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| qwertyman |
 Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: Faith Schools |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Location: England
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I live in England and there is currently a lot of controversy over faith schools.
I would like to hear people’s opinions on them.
Please lets have a nice clean debate with no flaming. 
_________________
'if one man beleaves in fairies its called madness
if one million men beleave in faries its called religion'- Richard Dawkings
(but i think he was quoting someone when he said it...but who cares) |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:22 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2684
Location: UKGBNI, England, Derbyshire
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Whats a faith school?
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"There is no knowledge, that is not power" - Ralph Waldo Emerson. |
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:28 am Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 376
Location: Montreal
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| Maybe it's one of those Bible camps where they indoctrinate children to disbelieve evolution and hate the gays? |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2684
Location: UKGBNI, England, Derbyshire
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Stop it, don't say it that way. You are stereotyping. Don't make me ignore you like countless others here, please give me some faith in you people. The way you said it was dogmatic against religious believers. Here is the correct analogy that you should have used if you wanted to keep any respect for yourself from other people:
Maybe its one of those religious places where they give children information without another side of the story, in which could lead to the disbelief of evolution and show ill-attitudes towards homosexuals by not teaching understanding when explaining the bible.
Do you see how that is less dogmatic and more understanding? It is more considerate and efficient. The very exitence atheists fight to preserve, yet destroy the floor beneath from them. Only the strongest will survive. And strength is not physical and it is not the ability to attack. Be diplomatic, be understanding, push frustrations to one side. THAT is the art of being a scientist, the ART of being rational. THE Meaning behind logic.
_________________
"There is no knowledge, that is not power" - Ralph Waldo Emerson. |
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 7:45 am Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 376
Location: Montreal
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No Bible camps litterally exist lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp
There was a documentary about them. I'm sure there are some that are fair and less fundamentalist, but I think that is what he is talking about.
Edit: I'll add that I don't think they're a big deal because they are mostly preaching to the choir, the people who attend these types of things are usually already pretty much grounded in their faith.
Last edited by i_feel_tiredsleepy on Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:24 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 891
Location: Norway
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Yes, I've seen these faith schools, or brainwashing schools, and recognize their abuse. Like they discussed on "The Big Questions", BBC (you can find it here).
I'd say that children are too young to be indoctrinated by such faith schools. The children should have the opportunity to learn about religions and have the opportunity to choose for themselves when they grow up. "Getting them while they're young" is the same as child abuse.
| i_feel_tiredsleepy wrote: |
No Bible camps litterally exist lol.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_Camp
There was a documentary about them. I'm sure there are some that are fair and less fundamentalist, but I think that is what he is talking about.
Edit: I'll add that I don't think they're a big deal because they are mostly preaching to the quire, the people who attend these types of things are usually already pretty much grounded in their faith. |
That is perhaps a bit too crazy example of a faith school, besides, it lies in the USA. 
_________________
“After Darwin, God's role changes from being the designer of all creatures, great and small, to being the designer of the laws of nature, from which natural selection can unfold, to being just perhaps the chooser of the laws.”
~ Daniel C. Dennett
Last edited by Obviously on Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:42 am; edited 3 times in total |
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 376
Location: Montreal
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| I'm just ashamed that I spelled choir wrong lol. |
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| Obviously |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:39 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 14 Aug 2007
Posts: 891
Location: Norway
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy wrote: |
| I'm just ashamed that I spelled choir wrong lol. |
Haha 
_________________
“After Darwin, God's role changes from being the designer of all creatures, great and small, to being the designer of the laws of nature, from which natural selection can unfold, to being just perhaps the chooser of the laws.”
~ Daniel C. Dennett |
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| qwertyman |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:21 am Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 28 Mar 2008
Posts: 62
Location: England
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition wrote: |
| Whats a faith school? |
a faith school is a school, usauly a primary or pre-school, where they only accept children from a certain faith, be it christian, muslim or whatever.
basicaly what the whole argument is, is that these schools segragate children into separate groups at a young age, and they are tought only about their (or rather their parents) religious beleafs. and more, are tought it as fact.
allso a large number of these schools are not goverment funded, and therefore dont need to follow goverment guidelines, so they can (and many do) choose to leave out teaching evelution or even science alltogether.
oh and by the way i was sent to a christian faith school as a primary school, and beleave me it was horrible. i was the only 'non-christian' there and i was forced to pray to god during assembly and sing hyms, at first i didnt understand it so it didnt bother me, but as i grew older it began to upset me that i had no choice about it,and i was allways singled out as 'the diferent one'. luckily i moved to secondary school (or high school as i think some people call it) and now i can do what i want.
_________________
'if one man beleaves in fairies its called madness
if one million men beleave in faries its called religion'- Richard Dawkings
(but i think he was quoting someone when he said it...but who cares) |
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 10:30 am Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 376
Location: Montreal
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When I was little my parents sent me to French private school, the teachers used to punish me for speaking English in the school yard, it messed me up so much that I refused to speak English even at home  .
My parents eventually realized what was going on and switched me to a bilingual school.
Idk, here in Montreal we have many ethnic private schools, Hebrew schools are quite common because it is important to religious Jews that their children learn Hebrew, so it is easier for the parents that they go to a school which teaches the language. Catholic schools have been around for ages as a source of affordable private education, they also remain quite popular, although Catholic schools do not refuse entrance to people of other faiths and most of them are fairly accomodating these days.
I went to a Catholic school for Grade 12-13 (we have an abnormal education system lol), the dean was a nun and the seminary was allowed to recruit people on school grounds. Most school procedures involved the invocation of Godl, however I never felt that my science education had been compromised nor was I ever obligated to participate in any religious ceremonies. |
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| pavlos |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 25 Oct 2007
Posts: 87
Location: liverpool
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this was posted up here ages ago
"Please Sign Up, if you feel as we do:
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Abolish all faith schools and prohibit the teaching of creationism and other religious mythology in all UK schools.
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/faithschools/
as the road charges debate showed, at least it may raise this into the public consciousness.
Faith schools remove the rights of children to choose their own religious, philosophical and ethical beliefs. They also sanction ethnic segregation and create tension and divisiveness within society. Schools should be places where children are given a free education, not centres for indoctrination. Creationism and other religious myths should not be taught as fact regardless of the funding status of a school. Abolishing faith schools will provide children with more freedom of choice and help to promote a fully multi-cultural, peaceful society"
with thanks to geezer
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A logician saves the life of a tiny space alien. The alien is very grateful and, since she's omniscient, offers the following reward: she offers to answer any question the logician might pose. Without too much thought (after all, he's a logician), he asks: "What is the best question to ask and what is the correct answer to that question?" The tiny alien pauses. Finally she replies, "The best question is the one you just asked; and the correct answer is the one I gave." |
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| i_feel_tiredsleepy |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Senior
Joined: 21 Mar 2008
Posts: 376
Location: Montreal
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The freedom of choice of children is limited though, it is up to the parents to decide how their child should be educated. If they want to educate their child in private institutions that teach creationism as fact it is their choice. The government doesn't have the right to take away the option of parents to homeschool or privately educate their children.
If the tables were turned and publicly funded schools were teaching creationism, wouldn't you appreciate the right to send your child to a school that taught evolution? |
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| CircularlyPolarized |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Right here! Hello!
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I believe the state has a certain responsibility to children aswell, such as not allowing physical or mental abuse. Personally, I consider "indoctrinating" children with religion before they can make an informed decision to be a form of abuse.
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...Wait, what? |
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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The Doctor
Joined: 18 Jun 2007
Posts: 2684
Location: UKGBNI, England, Derbyshire
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Yeah pal, so does every other atheist. What ya gonna do about it? Nothing, there is jack all you or anyone else can do about it. And who knows if its a bad thing, if it teaches children morals and rights (which most atheists don't seem to have, by some standards at least), then let it happen.
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"There is no knowledge, that is not power" - Ralph Waldo Emerson. |
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| CircularlyPolarized |
| Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 25 Feb 2008
Posts: 74
Location: Right here! Hello!
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| 425 Chaotic Requisition wrote: |
| Yeah pal, so does every other atheist. What ya gonna do about it? Nothing, there is jack all you or anyone else can do about it. And who knows if its a bad thing, if it teaches children morals and rights (which most atheists don't seem to have, by some standards at least), then let it happen. |
Atheists don't have morals...or rights?
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