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| Cold Fusion |
 Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:48 pm Post subject: Crossbow Vs. Composite recurve bow |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 463
Location: In the circuitous haze of my mind
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I want a self defense weapon for my house, anything besides a gun. I was looking at crossbow due to their high pounds of force per dollar rating, but i have been thinking; could the pounds of force be like the horsepower of a car and the length of the bow area is the torque? It has come down to two different ones for $150, a crossbow with a total "bow" span of 31" and 180 lbs of force, or a regular cam powered composite recurve bow with 35 lbs of force, but with a much longer and better bent blow area. Which on is more powerful?
I feel like the 180 lbs will last for less time and have much less affect on the arrow than a bow would; the bow would use that 35 lbs much more efficiently , am I right?
I might have posted this under the military forum area, but this is kind of an engineering topic.
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| Jeremyhfht |
| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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Resident Psychologist
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One word: Katana.
A crossbow/bow is a ridiculous item to use as a home defense thing. Swords or blunt weapons (like a bat) are much more efficient.
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Tue Sep 11, 2007 8:38 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 463
Location: In the circuitous haze of my mind
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Well, yeah, I was also thinking of getting a sword, but what if some guys start running up my stairs with guns? Would I just hurl myself from the top of the stairs at them and swing like a mad man??? I crossbow would instantly dispatch one of them from a distance..then they would panic and frantically run away, or towards me. If they ran away, success, if they come towards me, either I will have had time to reload, or I could use a sword on the newly lowered number of assailants.
Also, here in L.A. , its crazy. There are drive by's all the time where I live, and I live in a more exclusive area. What if a car pulls up outside my condo complex (I'm in the front), and guys start getting out and loading their guns? With a crossbow, I could throw an AXE bomb to stun them, and then use my cross bow...a sword could only be thrown.
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: Pennsylvania
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As far as your original question is concerned, you can figure the stored energy by multiplying the draw weight by the distance over which that weight is applied. This is not a constant for either the compound bow or the crossbow, but you can make a rough estimate. But energy is not that important with a bow as long as you have enough to penetrate, so any bow and arrow designed for deer hunting should get the job done.
I wonder what your objection is to a gun. A cheap 12 gauge pump will give you multiple shots, and will be easier to wield in close quarters. I'd use bird shot rather than buckshot to minimize penetration of the walls.
A bow and arrow would be next to useless in a self defense situation. If you can't have a gun, your best bet is to have a plan to retreat to a safe part of your house, lock the doors, and call the cops. |
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| Jeremyhfht |
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 2:37 am Post subject: |
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Resident Psychologist
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 2247
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| Cold Fusion wrote: |
| Well, yeah, I was also thinking of getting a sword, but what if some guys start running up my stairs with guns? Would I just hurl myself from the top of the stairs at them and swing like a mad man? |
It's not uncommon for people to know nothing about fighting, but I still get insulted nevertheless. In closed quarters, moreso than a gun, a sword is absolutely deadly in the right hands. Then again so are your fists.
A simple tactical mind would know that hurling would be of no use. Lying in wait, on the other hand, always serves to give one the element of both surprise and victory. Since you apparently aren't much of a tactician, perhaps a sword really isn't for you.
| Harold14370 wrote: |
A bow and arrow would be next to useless in a self defense situation. If you can't have a gun, your best bet is to have a plan to retreat to a safe part of your house, lock the doors, and call the cops. |
I agree. Although personally I can think of a wide variety of possibilities with a sword or similar devices, this particular person is definitely best off running.
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| Lucifer |
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 4:52 am Post subject: |
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Joined: 14 Jan 2006
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Just curious, jeremy... don't you think a rapier is better than a katana in a home environment?
Katanas are slashing weapons, and this means you need room to wave it around... in a home there's doors, windows, walls, furniture... there's plenty of things and places that can block the moves or where the katana can get stuck.
FAI, let's say you're under a door frame. There's walls to your left, right and overhead. How do you slash?
In a home, you want to thrust, not slash. 
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| Neutrino |
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:51 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 978
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Get a tazer, a bow is too unreliable and risky in an emergency/self defense situation. |
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| Jeremyhfht |
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Resident Psychologist
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
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| Lucifer wrote: |
| Just curious, jeremy... don't you think a rapier is better than a katana in a home environment? |
A rapier doesn't provide any slashing required for enclosed environments. You can hold a katana so it's tip pointing backwards (behind you instead of in front) for even less movement room required. This limits your striking range by about 30-50%, but makes it possible to fight indoors.
I would give you an example image (the only place I've seen it elsewhere is in an old movie Equilibrium), but none appear to exist anymore.
| Quote: |
Katanas are slashing weapons, and this means you need room to wave it around... in a home there's doors, windows, walls, furniture... there's plenty of things and places that can block the moves or where the katana can get stuck. |
*sigh* as I explained above, that "flaw" is easily rectified. Also, a Katana is not only a slashing weapon, but can also be used for stabbing.
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 463
Location: In the circuitous haze of my mind
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I was exaggerating!!! I am likely one of the best people at indoor tactics around!! I already planned every single possible type of assault that could occur at my place, but I still want some form of projectile. And how would it be useless? Its meant to kill deer with stealth. If I were to hear guys running up the stairs, I would just quickly shoot a shot around the corner...then retreat back to another place, and wait with a sword for the rest to come by.
Besides home defense, I also like archery. A gun is too simple..you aim and shoot. I know sniping guns and other can get challenging, but I would likely get arrested if I were to go into the open and shoot at things. While on the other hand, there are many places to use a bow.
As for a gun...unfortunately certain people that I am living with would not allow it. And as for tasers...their not meant to kill, and I wold have to hold in on him for to long, I would get killed. Tasers are only good for portable protection, or when you only have one assailant, and you manage to surprise him.
Thanks for the advice though; but, wouldn't the arrow reach its maximum velocity 3/4 of the way through? Would the length after that add to its pounds of force?
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Cold Fusion wrote: |
| Thanks for the advice though; but, wouldn't the arrow reach its maximum velocity 3/4 of the way through? Would the length after that add to its pounds of force? |
The maximum acceleration (not velocity) would be at the position where the bow's peak draw weight occurs. For a crossbow or recurve, that would be when it is drawn all the way back. For a compound, it is part way back before the letoff point. But the arrow would continue to accelerate after that point.
As a rough estimate, I think you could use the peak draw weight multiplied by the draw length for a comparison. Some of the energy will be wasted in accelerating the bow limbs. To really compare, you would have to know how fast the bolt or arrow is traveling and the weight of the bolt or arrow. That data might be available somewhere if you look around. |
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:41 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 463
Location: In the circuitous haze of my mind
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Thanks, but what sort of device could I use to measure a small objects velocity? Also, kind of off topic, but do you know where I can buy a "force pad"? A plastic pad that you hit with whatever, and it tells you the pounds created, so you can calculate your PSI.
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| Harold14370 |
| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 2:06 am Post subject: |
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Forum Professor
Joined: 13 Apr 2007
Posts: 1244
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Cold Fusion wrote: |
| Thanks, but what sort of device could I use to measure a small objects velocity? Also, kind of off topic, but do you know where I can buy a "force pad"? A plastic pad that you hit with whatever, and it tells you the pounds created, so you can calculate your PSI. |
You can get a chronograph for around $100 to measure the arrow speed. I don't know of any "force pads." The following web sites may help you select a crossbow or bow for your purpose
http://www.crossbow.com/choosing-crossbows.htm
http://www.huntersfriend.com/bowselection.htm |
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| Neutrino |
| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 7:40 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
Posts: 978
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Cold Fusion wrote: |
| A gun is too simple..you aim and shoot. I know sniping guns and other can get challenging, but I would likely get arrested if I were to go into the open and shoot at things. |
Wait a sec - isn't your question about self defense? How is "too simple" a problem? This is defending your home, life, and family(?) we're talking about here, not sport hunting. Isn't simple a good thing? |
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| Cold Fusion |
| Posted: Thu Sep 13, 2007 5:03 pm Post subject: |
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Forum Bachelors Degree
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Posts: 463
Location: In the circuitous haze of my mind
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I also want to do archery with it, and there aren't any shooting ranges around here, and even if there were, they would need to be over a half mile to pose a fun challenge. With a bow, you can get a nice challenge at under 500 feet, due the the drop off rates and various factors that need to be considered.
Thanks for that website and your help. I think I know what I want.
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| Cat1981(England) |
| Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2007 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Forum Ph.D.
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 827
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| Cold Fusion wrote: |
| I think I know what I want. |
It might be what you want but it's not what you need (professional help). Crossbow's, swords, gun's, bats, axe bomb - were do you live Baghdad ? Just give them the fu**ing TV.
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