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| Twixly |
 Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: Does "time" exist at all? |
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Forum Freshman
Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 57
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Whoo.. my first topic on this place. Hello all 
I am mostly a philosopher, not a wellestablished scientist. Hope youĀ“ll bear with me.
So. Time.
My question is this. Does time really exist on itĀ“s own?
What I mean is, what if every single atom in the universe stoped?
For 1 bilion years nothing happened at all. Then they resumed their natural course again.
Will infact 1 bilion years have passed?
Or is time useless without motion? And is then time = motion, period?
Well I would be happy with that, but since I am such a nutjob I always dig deeper.
When plotting a position in space, you need time in order to get a proper location. Easy example, say you are gonna hook up with somebody at the pub. Without time, the info isnt helpfull. And as useless would it be if you told someone to hook up with you at 8, but not where.
So. Space-time seems tied together. Some might call it the very fabric of space. But then where does motion fit with in?
Are "space-time" and "motion-time" infact two seperate things?
Hope I didnt bore you. And I hope someone has some insights in this to help me sleep at nights..
Cheers |
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| Tenacity |
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:38 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 May 2008
Posts: 100
Location: Instow, Devon, UK
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Time is an observable factor. If time were to stop everywhere at the same period then no time will pass. It would not be observable.
I hope that clears it up slightly I know it's not a full explanation. |
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| PritishKamat |
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:34 am Post subject: |
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Time is a relative entity. It is frame dependent. It needs events to describe itself. Now, if all atoms stop, no events, no time in the reference frame of this universe
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Beyond Equations,
Pritish |
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 9:38 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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If energy is still mobile such as bosons, time can still be measured, but if even that were stopped time would not exist. There are no "time particles".
I started a thread on this very topic on my first post too, it is buried somewhere down in the bowels of the forum.
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| organic god |
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 11:02 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 06 Feb 2008
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there could be time particles. that we haven't detected.
i'm not sure how such a thing would work, maybe all the time particles in the universe are connected in another dimension and the position of each particle relative to another determines the time passed.
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everything is mathematical. |
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 10 Apr 2007
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Location: In the circuitous haze of my mind
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I also proposed a time particle theory a couple of months ago on this forum.
The problem with people it that they see time in a manner that allows them to think of something 5,000 years ago, and perceive it through a grey lens. Really, what happened 5,000 years ago might as well have happened 2 seconds ago. The only reason why that is not so, is because events have occurred since then that separate it from the present. If you think of the event as an entity entirely in of itself, then you should always perceive it as if it just happened.
Me and Chaotic Requisition came to the conclusion a while ago that Time=Energy. I find it reasonable for what we can currently perceive.
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Forget all that you know, achievements can only be accomplished by starting from nothing and selectively applying facts that are purely objective and absolutely necessary.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
"Great spirits have always found violent opposition from mediocrities. The latter cannot understand it when a man does not thoughtlessly submit to hereditary prejudices but honestly and courageously uses his intelligence"
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: Re: Does "time" exist at all? |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1301
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| Twixly wrote: |
Whoo.. my first topic on this place. Hello all
I am mostly a philosopher, not a wellestablished scientist. Hope youĀ“ll bear with me.
So. Time.
My question is this. Does time really exist on itĀ“s own?
What I mean is, what if every single atom in the universe stoped?
For 1 bilion years nothing happened at all. Then they resumed their natural course again.
Will infact 1 bilion years have passed?
Or is time useless without motion? And is then time = motion, period?
Well I would be happy with that, but since I am such a nutjob I always dig deeper.
When plotting a position in space, you need time in order to get a proper location. Easy example, say you are gonna hook up with somebody at the pub. Without time, the info isnt helpfull. And as useless would it be if you told someone to hook up with you at 8, but not where.
So. Space-time seems tied together. Some might call it the very fabric of space. But then where does motion fit with in?
Are "space-time" and "motion-time" infact two seperate things?
Hope I didnt bore you. And I hope someone has some insights in this to help me sleep at nights..
Cheers |
We measure time with moving objects. Comparing one to another and another. Then checking the ratios, and decide on names for the increments. Years, Months weeks, days, hours minutes seconds.
The postal authority uses a clock with 99 minutes and 99 seconds.
So it is really just how you want to break up time.
However time is real, even without matter, time would exist. You may fall into a stupor at the thought of all eternity without matter. But it would exist. Just my opinion.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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| SuperNatendo |
| Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 10:11 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Masters Degree
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
Posts: 518
Location: Nashville, TN USA
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time is relative to space, and the movement of particles! How could time possibly exist as a particle itself??!!
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āItās no wonder that truth is stranger than fiction. Fiction has to make sense.ā - Mark Twain |
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| Twixly |
| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 12:55 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 57
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So if time is a relative entity, without relation to something else time dont exist. But what is our universe in relation to? Can something be in relation to itself?
For time to exist in this universe then there would have to be something outside it in which THIS universe can be in relation to?
Or is this proof there has to be more then just our observable universe?
... sorry to go all philosophical on you guys |
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| Pong |
| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 1:12 am Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 08 Apr 2008
Posts: 1403
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| SuperNatendo wrote: |
| time is relative to space, and the movement of particles! How could time possibly exist as a particle itself??!! |
Let's try: Space is relative to time, and the progression of events. Could space possibly exist as an event in itself?
Cheap, I know, but this tastes like a brainstorming thread to me. |
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| PritishKamat |
| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Mumbai, India
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| Quote: |
| Can something be in relation to itself? |
what does this mean? 
Time isn't relative to space and neither vice versa. Time and space are dependent on frame and on each other. Relativity comes into play only when both are studied from 2 different frames having a mutual , constant relative velocity wrt each other.
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Beyond Equations,
Pritish |
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| Twixly |
| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 4:42 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 May 2008
Posts: 57
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| PritishKamat wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Can something be in relation to itself? |
what does this mean?
Time isn't relative to space and neither vice versa. Time and space are dependent on frame and on each other. Relativity comes into play only when both are studied from 2 different frames having a mutual , constant relative velocity wrt each other. |
I might have missunderstood what relativity means here, English isnt my first language after all.
Well, IĀ“ll try to explain what I meant with an example.
If you were to have a completely empty space of infinite vacuum. Would time go by? My standpoint is no. No matter, energy, distance or movement.. = no time.
So now letĀ“s put something in this infinite vacuum. Like an atom.
Would this cause time to start in that vacuum? My standpoint is no.
It would just sit there and nothing would happen. Even if it did move or whatever, thereĀ“s nothing else to meassure it against. No distance, no relative speed or anything at all (if we take away the observer in the example obviously).
Put another Atom there and voila, you can meassure things! Relative distance, speed and divide into events.. Time!
So what I was thinking is what if our Universe is like that first Atom. Would time exist then? Well unless thereĀ“s something else outside our Universe I dont see how. Our Universe would be dead in the vacuum without relation to anything.
Unless itĀ“s relative to itself somehow.. if thatĀ“s the right word |
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| PritishKamat |
| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 17 Sep 2007
Posts: 180
Location: Mumbai, India
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I still dont get the "relative to itself" line, but forget about it.
| Quote: |
| If you were to have a completely empty space of infinite vacuum. Would time go by? My standpoint is no. No matter, energy, distance or movement.. = no time. |
Perfectly correct. Since time doesn't exist if we cant measure it using events.
| Quote: |
So now letĀ“s put something in this infinite vacuum. Like an atom.
Would this cause time to start in that vacuum? My standpoint is no. |
Of course, the answer should be YES. This is b'cos, in an atom, there are a million things going on which can be called as events occurring in time. So, as time can be measured, it exists.
| Quote: |
| So what I was thinking is what if our Universe is like that first Atom |
Well, typing this should have made you realise this. If the univ can be compared to an atom, just as in the universe, there are many events in the atom, defining time.
| Quote: |
| English isnt my first language after all. |
It isn't mine either 
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1301
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| PritishKamat wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Can something be in relation to itself? |
what does this mean?
Time isn't relative to space and neither vice versa. Time and space are dependent on frame and on each other. Relativity comes into play only when both are studied from 2 different frames having a mutual , constant relative velocity wrt each other. |
Twixly is right about not being able to compare the universe to something else.
However, no one ever has proven that there is not more then one universe. No one has ever proven that there are more then one universes.
That is where Omniscience was at a couple hundred years ago. They realized oh my God, my little world is a pitiful zone of ignorance. I have only begun to set basics in order. And I am not taking the new basics well, I can only grasp bits at a time, because they buck 5000 years of chaos. Maybe more.
They became men of God and devoted their lives to science. Because they woke up from a stupor. And realized that they had everything they could possibly imagine and much more.
But not to many individuals to share it with.
Then colleges used these fine works to make a nice place to live for themselves. They played them up and down. To maintain control over them.
A five minute task, turned into a hundred board committee, and a new building on campus dedicated to the project. With life long jobs for those that would work out the five minute problem.
It is a neat scam if you are such a despot that you cannot do things to earn your keep without taxing others.
If you are not hiding simplicity from regular individuals that could use the simple basics everyday, I have no problem with you.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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Warning: Any information contained in this post could be part of a conspiracy to make you stupid. So only use it if you understand it. Use at your own risk.
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| William McCormick |
| Posted: Thu May 15, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 1301
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| Twixly wrote: |
| PritishKamat wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Can something be in relation to itself? |
what does this mean?
Time isn't relative to space and neither vice versa. Time and space are dependent on frame and on each other. Relativity comes into play only when both are studied from 2 different frames having a mutual , constant relative velocity wrt each other. |
I might have missunderstood what relativity means here, English isnt my first language after all.
Well, IĀ“ll try to explain what I meant with an example.
If you were to have a completely empty space of infinite vacuum. Would time go by? My standpoint is no. No matter, energy, distance or movement.. = no time.
So now letĀ“s put something in this infinite vacuum. Like an atom.
Would this cause time to start in that vacuum? My standpoint is no.
It would just sit there and nothing would happen. Even if it did move or whatever, thereĀ“s nothing else to meassure it against. No distance, no relative speed or anything at all (if we take away the observer in the example obviously).
Put another Atom there and voila, you can meassure things! Relative distance, speed and divide into events.. Time!
So what I was thinking is what if our Universe is like that first Atom. Would time exist then? Well unless thereĀ“s something else outside our Universe I dont see how. Our Universe would be dead in the vacuum without relation to anything.
Unless itĀ“s relative to itself somehow.. if thatĀ“s the right word |
Omniscience delved into this in some detail. And by scientific method deduced that there is such a thing as God. Not necessarily Buddha, or Jehovah, or Mohammed. However that a superior force, not under our control or understanding. Did in fact create the universe.
Since most of these scientists just realized that their fat lazy king or Kaiser was a retard in charge of a kingdom of retards and cowards.
They knew that God was not among them. There only tie to God was the wonderful basics in science they had discovered. And the almost remarkable way each simple find unlocked truly better life for the community.
As soon as the retards had real information, they were no longer retards. They in fact quickly figured out that the king had kept a few of these simplicities a secret from them. Even if he did not totally understand them himself. Maybe that was the reason completely.
Look at America it has become a fifth world nation. We buy learn, change, and throw out technology faster then they can make it. To no goal whatsoever. Well maybe to the goal of eternal suffering.
You are a soul, it has been demonstrated that men have over come the pain of a fatally injured body to perform feats of bravery in unselfish acts to keep others from receiving their fate.
Acts that could not be performed by a body itself. Because of the damage already absorbed, and the destructive force placed upon the body to perform the brave acts.
Most of our systems cut out and will even try to force you to the ground. When you apply to much force to damaged organs or other parts of the body. Yet souls have overcome these safety systems. Including moving a body with no heart beat. To save others.
I do not know or pretend to know what happens to your soul when you die. However, I know the universe is an awesomely thought out universe. It is so simple it is mind-boggling. I am sure who ever designed it, created its parameters and checks to keep both matter and souls in line.
You will have to figure out how that works. If you even wish to. I am just content with my own behavior and the Omniscience that created the universe.
I built human muscles years ago. And if there is such a thing as perpetual motion, it is the human muscle.
Sincerely,
William McCormick
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Warning: Any information contained in this post could be part of a conspiracy to make you stupid. So only use it if you understand it. Use at your own risk.
http://www.Rockwelder.com |
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