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| Deej |
 Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: Electrical Universe Theory? |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 5
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Hi,
I recently came across the Electrical Universe Theory while researching Dark Matter. See http://www.thunderbolts.info/ for a website with a lot on it. I've also seen a lot of comments on the theory that's it's been thoroughly debunked and is known pseudoscience and not real science. What I've been unable to find is any of this actual debunking. Does anyone have some leads (links or books) that do actual debunking instead of just referring to it as known pseudoscience and therefore not worth paying any attention to? It would be nice if there were some specific examples of predictions that failed to pan out or such.
Thanks!
Deej
Edit: here's a link to the subpage that brought me to that site while looking into info on Dark Matter in case anyone's curious... http://www.thunderbolts.info/tpod/2008/arch08/080325darkunderstanding.htm |
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| Frenchi |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Sophomore
Joined: 06 Mar 2008
Posts: 102
Location: Port Saint Lucie, Florida
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| I'm not sure exactly how one could 'debunk' the electric universe theory, at least not in its entirety. We know that a good deal of the processes that go on in the universe are attributable, if not entirely then at least in part, to electromagnetism. To debunk the electric universe would essentially be saying that electricity is pseudoscience. The extent to which electromagnetism has an active role versus other processes like nuclear fusion/fission et al could be the topic of debate. |
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| Deej |
| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 24 Mar 2008
Posts: 5
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I've been doing some more poking around and now I'm even more confused! I guess that's the nature of learning 
Here's an example of a site that counters the Electrical Universe idea in the manner I've oft seen repeated: http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/misc/mccanney/solarwind.html
When I visit his references (one of which is a broken link), I see that the solar wind is a plasma and electrically neutral. Curious as to what it meant to be a plasma, I checked out wikipedia and found:
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| In physics and chemistry, a plasma is typically an ionized gas. Plasma is considered to be a distinct state of matter, apart from gases, because of its unique properties. Ionized refers to presence of one or more free electrons, which are not bound to an atom or molecule. The free electric charges make the plasma electrically conductive so that it responds strongly to electromagnetic fields. |
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_%28physics%29)
So then I looked at electromagnetic fields and see
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| The electromagnetic field is a physical field produced by electrically charged objects. It affects the behaviour of charged objects in the vicinity of the field. |
also from wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electromagnetic_field
So now it looks to me like the argument against the Electrical Universe Theory is that the fact that neutral plasma doesn't have a charge means it doesn't have an effect.
Then it turns out that plasma is moved by electromagnetic forces and carries high energy which has an effect.
And for those forces to exist there must be electrically charged objects to create the force. What are those objects in classical physics?
Am I just confused? |
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| iantresman |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:32 am Post subject: Re: Electrical Universe Theory? |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 8
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| Deej wrote: |
Hi,
I recently came across the Electrical Universe Theory while researching Dark Matter. See http://www.thunderbolts.info/ for a website with a lot on it. I've also seen a lot of comments on the theory that's it's been thoroughly debunked and is known pseudoscience and not real science. |
You need to ask yourself two questions. (1) What does the Electric Universe theory claim (2) What makes something pseudoscience (note there is no scientific definition!), and consequently, does one apply to the other.
_________________
Ian Tresman
www.plasma-universe.com |
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| iantresman |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 8
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I don't think this has any relevance to the Electric Universe theory, which I am sure are consistent with known facts about the Solar Wind:
- The Solar Wind (or interplanetary medium), is a fully ionized plasma consisting of approximately equal numbers of oppositely charged particles, negatively charged electrons and positively charged protons, and helium ions
- Plasmas, including the Solar Wind, are described as "quasi-neutral", which means that they tend towards electrical neutrality overall. It also means that regions of charge separation may occur on a small local scale.
- An example of such charge separation is the so-called heliospheric current sheet, the largest coherence structure in the Solar System, which carries an estimated 3×109 amperes.
(See the links for more details and peer-reviewed references)
_________________
Ian Tresman
www.plasma-universe.com |
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| KALSTER |
| Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:37 am Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Sep 2007
Posts: 1905
Location: South Africa
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I also found THIS discussion about debunking Electric universe Theory.
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"Gullibility kills" - Carl Sagan |
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