| Does race exist? (read article) |
| Yes |
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69% |
[ 9 ] |
| No |
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23% |
[ 3 ] |
| Undecided |
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7% |
[ 1 ] |
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| Total Votes : 13 |
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| scientstphilosophertheist |
 Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 7:58 am Post subject: Does race exist? Article says it does! |
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Forum Ph.D.
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Location: "Jamerica"...When in America, Florida; when in Jamaica, St. Mary
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:09 am Post subject: |
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Posts: 4576
Location: Cardiff, Wales
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i'm sure that races exist, when understood as local populations with characteristics slightly different from other populations
when limited to this definition, the question of race is pretty uncontroversial (even though some might want to have a try) - it's when you try to interpret these local differences as differences in worth that you leave the field of science and enter the world of politics, where race is obviously a hot potato
however, to place the issue of race in perspective : the amount of variation found in any group of chimps is greater than that of the whole human species
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how about visiting a foreign country, like Philosophorum ? plenty of møøse there ...
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting, and less interesting than drinking a beer  (although that's still moderately interesting) |
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| captaincaveman |
| Posted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:58 am Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1460
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Ive always accepted that race exists,and believe the difference in race is similar to sub-species in other animals, If the PC brigade allowed it.
Looking at other species that have been awarded the label of sub species,there are far fewer differences between them and the variability of humans
I got mis-interpreted last time i used the term sub species as some took this as meaning sub standard which isn't what i mean
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CAPTAINCAVEMAN
I ANSWER TO NO-ONE - The wonders of athiesm
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| curious1 |
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:14 pm Post subject: do race exist? |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 29
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| No, biologically, politically or any other way. slight difference in apperance do not make say blue eyes and brown eyes any thing more then Eyes. the same can be said from skin color to hair. and just because one group may see them selves in rankings as opposed to another group does'nt change or make it different either. superiour weapons make superior men, but men never the less. perhaps we have our differences to insure our survival. |
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| adamd164 |
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 21 Oct 2006
Posts: 64
Location: Cork, Ireland
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| marnixR wrote: |
i'm sure that races exist, when understood as local populations with characteristics slightly different from other populations
when limited to this definition, the question of race is pretty uncontroversial (even though some might want to have a try) - it's when you try to interpret these local differences as differences in worth that you leave the field of science and enter the world of politics, where race is obviously a hot potato
however, to place the issue of race in perspective : the amount of variation found in any group of chimps is greater than that of the whole human species |
But a population is a concept which really doesn't exist in Homo Sapiens, as in most other species. Constant interbreeding, immigration and emigration mean that the vast, vast majority of genetic diversity is between members of the species as a whole, as opposed to between specific groups within the species.
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Knowledge of evolution may not be strictly useful in everyday commerce. You can live some sort of life and die without ever hearing the name of Darwin. But if, before you die, you want to understand why you lived in the first place, Darwinism is the one subject that you must study.
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| paralith |
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 1:51 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 06 Jun 2007
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The problem with biological determinants of race is that they are usually characteristics that gradate from one population to another - there's not really a defining line. The populations in, say, China and Ethiopia, most definitely have some differing genetic characteristics, but where in the space in between them that you choose to draw the line and say "You are definitely one race, and you are definitely another" is more or less arbitrary. It's rather like trying to distinguish individual groups in a ring species. You could if you wanted to, but you're probably not describing an actual, defined divide.
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Man can will nothing unless he has first understood that he must count on no one but himself; that he is alone, abandoned on earth in the midst of his infinite responsibilities, without help, with no other aim than the one he sets himself, with no other destiny than the one he forges for himself on this earth.
~Jean-Paul Sartre |
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Mon Dec 17, 2007 4:08 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4576
Location: Cardiff, Wales
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| adamd164 wrote: |
| But a population is a concept which really doesn't exist in Homo Sapiens, as in most other species. Constant interbreeding, immigration and emigration mean that the vast, vast majority of genetic diversity is between members of the species as a whole, as opposed to between specific groups within the species. |
maybe in the world as it is now, man's mobility is such that distinct populations become blurred through interbreeding
however, go back 10,000 years and mobility was far more restricted, so during the first 90% of H.sapiens's existence i don't see a problem with local variants starting to become distinct from one another
i also don't see a problem recognising the fact that a remainder of that distinction is still with us, even though it's probably disappearing fast
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how about visiting a foreign country, like Philosophorum ? plenty of møøse there ...
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting, and less interesting than drinking a beer (although that's still moderately interesting) |
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| Arctic Rocks |
| Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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New Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
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| I think race is primarily a social construct. There are slightly different characteristics with each ethnicity, but not enough to warrant a special biological status in my opinion. |
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| Insulin Mishap |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 15
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| Racism dooms itself, for it is characteristic of a primitive and backward way of thinking about society. However, I think that it is ludicrous to suggest that these "races" only vary in skin color. They have different ancestries, therefore they have different genetics. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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yawn....
Here we go again, Humans trying to categorise things into black or white, (no pun intended).
So those of you who believe in race, what race are you?.
It is an individual thing, a person who believes in 'race' can himself categorise all his fellow humans into 'races' the only apparent reason for this seems to be to practice racial hatred.
I am ashamed that the UK government pas passed 'race' laws, this means they too, believe in racism.
Incidentally, the original question is flawed, I think it should either say
"Does Racism exist" or "Should the human population be sub-divided into races"
Then to the first I would say, yes, unquestionably, but to the second I would say no!. |
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| captaincaveman |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 31 Jul 2006
Posts: 1460
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i dont think the division of race is a way to divide for racial reasons, i dont see why humans cant be sub catagorised like any other species of animal, interestingly, the white european is in the same racial group as people from the middle east, both caucasoid's
heres a link
http://racialreality.110mb.com/racesofman.html
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CAPTAINCAVEMAN
I ANSWER TO NO-ONE - The wonders of athiesm
that which does not kill us only postpones the inevitable |
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| Stephen |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 24 Jan 2008
Posts: 83
Location: U.K.
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| Yes races exist, but I usually come last in them. |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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| "We are all black when the lights go out.." |
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| marnixR |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 4576
Location: Cardiff, Wales
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it's time to worry when you start glowing in the dark 
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how about visiting a foreign country, like Philosophorum ? plenty of møøse there ...
biology without evolution is but stamp collecting, and less interesting than drinking a beer (although that's still moderately interesting) |
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| Guest |
| Posted: Fri Jan 25, 2008 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I'm prejudiced against very old rocks, mostly those formed on the sea floor, either by excrement filtering down onto the seabed mixing with seafloor crap and being fossilized (called Ophiolite) or just old fossilized crap ( Coprolite). |
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