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| Genesis 1 & 2 - Biblical and Scientific Perspective |
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| Hiramabbi |
 Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: Genesis 1 & 2 - Biblical and Scientific Perspective |
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Here's how I look at it....
In the beginning God Created the heaven (Air) and the Earth (Ground). And the Earth was without form, (Dust) and void; (Empty) and darkness was upon the face of the deep, (Water) and the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
The 3 elements necessary for all physical form are shown... Air, Dust, and Water. Everything which is physical is composed of these 3 elements. The text is correct in showing that the water was not directly created, or spoken into being, because it consists of elements of the Air or Atmosphere. Water is Hydrogen and Oxygen and came from the Atmosphere and is not shown as a separate creation.
This is correct in today's scientific knowledge, but IF the Bible were written by Ancient men, Moses would not have known this. He would have written that in the beginning God created the Air, Dust, and Water, but since God Himself is the Author, He correctly shows that the Atmosphere and Ground were created, and the Water was not a separate creation but instead, came from the Atmosphere.
God Bless
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And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16 |
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| Hiramabbi |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:26 am Post subject: |
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Stars and Planets as we know today, didn't just appear just like that at their current position, otherwise, everything will not be in motion, just a stand still. As observed, everything is moving, everything is pulling and everything is in motion.
By looking at the spiral generated by stirring up hot coffee with milk, we can see that when the milk spiral is small, it turns faster, and when the milk spiral gets bigger, it gets slower and slower and the spiral spreads out to the brim and scatters. By applying this effect to our Solar system, we get a similar effect, but planets have masses, magnetic fields, and centripetal forces.
Simulation:
By setting up a model, we can make an observation. The model is made up of ball magnets of different sizes and strengths to represent the planets and the Sun, being the strongest magnet. They are placed in a circular case and with dividers acting as orbits. The air is then pumped out. When it is spun, centripetal forces takes effect. It is observed that the stronger magnets tends to pull other lesser strength magnets and slows them down. When the spin slows down, all attracts each other and makes a straight line. Furthermore, it is observed that the magnets vibrates upon making a straight line. Applying this model to our solar system, by this time, as shown by the milk spiral, the time that the balls go slower, the spiral gets bigger and further from the center. Looking at our Solar system, the planets will move away from the Sun and there will be a full occultation of the planets made by the straight line. Jupiter will cover all the outer planets, Mars will cover Jupiter and on the other side, a solar eclipse and the moon will cover Venus and Venus will cover Mercury. Everything at this point will be in total darkness.
This we see, is the end of our Solar System. If there is an end, there is a beginning. As explained, there is a super dense core at the beginning of our universe. It spirally exploded and the stars and the planets was born. As explained by Genesis, there were 6 days of creation and today is still the 6th day. God rested on the 7th day. Initial stages of creation were extremely explosive, as written:
Genesis 1
1 First - God made heaven & earth 2 The earth was without form and void, and darkness was upon the face of the deep; and the Spirit of God was moving over the face of the waters.
God first created the materials needed to make the heaven and earth -- Solid, Liquid, Gas, Plasma, etc.
3 And God said, "Let there be light"; and there was light.
The brightness of the glory of the Lord (Son) caused the interaction of these elements or matters that were fused together and the super dense core exploded resulting to what we now called as the “Big Bang”. It’s more like Nuclear fusion. Remember, this super dense core was extremely massive, therefore has extreme gravity force, many times stronger than the black hole. With this force, explosion can never go straight but follows a spiral elliptical path. And, the Polarize Vacuum charge at this moment will be at 0.00000000000000000001 or even less. Light at this time could have been traveling at a much faster pace because it needs to escape the immense gravity at the core. It could be traveling at a million times more than today.
4God saw that the light was good; and God separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day.
At this stage, the Earth is now beginning to form and spin as it collected solid debris from the explosion. As it formed and grew in mass, earth gravity was born. At this stage day and night appeared. But, the Earth was still formless, not spherical in shape as we know today. It will look like a half eaten apple.
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And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16 |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:32 am Post subject: |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qymoktf0wY
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“After Darwin, God's role changes from being the designer of all creatures, great and small, to being the designer of the laws of nature, from which natural selection can unfold, to being just perhaps the chooser of the laws.”
~ Daniel C. Dennett |
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| Hiramabbi |
| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Albert Einstein, when asked his worse mistake, said that it was assuming that there was another force, besides Gravity, which could explain the Galaxies movements. Today, Scientists are dumbfounded by the latest Hubble discoveries that Galaxies are increasing in speed. These arrogant scientists are trying to say that Einstein was wrong about his worse mistake. They claim that there must be some Undetected, Undiscovered, Mysterious force which is causing the Galaxies to move apart at increasing Speed.
The answer is that the 1st World was formed in the midst of the Waters, and our present World is formed in the midst of the "Star Dust". The Galaxies are being drawn toward the larger mass of Dust which surrounds our World, and are increasing in speed as they approach the Firmament which surrounds our World.
At the end of the present 6th Day, the Stars will fall from the Sky and brimstone, dust and fire, will fall from Heaven. Everyone will then know that the ignorant assumptions of mortal men, who believe that some unseen, unknown, undiscovered force, is propelling these Galaxies apart is nothing short of ignorance. Scientists could avoid making such ignorant assumptions if they would read Scripture.
Mark 13:24 But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, v25 And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken. v26 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.
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And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16 |
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| Ophiolite |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 2:05 am Post subject: |
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Forum Radioactive Isotope
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It occurs to me that just as we have a forum for pseudoscience we may need one for pseudoreligion.
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The Universe is not only weirder than we imagine it is weirder than we can imagine. J.B.S.Haldane. |
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:04 am Post subject: |
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| Ophiolite wrote: |
| ... we may need one for pseudoreligion. |
it's called fundamentalism
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if you find this place too crowded or too confrontational, how about trying Philosophorum,
the amicable forum where small is beautiful and even the trolls are intelligent
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:31 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
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Location: UKGBNI, England, Derbyshire
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We're making progress.
Now to address the original post:
God is King of everything. He knows everything. He can make one small ball of energy turn into everything that is today from 50 billion years ago knowing what will be.
With the amount of possibilites beyond this, and there are almost an infinite number of explanations to God and how He created everything. Far too many and they get illogical. Mine is the logical one; that He knew how to make the events unfold as they are today (for whatever reason), and knew why He did it.
We don't know and never will understand it because we are not God. After all, if God did not want us to call the elements you call, hydrogen, and oxygen, gold, plutonium, mercury etc, then He would not have let us (by the assumption that if He doesn't want anything then He can stop it).
This world one day will end, both biblical and scientific.
Don't get angst from the fact that some people on this forum can seem close minded, or confused in relation to your understanding, because thats what a lot of scientific people lack, and that is understanding. They have knowledge but don't understand some of the more less real aspects of this world. They are very physical. But don't get upset at that, in the eyes of God you understand that more than they do, therefore they are the students, and therefore you must teach. And a teacher is required to be able to understand the opinion of the student. If they choose not to listen, that is their freedom to do so, we cannot do anything. So let it be if that is so.
What riles me is when they are compleley immovable, even to compromise. But remember that those huge boulders were moved from Wales to Stonehenge. Either by man power or supernatural power  .
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"There is no knowledge, that is not power" - Ralph Waldo Emerson. |
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| mitchellmckain |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:38 am Post subject: |
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Location: Salt Lake City, UTAH, USA
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| Ophiolite wrote: |
| It occurs to me that just as we have a forum for pseudoscience we may need one for pseudoreligion. |
LOL oooooooo, be nice
Religion is very subjective and can be difficult to communicate. It can indeed sound like a trip on peyote - since after all that could be an actual example of religion. The religious person is often trying to describe something for which words are inadequate. The zen master will speak in obvious contradictions to push the mind outside the limits of rationality. It is sometimes said that is often a very fine line between the prophet and the madman.
| marnixR wrote: |
it's called fundamentalism |
No it is not. "pseudo" means false. Perhaps you think all relgion is false but that won't make any sense of the term "pseudo-religion" which must presume that there is a thing called religion and that there are other things which just pretend to be a religion. An inaccurate labeling here will just cast a shadow on the meaning of pseudo-science, which I don't think you want to do, if you want to make it clear that ID is an example of pseudo-science.
Fundamentalism for all its indulgence in the pseudoscience of ID, is not a pretense when it comes to religion. Hard headed religion, certainly. Blind religion, probably. Stupid religion, maybe. But not false religion. It is an authentic religious reaction to trends which marginalize the central and founding truths of a religion. As practiced it can be hypocritical, self-righteous and laden with cultural prejudices, but these flaws are only tendencies due to the failings of humans and not inherent in what drives fundamentalism.
No if we are to make sense of the term pseudo-religion, then the only thing that I can think of which might fit the obvious meaning of this term is something like Scientology. It is hard to make this term stick, however, because unlike science which is defined by a definite methodology religion is defined more by belief. Thus while the fact that one sincerely believes ID to be a science is irrelevant to the question of wheter ID is truly a science, whether one truly believes in something has everything to do with whether that something is really a religion. We might think that Scientology was perpetrated as a fraud to make money, but some adherent may believe otherwise and to them at least it may be considered a religion.
Religions make their own rules and answer questions which they themselves ask, and this makes the question of discerning what is a religion hard to do in any objective manner. Thus it would seem that anything can be a religion. In fact the way Chrstianity tends to define idolatry, is it not defining anything that one obsessses over - a religion?
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See my physics of spaceflight simulator at http://www.relspace.astahost.com |
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:42 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 2143
Location: Cardiff, Wales
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| mitchellmckain wrote: |
| marnixR wrote: |
it's called fundamentalism |
No it is not. "pseudo" means false. Perhaps you think all relgion is false but that won't make any sense of the term "pseudo-religion" which must presume that there is a thing called religion and that there are other things which just pretend to be a religion. |
what i was referring to is that imo fundamentalism is a perversion of religion and as such pseudo, in the sense of not being the real thing
on the other hand, i could have been less polite and stated that Hiramabbi's drivel belongs in the loonie bin
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if you find this place too crowded or too confrontational, how about trying Philosophorum,
the amicable forum where small is beautiful and even the trolls are intelligent
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 5:46 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2684
Location: UKGBNI, England, Derbyshire
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You can't put someone in the loony bin because they seem radical or trollish. I feel at times that I'm the only one that is willing to listen to people.
But you've only said that because Mitchell somehow manipulated this to his serving. So its him not you. Damn yanks.
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"There is no knowledge, that is not power" - Ralph Waldo Emerson. |
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| Hiramabbi |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:20 am Post subject: |
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Now, when we talk about Almighty and All powerful, let's put that into an equation, using Einstein formula, we have:
E=mc2
c = Speed of light = 300,000,000 meters per second, where Polarized Vacuum = 1 (our solar system constant)
m = A Single proton in an atom has a mass of = 0.000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 001 672 kg
Let p = PV
1 Kilogram of water , the mass of extracted pure hydrogen = 0.111kg or 111grams.
So, E=mc2/p
=0.111 x 300,000,000 x 300,000,000 / 1
= 10,000,000,000,000,000 Joules
1 Joule is about the energy when you drop a book to the floor. That's 1 Joule.
The amount of energy 30grams of hydrogen = burning hundreds of thousands of gallons of gasoline! Covert that to 111grams of Hydrogen in 1 Kg of water. Woooahhh...
Now, if PV=<1, let us take the value of 0.5. E=mc2/0.5
10,000,000,000,000,000 / 0.5 = 20,000,000,000,000,000 JOULES !!!
Now, if PV=0.01, E=mc2/0.01
10,000,000,000,000,000 / 0.01 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000 JOULES !!!!!
Now, last one, if PV=0.00000000001, E=mc2 / 0.00000000001
10,000,000,000,000,000 / 0.00000000001 = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 JOULES!!!!!!
So, the lower the charged Polarized vacuum, the higher the energy. The value at that is mind boggling! A being with that kind of power, just the breath or even the presence is enough to destroy the whole universe billion times over!!!
Now, that's ALL POWERFUL! ALL MIGHTY GOD!
By just looking at that number, one will feel so small, insignificant dot of creation. One will feel so humble, so fearful.
_________________
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And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16 |
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:57 am Post subject: |
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Forum Cosmic Wizard
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition wrote: |
| You can't put someone in the loony bin because they seem radical or trollish. |
i thought the whole point of a forum was that you discuss your respective points of view - Hiramabbi goes way beyond being radical or trollish into solipsism, as he's only interested in spouting his rants and dismisses any replies as irrelevant
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if you find this place too crowded or too confrontational, how about trying Philosophorum,
the amicable forum where small is beautiful and even the trolls are intelligent
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting |
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| Mars |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:00 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 26 Jan 2007
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I think you've misunderstood something. The values which you are quoting is the energy of matter. It might be difficult to comprehend but you cannot extract that energy unless you can manipulate antimatter to some usable extent.
1 joule is the amount of energy by a force of one newton moving one meter along the direction of the force. Nothing to do with books.
| Quote: |
You can't put someone in the loony bin because they seem radical or trollish. I feel at times that I'm the only one that is willing to listen to people.
But you've only said that because Mitchell somehow manipulated this to his serving. So its him not you. Damn yanks. |
I have no problem listening to people just so long as they conform to science which is the driving force of the modern world.
Although my views are fundamentally different to Mitchell's I will always listen to what he has to say due to this very fact, i.e. that he acknowledges science as is willing to learn more about it instead of the blind dogma portrayed by Hiramabbi.
With respect to Svwillmer, one could spend their entire life listening to these crackpots but it would serve no purpose. One has to have a predetermined system of disregarding the trash or so to say...
Barry
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Thinking of the question is greater than knowing the answer... |
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| Hiramabbi |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 66
Location: Connecticut
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| marnixR wrote: |
| 425 Chaotic Requisition wrote: |
| You can't put someone in the loony bin because they seem radical or trollish. |
i thought the whole point of a forum was that you discuss your respective points of view - Hiramabbi goes way beyond being radical or trollish into solipsism, as he's only interested in spouting his rants and dismisses any replies as irrelevant |
On the contrary, YOU MUST BE DREAMING. I don't see any rebuttal from you on this thread except your ad hominem attacking the poster rather than dealing with the issue I brought forth.
Now, which is it that you don't understand as far as the Biblical perpective of Genesis is concerned? Either debate or run but don't you project your owm weaknesses on me.
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And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16 |
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| Hiramabbi |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| Barry Flannery wrote: |
I think you've misunderstood something. The values which you are quoting is the energy of matter. It might be difficult to comprehend but you cannot extract that energy unless you can manipulate antimatter to some usable extent.
1 joule is the amount of energy by a force of one newton moving one meter along the direction of the force. Nothing to do with books. Barry |
Here's the whole context of the quote...
"1 Joule is about the energy when you drop a book to the floor. That's 1 Joule."
I agree, it is a unit of energy equal to the work done by a force of one newton acting through a distance of one meter.
Thanks
_________________
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And I will bring the BLIND by a way that they knew not; I will lead them in paths that they have not known: I will make darkness light before them, and crooked things straight. These things will I do unto them, and not forsake them. Isaiah 42:16 |
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