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| jacketate |
 Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:07 pm Post subject: Human behaviour it's all in nature |
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I watch quite a lot of science programmes and read quite a lot of ideas on animal and human behaviour.
Some people seem to believe that all human instincts can be shown in the behaviour of animals. for example choosing a mate, or doing whats best for the individual and the grup etc.
but i don't believe this too be true, i think that as humans we are completely isolated from the animals. our highly developed brain yes retains our ancestors instincts but i think our ability to analyse and make moral decisions sets us apart completely from animals and nothing of what we do can be shown in the animal kingdom.
i'm probably going to get flamed for this post but its just my opinion on the matter.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds reasonable, made of exactly the same stuff, evolved in exactly the same way almost identical in appearance all the same habits, identical physiology and repro systems, but totally isolated. Yeah no connection at all.
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| paralith |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'm no expert yet, but the evolution of primate and human behavior is my particular interest, and I've been applying to grad schools to get a PhD in this field. From what I currently know, I would say that humans are more affected by their genes and their "instincts" then they realize on a day to day basis. The influences of these factors are of course not conscious, and usually function through emotional reactions and gut feelings that people feel all day every day.
It is very likely that we have a greater degree of conscious control over our behavior than most other animals, but the exact level of difference between us and other animals really remains to be seen. My educated guess would be that the difference is not nearly as great as you make it out to be. Along the lines of what Megabrain said, when you compare human behavioral trends and brain structures to those of other animals, you find a great, great deal of similarity.
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Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
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| jacketate |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:00 pm Post subject: |
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Sounds reasonable, made of exactly the same stuff, evolved in exactly the same way almost identical in appearance all the same habits, identical physiology and repro systems, but totally isolated. Yeah no connection at all.
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Yes i admit that humans do have the natural instincts that animals posses, however as paralith said. we have a greater degree of conscious control over our behavior than most other animals.
I think this control is enough to overcome natural instinct, at a primary level at least. Sub consciusly it is plausible that instincts come into play.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Human behaviour it's all in nature |
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| jacketate wrote: |
Some people seem to believe that all human instincts can be shown in the behaviour of animals. for example choosing a mate, or doing whats best for the individual and the grup etc.
but i don't believe this too be true, i think that as humans we are completely isolated from the animals.. |
I read this that you are suggesting that human instincts are somehow completely different from animal instincts, have I mis interpreted you post?
THen in your second post you seem to have watered it down to just some trait of human consciousness. |
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| jacketate |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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Yes sorry you misinterpreted it, it is my fault for not phrasing it particularly well.
I am saying that although we may share the same instincts as the animals we evolved from, the greater conscious control we have means we can resist these instincts and thus just saying natural instincts is perhaps a poor way of interpreting human behavious
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Human instincts are animal instincts, however human behaviour is different. Instinct controls/influences behaviour in both animals and humans but humans have a veto over instincts which usually works.
Our instinct may be to attack/injure/maim or even kill a person who has in some way harmed us yet most of us would not actually kill, if we are hungry we do not go and slay the nearest none human or tear up the nearest plants.
It's is my earnest belief that we truly have an angel and a devil one on each shoulder but that they represent our animal instinct and our civilised 'side' thus we may like the idea of stealing a cake when hungry but we show self restraint, whereas a rapist or murderer 'listens' to the wrong 'shoulder', no I do not think it is fear of punishment that restrains us, as we all have opportunities to steal knowing we will 'get away with it'
Incidentally there are many creatures out there who also demonstrate remarkably similar qualities these are the social groups such as bees, termites ants etc even some species of higher animal.
Is this what you are trying to say? |
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| jacketate |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:40 pm Post subject: |
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Yes i'd say thats a good summary. =)
Except i'd consider going as far as to say that our reasoned thought or "angel" in your analogy wins in every scenario.
In the rapist/murderer case i don't believe he listens to your devil, i believe it is his angel that has become morally evil, he still listens to his conscious thought but it is bad conscious thought
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| paralith |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Megabrain wrote: |
| Human instincts are animal instincts, however human behaviour is different. Instinct controls/influences behaviour in both animals and humans but humans have a veto over instincts which usually works. |
I would not go that far, Megabrain - at least not yet. I think the effectiveness of a human's conscious "veto" is largely unknown at this point. Especially considering, as I mentioned above, that a great deal of the genetic influences that effect us are unconscious and go unnoticed by most conscious human minds. If you don't even think about it, how can you veto it?
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Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
~Jean-Paul Sartre
Monkeys in Clothes - hosted by SFN blogs |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:49 pm Post subject: |
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I equated 'angel' to civilised side and 'devil' to animal instinct, therefore you are suggesting the murderer loses his civilised side for a second 'animal' side this I disagree with. We all listen to the 'devlish' side occasionally whether a practical joke or something more sinister yet we return to our starting point (the ability to listen to both sides then decide). Surely if what you say was true then the murderer could only perform to the tune of his 'devil' or animal instinct. Clearly murderers do not behave this way the overwhelming majority of murderers kill only once. I do not believe any person can actually be 100% evil (though in Stalin's case I am struggling ....)
Paralith, my explanation is a theory, to my mind it fits the facts, I know I weigh things from both sides I know either side can win. I accept it may not be the real reason for the veto, at least we all seem to agree there is or maybe a veto whatever it's source.
Last edited by Guest on Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| jacketate |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 1:53 pm Post subject: |
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| therefore you are suggesting the murderer loses his civilised side for a second 'animal' side this I disagree |
this is not exactly what i am saying, i mean to say that his angel/civilised side becomes less civilised but it still controlled by his conscious.
Look at a rapist, in many cases the rapist is picky about his victims, or the location of the rape or the time of day, i believe this can show how his conscious thought has worked on the idea and it is not an instinct idea
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| Minxy |
| Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2008 5:38 pm Post subject: |
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On Probation
Joined: 19 Dec 2007
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| jacketate wrote: |
| Quote: |
| therefore you are suggesting the murderer loses his civilised side for a second 'animal' side this I disagree |
this is not exactly what i am saying, i mean to say that his angel/civilised side becomes less civilised but it still controlled by his conscious.
Look at a rapist, in many cases the rapist is picky about his victims, or the location of the rape or the time of day, i believe this can show how his conscious thought has worked on the idea and it is not an instinct idea |
Flamed? Yes Acetate, how dare you start such an interesting discussion on this forum 
I agree that we have a connection with animal instincts, the development of the human brain demonstrates that (and so do many humans unfortunately) I think we have an 'animal' side whether we like it or not (ggrrr...) it all depends i guess on how we use it and what it's being controlled by.
People who allow the animal side to take over and commit crimes such as rape and murder probably give precedence to this instinct and instead of using the conscience to divert this instinct into something more civilized, they instead use the conscious as a tool for 'how best to do it and get away with it'
I think belief has a foothold in here also. The rapist obviously believes he has a right to do what he does. People who behave civilized tend to believe in civilization and therefore consider others.
Rapists and murderers perhaps allow their desires to steer their beliefs. They are purely selfish.
Most people desire to live in a civilized world and so follow that belief.
I think part of being human which makes us different to animals is being able to ponder all these options, (which is why we've got this wonderful forum) consider ourselves in the equation and then choose.....
Being human and having a more parts of our brain than an animal gives us more potential.....and i guess the ability to waste that potential by complications, hesitations and procrastinations from too much choice!
Now i am sitting here and wondering what a cow sitting chewing cud in a field all day might be thinking about when i should be doing my washing up!
See just look what you've started
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
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Why am I participating in this forum?
An instinctive desire to communicate with fellow humans.
Why do I sometimes provide detailed responses to questions?
An instinctive desire to help develop fellow humans.
Why do I occasionally rip another poster or his arguments to threads?
An instinctive desire to weed out the weak amongst my fellow humans.
Why do I post on so many topics in a manner that suggests I know what the **** I'm talking about?
An instinctive desire to dominate my fellow humans.
There isn't a single thing I do on this forum or in my daily life that is not guided by my instincts and controlled by my genes. Research has demonstrated that many actions are initiated subconsciously before a conscious decision is made. We are complex beings, but we ignore at our peril the huge role played by automatic and pre-programmed, or conditioned processes.
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| Guest |
| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| Three out of four aint bad. |
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| jacketate |
| Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2008 11:19 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Dec 2007
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Why am I participating in this forum?
An instinctive desire to communicate with fellow humans.
Why do I sometimes provide detailed responses to questions?
An instinctive desire to help develop fellow humans.
Why do I occasionally rip another poster or his arguments to threads?
An instinctive desire to weed out the weak amongst my fellow humans.
Why do I post on so many topics in a manner that suggests I know what the **** I'm talking about?
An instinctive desire to dominate my fellow humans.
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perhaps the reasons you do those things are instincitve perhaps not. what interests me though is that this is the manner you choose to carry out these events.
for example an instinctive desire to dominate my fellow humans, wouldnt it be more animal like to fight another human.
or to weed out the weak, why don't you just go to a mental hospital and set fire to it. or drown lame children in the river.
however rather than that you choose to use a forum. this decision would have been reasoned through. it is more ethical to make harsh comments on a forum than torching a mental hospital. and perhaps you are not the strongest human meaning you would't be able to dominate the fight.
I don't know the reasons, i just know that the civilized brain made the decisions and so your overall reasons for participating in the forum are driven by a civilized decision
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