| Author |
Message
|
| qwertyman |
 Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:34 am Post subject: Free will? |
 |
|
Forum Freshman
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Location: England
|
do we realy have free will?
the more I find out about psychology the more I learn that all emotions and everything about us is decided by our genes and memes.
so do we realy have free will or are all our decisions controlled by our genes and memes?
_________________
'if one man beleaves in fairies its called madness
if one million men beleave in faries its called religion'- Richard Dawkings
(but i think he was quoting someone when he said it...but who cares) |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
| spuriousmonkey |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 567
|
How can you have free will if every thought and action is determined by a limited structure that allows for a limited range of output and input.
_________________
“A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of stone.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Skiyk |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 190
Location: Canada
|
 True
_________________
A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| qwertyman |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Freshman
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Location: England
|
so, we have an illusion of free will, but we dont realy...wow kinda depressing
if i have no free will, how am i held responsible for my actions?
I had a thought, Totaly irellivant, All we are is our brain, the entire rest of our body is just there to keep the brain alive, if we were to keep the brain alive with artificail methods we would technicaly be immortal! dont be shy to call me a nut-job, it was just a random thought
_________________
'if one man beleaves in fairies its called madness
if one million men beleave in faries its called religion'- Richard Dawkings
(but i think he was quoting someone when he said it...but who cares) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 402
Location: Montreal
|
We have a limited structure, however this structure is capable of a near infinitesimal amount of different actions. As you stand in one place consider the actions you could take, the amount of small and large movements, the lack of movements and the like. A limited amount of choices is not a lack of choice, therefore we have freewill within that context.
The question of whether the choice we made is predertermined by past experiences and our genetics is a better question.
Go read some Existentialist philosophy, they never tire of writing about free will. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Skiyk |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 3:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 190
Location: Canada
|
I believe we have free will.
Will you choose the road less traveled?
Is glass half empty or half full?
We make variations of the choices every day and many of us make different choices.
_________________
A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Selene |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 881
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
|
| Skiyk wrote: |
I believe we have free will.
Will you choose the road less traveled?
Is glass half empty or half full?
We make variations of the choices every day and many of us make different choices. |
Yup
It's good practice to always remember you have a choice and to remember what those choices are and not to run on auto-pilot.
Oh and ignore anyone who begins their sentences with....
"You should......." or
"You shouldn't........."
_________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
A spoon does not know the taste of soup, nor a learned fool the taste of wisdom. (Welsh Proverb)
I am going to have a baby!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Skiyk |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 190
Location: Canada
|
Or you will or you will not
_________________
A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Selene |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 881
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
|
| Skiyk wrote: |
| Or you will or you will not |
Yeah
And people that think they know all about you and know it all and know everything that's good an bad for you.
I always screw my eyes shut, cover my ears and stick out my tongue.
Guaranteed five minutes after i have opened my eyes they will have left the building
_________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
A spoon does not know the taste of soup, nor a learned fool the taste of wisdom. (Welsh Proverb)
I am going to have a baby!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Skiyk |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 190
Location: Canada
|
And if you did that, probably ran out of the country.
_________________
A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| BumFluff |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 198
Location: Canada
|
| Some theories claim that free will is an illusion as has been mentioned before. If time travel is possible and the theory of extra dimensions is false, there is no possible way you could go back in time and kill yourself because what's done is done. Basically everything is already written, we can't do whatever we want to do because anything we do has already been programmed into the massive computer that is time and space. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| marnixR |
| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 11:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Cosmic Wizard
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 2163
Location: Cardiff, Wales
|
| BumFluff wrote: |
| ... If time travel is possible ... |
big if - imo, if time travel was possible, time travelers would be here by now
_________________
if you find this place too crowded or too confrontational, how about trying Philosophorum,
the amicable forum where small is beautiful and even the trolls are intelligent
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| spuriousmonkey |
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 12 May 2005
Posts: 567
|
| i_feel_tiredsleepy wrote: |
| We have a limited structure, however this structure is capable of a near infinitesimal amount of different actions. |
No it isn't.
The structure of each individual brain is very determined and the result of its natural history. The output is very predictable, if you would be able to interpret such a complex structure. However, you cannot confuse a lack of methodology to do so with this structure being capable of infinitesimal amount of interactions.
In summary,
First of all, the possible interactions are finite.
Secondly, the interactions of the brain depend entirely on the network structure present in the brain.
Thirdly, the structural network of the brain is determined by a genetic component, the developmental history, and subsequent modifications due to environmental influences, which could be input, drugs etc.
As for choice. Making a choice is not identical to having free will. A choice is merely an input with two or more options and one outcome. Whether you think about the options or not, the outcome is determined to a few possible scenarios. The ones that are allowed for by your brain. You cannot come up with any option that falls outside the possibilities of your limited brain, which eliminates free will from the equation, since you are a prisoner of your brain.
_________________
“A scientific man ought to have no wishes, no affections, - a mere heart of stone.” |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Selene |
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 3:36 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 04 Feb 2008
Posts: 881
Location: I live in Bertrand Russells teapot!
|
| spuriousmonkey wrote: |
| i_feel_tiredsleepy wrote: |
| We have a limited structure, however this structure is capable of a near infinitesimal amount of different actions. |
No it isn't.
The structure of each individual brain is very determined and the result of its natural history. The output is very predictable, if you would be able to interpret such a complex structure. However, you cannot confuse a lack of methodology to do so with this structure being capable of infinitesimal amount of interactions.
In summary,
First of all, the possible interactions are finite.
Secondly, the interactions of the brain depend entirely on the network structure present in the brain.
Thirdly, the structural network of the brain is determined by a genetic component, the developmental history, and subsequent modifications due to environmental influences, which could be input, drugs etc.
As for choice. Making a choice is not identical to having free will. A choice is merely an input with two or more options and one outcome. Whether you think about the options or not, the outcome is determined to a few possible scenarios. The ones that are allowed for by your brain. You cannot come up with any option that falls outside the possibilities of your limited brain, which eliminates free will from the equation, since you are a prisoner of your brain. |
Yes we all have the basic structure of brain BUT it all boils down to HOW you use it and HOW MUCH you use it.
If you use your brain to a maximum capacity and make as many connections as possible then surely you are better armed to have a better scope of choices to choose from.
For example somebody proficient in the game of chess and pre-planning maneuvers and trained in seeing strategy is better armed at making better decisions than a person who spends most of their time watching day time TV?
_________________
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
A spoon does not know the taste of soup, nor a learned fool the taste of wisdom. (Welsh Proverb)
I am going to have a baby!
xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
| Skiyk |
| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Forum Sophomore
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
Posts: 190
Location: Canada
|
Yeah, true. Hitler was highly intelligent and he didn't use his brain well because...well...he was mad.
_________________
A biophysicist talks physics to the biologists and biology to the physicists, but then he meets another biophysicist, they just discuss women.
E-Mail - skiyk@hotmail.com |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
