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| Robbie |
 Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:31 am Post subject: Golde Ratio |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 08 Aug 2006
Posts: 484
Location: Dublin
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Im sure this has come up before, but can anyone give me an article on the scientific explanation f the golden ratio, I need it to potentially argue against a creationist who may use it as an assertion for intelligent design.
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| h2so4hurts |
| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 48
Location: Iowa City, IA
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| sunshinewarrior |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:41 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 26 Sep 2007
Posts: 825
Location: London
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Start with Fibonacci on wiki, and having read that, click through to links on Fibonacci number and golden ratio. Could help you understand and hence explain the various ways in which these matters are connected. FWIW, some notes (unreferenced so you may have to look it up before believing it!):
1. A Net based study using pictures cropped in various ways showed no definite preference for the golden ratio
2. The reason why numbers from the Fibonacci sequence pop up in nature's spirals (at least in Sunflowers and so on) is because the ratio on which it is based (square root of 5 etc) creates one of the 'most irrational' of irrational numbers. Actually, if Serpico etc have the time, perhaps they could explain what it means for a number to be 'more irrational' than another. Particularly since it's not a transcendental number.
3. Look up Kaufamn and co (At home in the universe et al). They point out how natural selection is clever enough to use naturally forming patterns/self-organising mechanisms, and therefore could easily have picked up on the utility of the Golden Ratio etc.
4. Don't be fooled by Dan Brown or the other nonsense regarding human proportions and the Vitruvian man - we cannot measure huamn proportions that precisely, so we could easily have chosen the less mystic sounding number 8/5 to represent them and you would not be able to tell it's wrong.
cheer
shanks |
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| paralith |
| Posted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:04 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 06 Jun 2007
Posts: 959
Location: Washington, DC
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To add to shanks' point number 3, I would like to mention that a spiral formation of seeds in a flower or pine cone that roughly approximates the Fibonacci sequence allows plants to pack the most seeds in the smallest amount of space. Similarly, a roughly Fibonacci spiral pattern of leaves along the length of a plant stem helps to prevent leaves higher on the stem from overly shading leaves lower on the stem. The pattern is adaptive - it gives a functional advantage to the plant. It is not simply an arbitrary pattern throw on them by a designer.
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