a particular culture, he writes about this. I wish I had the book laying around here somewhere so I could give the exact quote...
_________________
Emotions are contagious, and passions create room for ignorance. Please treat others with kindness so that we can all understand each other and are not waylaid by needless hostility. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| 33 |
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 7:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 128
|
| Demen Tolden wrote: |
Is art exclusively a somewhat material manifestation of a feeling? If so then the only way to create something that has never been created in some way, shape, or form is to either create something from a feeling that no human being has ever before manifested, or have an entirely new feeling that has never been felt before. However I would think that in the latter case that that type of art could not be popular unless suddenly everyone had this new feeling that had never been felt before.
I think this is all kind of nuts though. As far as I know human beings have been around for thousands of years which makes the former an almost non existant possibility. As for the latter I think a person that thought themself to fall into this type of situation to just be blinded by pride.
This idea is a good idea though, the idea to strive for originality, for uniquness. It can help to keep us motivated and accomplish great things.
I read, 33, that you had some Joe Campbell and Bill Moyer quotes on a different thread, and now with the George Lucas. I believe that somewhere in the first 100 pages of Joeseph Campbell's book, Hero of a Thousand Faces, when he begins talking about what a hero's story is to a particular culture, he writes about this. I wish I had the book laying around here somewhere so I could give the exact quote... |
Well it describes the process of creating recreating the myths but its trying to re-interpt that, thats difficult.
Darth Vader is galatic bad guy no 1 and just because of how he acts or the themes , but his look as well.
I suppose its being first to create a character that fills these representations or templates in way that works in pyschology , look and story.
Im not sure as well that its possible to have counter females version of these established archeypes , would it be possible to have sort of galatic evil queen for example ?
Vader himself covers so many different elements .
You could argue hes undead like lich
Hes a robot who can do magick i.e. use the force
A mutated human
An avenging angel
The shadow
The anti hero
etc etc
and theres the armour
the light saber itself which was a first
the helmet which uses military gas mask concept design
and the grid mouth like prison in the form of triangle i.e. pyramid
a samurai helmet
the token bad guys cape
the respirator box on his chest
Im not sure there is or they'll ever be a better modern day example of a character, forget harry potter , whose appeal I never really understood ( boy wizard ) he aint got shit on Vader..
I havent seen anything else that comes close
_________________
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Demen Tolden |
| Posted: Fri Feb 08, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Senior
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
Posts: 387
Location: St. Paul, Minnesota, USA
|
What about Cthulhu?
_________________
Emotions are contagious, and passions create room for ignorance. Please treat others with kindness so that we can all understand each other and are not waylaid by needless hostility. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Selene |
| Posted: Sat Feb 09, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 843
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
|
YES!
Words, sayings phrases.........
Youth culture is always making new phrases words and slang........
I have a huge dictionary of words made up by Shakespeare.
Jabberwocky
_________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The Ape will always mock the scribe, for in his very words the truth will hide.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| 33 |
| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 7:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 128
|
| Demen Tolden wrote: |
| What about Cthulhu? |
Thats older than Star Wars ..
Hardly original , have you read the Necronomicon ?
_________________
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Selene |
| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 843
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
|
| 33 wrote: |
| Demen Tolden wrote: |
| What about Cthulhu? |
Thats older than Star Wars ..
Hardly original , have you read the Necronomicon ? |
Necronomicon?
Hardly original either.
Also older than star wars
_________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The Ape will always mock the scribe, for in his very words the truth will hide.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| 33 |
| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:10 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 128
|
| Selene wrote: |
| 33 wrote: |
| Demen Tolden wrote: |
| What about Cthulhu? |
Thats older than Star Wars ..
Hardly original , have you read the Necronomicon ? |
Necronomicon?
Hardly original either.
Also older than star wars |
That depends which version your reading 
_________________
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Selene |
| Posted: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 843
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
|
| 33 wrote: |
| Selene wrote: |
| 33 wrote: |
| Demen Tolden wrote: |
| What about Cthulhu? |
Thats older than Star Wars ..
Hardly original , have you read the Necronomicon ? |
Necronomicon?
Hardly original either.
Also older than star wars |
That depends which version your reading |
Really, i'd be interested to know what version you are reading.
_________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The Ape will always mock the scribe, for in his very words the truth will hide.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| 33 |
| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 1:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 128
|
| Selene wrote: |
| 33 wrote: |
| Selene wrote: |
| 33 wrote: |
| Demen Tolden wrote: |
| What about Cthulhu? |
Thats older than Star Wars ..
Hardly original , have you read the Necronomicon ? |
Necronomicon?
Hardly original either.
Also older than star wars |
That depends which version your reading |
Really, i'd be interested to know what version you are reading. |
That makes two of us then...
_________________
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Selene |
| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 2:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 843
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
|
It appears to me 33 that you are on this forum not to contribute to the debates or put anything intelligible into the pot.
Instead you ramble with elusive psycho-riddles, meaningless questions and banal comments that achieve nothing and go nowhere.
Some people seem to like to paint themselves as mysterious either because they are afraid of knowing themselves, or afraid others might get to know them because they are afraid to find out who they really are or they are lost in some kind of meandering mindless labrynth?
_________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
The Ape will always mock the scribe, for in his very words the truth will hide.
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| 33 |
| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 9:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 10 May 2007
Posts: 128
|
| Selene wrote: |
It appears to me 33 that you are on this forum not to contribute to the debates or put anything intelligible into the pot.
Instead you ramble with elusive psycho-riddles, meaningless questions and banal comments that achieve nothing and go nowhere.
Some people seem to like to paint themselves as mysterious either because they are afraid of knowing themselves, or afraid others might get to know them because they are afraid to find out who they really are or they are lost in some kind of meandering mindless labrynth? |
" He who bends to himself a joy
Doth the winged life destroy;
But he who kisses Joy as it flies
Lives in eternitys sunrise "
_________________
"When a true genius appears in this world, you may know him by this sign, that the dunces are all in confederacy against him." - Jonathan Swift |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| wallaby |
| Posted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 11:15 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Professor
Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 1375
Location: Australia
|
"with responses ever so vague
detailing her sanitys' plague;
forever shrouded in mystery
that troublesome thirty-three." |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
